Problem I have with Dak and our Offense

WillieBeamen

BoysfanfromNY
Messages
15,266
Reaction score
43,967
Dak did against the Vikings as well. Small sample size be damned.

I’m not advocating for him to make $40M. But he’s just not the awful QB that some think he is around here.
And lost

didnt make the play at the end of the game to get the team in the EZ


Stop making excuses for him. He has very few good performances against these top defenses over the past 3 seasons. Stop caping
 

WillieBeamen

BoysfanfromNY
Messages
15,266
Reaction score
43,967
ummm ... "He consistently has receivers open but is not seeing the field well AT ALL" is a rather odd to say about a guy with a sub 2% INT rate

unless by last QB you mean Weeden ... Tony nor Dak have not been the "problem" - it's weirdo defensive schemes and cowardly STs and JG's offense

it's not by accident Dak and Tony's career numbers are so close Tony with a higher TD%, Dak the lower INT%
http://www.nfl.com/player/dakprescott/2555260/careerstats ... 97.0 rating
http://www.nfl.com/player/tonyromo/2505354/careerstats ... 97.1 rating

BTW, the only timing system QBs to ever deliver better sustained numbers are Wilson and Breez
The only WCO QBs to do as well or better are Brady (sort fo ... rub) and Rodgers
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

note, some time next year Mahomes will top them all
1. Stop comparing Romo and Dak’s career numbers. They played in different eras. Their first year starting is a decade apart.

2. Romo spent most of his career with no run game and a weak offensive line.

3. Romo had to endure Garrett’s terrible play calling for the first 5 years of his career


Romo by far is a superior player
 

TheMarathonContinues

Well-Known Member
Messages
75,465
Reaction score
69,900
And lost

didnt make the play at the end of the game to get the team in the EZ


Stop making excuses for him. He has very few good performances against these top defenses over the past 3 seasons. Stop caping

Here's another stupid narrative.

What did all of the great quarterbacks in the league do against top defenses?

You want to know what Aaron Rodgers did agains the 49ers?

1 touchdown and 104 yards....

Pat Mahomes is one guy who seems to have success regardless of the opposing teams defenses......

But where is this long list of guys who always dominate against good defenses? You guys keep regurgitating crap you hear on the internet and have nothing to back it up.
 

CB61

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,311
Reaction score
5,901
First off Im a Dak fan I like the kid and who he is and how he handles himself. I dont see him being a elite QB at this time and Im not a fan of over paying him. That being said he will get paid around 33 to 35 mill with heavy guarantees. Just my feeling
The problem with our offense is that we poured it on against every bad defense we played and shut off against any decent to good defense. Saints, Packers, Bears, Bills, Vikes, Pats and even second game against a banged up Philly Def. We couldnt score. So the question is were we just that more talented to overtake the lesser defenses or is our scheme so poor that better teams we weren't able to rely just totally on skill alone.
I mean for a team to score so many points but do nothing ( except in garbage time which made things look better in a few games)against the better defenses I feel is a cause for concern. What are your thoughts on this? Was it scheme? Dak? Coaching? Or us overvaluing our talent?
CULTURE !!!!! That's not the whole problem but I think it's one of the main issues hopefully that has been resolved and there's a new era in Dallas? I'm still leery of Jerry Jones sticking his nose in this we're about to find out a few things next season was the real problem Jason Garrett? Or Jerry Jones? Or like you said did we overvalue our talent? Too many others to mention would take too long but we're soon going to find out I think they got themselves in such a rut not being able to score it affected their psyche, the slow starts he'll the first Washington game was way too close for me and then the one performance where I think we really shined actually there was two of them were against the Rams and the first Philly game hopefully Mike McCarthy watches film of those two games or has watched film of those two games and see what there is to build on especially with the defense the offense was definitely not a problem those two wins but consistency has always been our problem last few years
 

gjkoeppen

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
3,327
I think you are misunderstanding to what level Garrett took it to.

I understand that execution is a part of any team sport, but in Garrett's era, it did not matter if there was a mismatch that gave the opposing team a big advantage, he REFUSED to change his scheme or game plan to counter act it.

The absolute easiest example of this is 2017 game of Dallas vs Atlanta. Despite Chad Green being absolutely over-matched by Adrian Clayborne, Garrett never adjusted and left Green out there all alone to get his butt kicked. And it was not like Adrian Clayborne was a great passrusher either as in that SINGLE GAME, Adrian recorded more sacks (6.0) than he had in 5 of his 7 "full seasons" (2 seasons he played 3 or less games). He only beat that SINGLE GAME sack total by his Rookie Year (7.5) and his 2017 year (9.5). (How mediocre are you to get 6 sacks in a game and still fail to hit double digits for the season?)

Another example of the refusing to help players via schemes like the use of "Rub Routes" in the NFL. It's not a every play tactic for most teams, but where you would see it about a handful of times a game for most teams, we may have seen it a handful of times in a decade.

I am not suggesting that players are completely free of blame by not being able to beat the man in front of them. What I am saying is that Garrett was incapable or too stubborn to adjust when a player was over-matched, or regularly implementing a scheme or tactic to put players in better positions to succeed.

I understand you have a problem with Garrett's scheme, but it doesn't matter what scheme a coach uses there is still one thing that doesn't change and that is you still have to beat the man in front of you if the play is going to work. Beating the man in front of you has zero to do with what scheme you are running, it has to do with every player doing what his assignment is regardless of what scheme is used.
.
 

SackMaster

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,181
Reaction score
7,023
I understand you have a problem with Garrett's scheme, but it doesn't matter what scheme a coach uses there is still one thing that doesn't change and that is you still have to beat the man in front of you if the play is going to work. Beating the man in front of you has zero to do with what scheme you are running, it has to do with every player doing what his assignment is regardless of what scheme is used.
.
I find it hard to believe you REALLY believe that.

I find it strange that you believe that there is no such thing as mismatches and that at the NFL level, schemes have little to do with the success of the players and teams.

It's not like a new coach can come in and show significant improvement with mostly the same players. It just doesn't happen...

It's not like you would bracket a really good WR you are playing against. No, let the CB go 1-on-1 even though he is 4" shorter, 20 lbs lighter, and much slower and if the CB can't singlehandedly cover the WR buy himself, you'll just lose the game.

It's not like you would start helping a OT with TE blocking help or RB chip blocks when the DE is just clearly better than the OT. Nope, let your QB take excessive hits, and lose the game.

Its not like teams would ever disguise coverages to try and confuse the opposing QB into a mistake. Nope, play the same coverages the vast majority of the time and let mediocre QBs look great against you .... and lose the game.

I understand now. Football is ONLY about beating the man in front of you. And if you are physically or mentally outmatched, too bad you just cost the team the game.

That is when men are men and they walk 13 miles in the snow to their kindergarten class, uphill, both ways.
:lmao2::facepalm:
 

gjkoeppen

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
3,327
I find it hard to believe you REALLY believe that.

I find it strange that you believe that there is no such thing as mismatches and that at the NFL level, schemes have little to do with the success of the players and teams.

It's not like a new coach can come in and show significant improvement with mostly the same players. It just doesn't happen...

It's not like you would bracket a really good WR you are playing against. No, let the CB go 1-on-1 even though he is 4" shorter, 20 lbs lighter, and much slower and if the CB can't singlehandedly cover the WR buy himself, you'll just lose the game.

It's not like you would start helping a OT with TE blocking help or RB chip blocks when the DE is just clearly better than the OT. Nope, let your QB take excessive hits, and lose the game.

Its not like teams would ever disguise coverages to try and confuse the opposing QB into a mistake. Nope, play the same coverages the vast majority of the time and let mediocre QBs look great against you .... and lose the game.

I understand now. Football is ONLY about beating the man in front of you. And if you are physically or mentally outmatched, too bad you just cost the team the game.

That is when men are men and they walk 13 miles in the snow to their kindergarten class, uphill, both ways.
:lmao2::facepalm:

Everything you just said are all different types of SCHEMES. Again it doesn't matter what SCHEME a coach decides to use, the one thing that ALL schemes have in common is in order for them to work, play after play is every player has to do his job or in other words beat the man in front of them. This isn't some complex mathematical equation in some scientific experiment, it's very simple football 101.
.
 

SackMaster

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,181
Reaction score
7,023
Everything you just said are all different types of SCHEMES. Again it doesn't matter what SCHEME a coach decides to use, the one thing that ALL schemes have in common is in order for them to work, play after play is every player has to do his job or in other words beat the man in front of them. This isn't some complex mathematical equation in some scientific experiment, it's very simple football 101.
.
OK Jason Garrett.
:thumbup:
 

jnday

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,292
Reaction score
11,422
Honestly I don't see how you guys can live with this much hate in your heart towards Dak.

I mean, how can you have a differing opinion than the forum police and look at yourselves in the mirror?

So much hate. So many clandestine agendas. So sad and disheartening. I just don't know if I can respect anyone who isn't madly in love with Dak as our quarterback.

Can't we just stop hating each other and come together around our franchise QB?

This is the Dallas Cowboys. There is no room for individual thought. We need complete uniformity. We need to stop hating
Accusing the anti-Dak fans of hate is kind of silly. I don’t think the fans hates him at all on a personal level. I know I don’t. He seems like a good kid. I do hate the possibility of Dak being the starter in Dallas because his obvious inconsistency, inaccuracies and poor pocket presence will haunt the team for the next decade. Nothing about Dak’s level of play has changed my mind and it never will. I see Dak as a player that the team has settled for instead of making an attempt to obtain an elite QB. Dak will never be a top QB , but many fans will constantly say that he is.
 

gjkoeppen

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
3,327
OK Jason Garrett.
:thumbup:

You're biggest concern was the scheme Garrett had used. I haven't advocated ANY scheme. I've just said very SIMPLE common sense that regardless what scheme a coach decides to use, every player HAS TO DO his assignment for any play to work. Another way of saying that is beat the man in front of you. This is EXTREMELY very basic football 101 and if you can't see that then you need to pick a hobby more suited to your knowledge like hop scotch.
.
 

SackMaster

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,181
Reaction score
7,023
You're biggest concern was the scheme Garrett had used. I haven't advocated ANY scheme. I've just said very SIMPLE common sense that regardless what scheme a coach decides to use, every player HAS TO DO his assignment for any play to work. Another way of saying that is beat the man in front of you. This is EXTREMELY very basic football 101 and if you can't see that then you need to pick a hobby more suited to your knowledge like hop scotch.
.
It's OK Jason. Obviously you have been offended since you lack the ability to understand. Enjoy coaching the Giants offense, and please stay stubborn when DLaw is continually knocking Danny on his butt.
:clap:
 

StarBoyz83

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,281
Reaction score
11,839
My only issue is why did the offense only show up like 40% of the time this season?
 

gjkoeppen

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
3,327
It's OK Jason. Obviously you have been offended since you lack the ability to understand. Enjoy coaching the Giants offense, and please stay stubborn when DLaw is continually knocking Danny on his butt.
:clap:

EVERYBODY sees that because you lack ANY football knowledge that all you can mustard up is calling me Garrett. .You are so pathetic.
.
 

Aviano90

Go Seahawks!!!
Messages
16,758
Reaction score
24,485
And lost

didnt make the play at the end of the game to get the team in the EZ


Stop making excuses for him. He has very few good performances against these top defenses over the past 3 seasons. Stop caping


1. Stop comparing Romo and Dak’s career numbers. They played in different eras. Their first year starting is a decade apart.

2. Romo spent most of his career with no run game and a weak offensive line.

3. Romo had to endure Garrett’s terrible play calling for the first 5 years of his career


Romo by far is a superior player

Perfect example of the hypocrisy of Dak-hating, Romo-lovers. In back to back posts you have a call to stop making excuses for Dak, followed by excuses for Romo. Brilliant!
 

SackMaster

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,181
Reaction score
7,023
EVERYBODY sees that because you lack ANY football knowledge that all you can mustard up is calling me Garrett. .You are so pathetic.
.
I appreciate all the kind words and the thoughtful conversations. I can't wait until our next interaction.
:thumbup:
 

GMO415

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,984
Reaction score
25,667
You have ZERO idea if how this offense will look like in 2020. It won't be the same.
 

Number1

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,690
Reaction score
1,326
1. Stop comparing Romo and Dak’s career numbers. They played in different eras. Their first year starting is a decade apart.

2. Romo spent most of his career with no run game and a weak offensive line.

3. Romo had to endure Garrett’s terrible play calling for the first 5 years of his career


Romo by far is a superior player

Willie, as usually you're talking about things that didn't happen. And commenting as if your emotional condition is empirical evidence

In their last 2 years full seasons, (or as close as Tony came to a full seasons ... 15 games each year):

Dak
66.3 %, 7.8 YPA, 4.6 TD%, 1.7 INT %, 9.5 20/+%

Tony
66.6 %, 7.8 YPA, 6.7 TD%, 2.0 INT %, 9.6 20/+%

note between the years 2013-14 Tony and 2018-19 Dak there was a change in OCs and both had running games producing 4.6 YPC
it was JG's play action deep system

other than TD% Tony did not out perform Dak, and I'd note Tony was throwing to TD machines in their prime named Wit and Dez that he's played with for years

you can fault Dak on touch, most of his INTs came off the hands of his targets ... most of Tony's INTs were simply brian dead
so, just how was Tony "seeing the field" better?
 
Last edited:

Aviano90

Go Seahawks!!!
Messages
16,758
Reaction score
24,485
Willie, as usually you're talking about things that didn't happen. And commenting as if your emotional condition is empirical evidence

In their last 2 years full seasons, (or as close as Tony came to a full seasons ... 15 games each year):

Dak
66.3 %, 7.8 YPA, 4.6 TD%, 1.7 INT %, 9.5 20/+%

Tony
66.6 %, 7.8 YPA, 6.7 TD%, 2.0 INT %, 9.6 20/+%

note between the years 2013-14 Tony and 2018-19 Dak there was a change in OCs and both had running games producing 4.6 YPC
it was JG's play action deep system

other than TD% Tony did not out perform Dak, and I'd note Tony was throwing to TD machines in their prime named Wit and Dez that he's played with for years

you can fault Dak on touch, most of his INTs came off the hands of his targets ... most of Tony's INTs were simply brian dead
so, just how was Tony "seeing the field" better?
Another thing about TD% is Tony has admitted on air during a TV broadcast that he padded his TD stats by throwing in the red zone against defensive looks that should have dictated to run the ball. He said Murray would question him on the sidelines afterwards and he would play dumb.

That opened my eyes as to why we always seemed to force the ball to Dez as the first option instead of pounding Murray more often.
 
Top