Q&A with Arizona CB Antoine Cason

[theogt]

Thats called technique. Cason is light years ahead of Talib there.

Desean actually put up some quite nice yardage in the battles with Cason and Jordy was woefully underrated for playing speed. He may well be the sleeper of this craptastic WR class.

Again the worry with Cason is that he is too close to fully developed without upside.

Based on likability, professionalism and game tape Cason is a better player but no scout puts as much weight in that as they should. But the combine showed Talib had the better raw physical tools which for some reason you can't seem to acknowledge.

Whatever the virtues of Jordy Nelson are, speed is not one of them.

I pretty much agree with everything except the bold part. Talib has 11 ints in his last 23 games and the Nelson TD was the only one he gave up all year.

INTs per pass attempt:
Cason - 0.68
Talib - 0.53

PDs per pass attempt:
Cason - 0.83
Talib - 0.38

Cason has better playmaking abilities because of his instincts, size/athleticism, and ball skills.

I think that is a concern yes.

Good player but not great and may only be the 4th CB here as a rookie which is pretty low on the totem pole for say pick 22.

No, it's not a good comparison at all. Carpenter wasn't the most productive linebacker coming out of college. Cason is the most productive corner coming out of college. Carpenter was a "solid" pick, whereas Cason is a "playmaker" pick.

Some of you yahwho's just amaze me.

You grab a bag of corn chips and down a 6-pack of bud on a Saturday, and watch football till midnight and you think you're an NFL scout.

Some of you guys who pick up a draft magazine, skim it, and think you're a draft expert really amaze me.

 

[tyke1doe]

So you don't watch games? You just wait for the draft guides to come out and then give your opinion? Maybe you need to form your own opinion and weigh them along with other experts instead of spewing whatever comes out of Mel Kiper mouth. By the way, if they were truly experts you think they would be with an NFL team already. The numbers don't lie. I'm sorry it pisses you off that Cason has better numbers playing against better competition than your pet cat Kiper told you to pull for.

Actually, a while back, Kiper was offered a position with the Baltimore Colts. He declined because he wanted to build himself into a draft guru.

Not saying that I don't agree with you that the "experts" don't always have it right. Just wanted to point out that Kiper was offered a position with an NFL team.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This gets said a lot on these boards. Michael, I would put more stock into some of the friends and posters I know than some of the people who publish these guides, or even draft players.

I know guys who have been right about players more often than some people pulling an NFL paycheck.

I haven't seen a lot of these guys play, but I've seen Cason play and I see a very smooth, athletic guy who makes plays. He's not the athletic freak that Talib is, but he has outstanding athletic ability. I'm not blind.

This is a very good post, IMO.

I recall the 05 and 02 drafts on this board. In 05, there were a great many on this board who were completely against Ware at 11, especially early on. There were also a great many who absolutly had to have Roy Williams at at 6.

There is something to be said for people who have watched specific players play IMO.

 

[zeromaster]

Yeah, the safest place to be is the probably the booth.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

This gets said a lot on these boards. Michael, I would put more stock into some of the friends and posters I know than some of the people who publish these guides, or even draft players.

I know guys who have been right about players more often than some people pulling an NFL paycheck.

I haven't seen a lot of these guys play, but I've seen Cason play and I see a very smooth, athletic guy who makes plays. He's not the athletic freak that Talib is, but he has outstanding athletic ability. I'm not blind.

Is Cason a good player?

You bet.

Is there a consensus among experts that he's a solid first rounder? No.

And that's where some are getting their noses bent out of joint because others aren't convinced that he's worth of a first round pick.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

This is a very good post, IMO.

I recall the 05 and 02 drafts on this board. In 05, there were a great many on this board who were completely against Ware at 11, especially early on. There were also a great many who absolutly had to have Roy Williams at at 6.

There is something to be said for people who have watched specific players play IMO.

But most of the time ABQ you really can't tell how a player, especially a CB is playing most of the time... Can you tell how a QB is throwing the ball or how a back is running? Sure, but trying to watch most positions on the football field through a TV screen is an exercise in futility-- Unless you have unlimited time to break down all the film and watch each and every player. That's why I enjoyed Breer's comments during the season. Here's a guy that is actually watching and rewatching the games. Adamjt13 does the same. I think so does Rich. To me that's a much more accurate analysis of how a player is doing as opposed to watching a game leisurely while drinking a cold one and eating CBZ's pea salad.

Hey, I do give GoldenRichards props, he's using stats to help support his argument that Cason is the best corner out there. Do I think those have merit-- sure. But I also think that corner is one of those positions where stats don't tell the whole story because the corner is so reliant on the other people around him-- especially the pass rush.

Secondly, and JT hit the nail on the head... it's not necessarily about where these guys are at now on the competitive scale, but where they will be in 3 years-- with proper coaching.

You've got...


McKelvin from Troy
Cromartie-Rodgers from Tennessee St
Jenkins from South Florida

and Cason from Arizona.

Who do you think has received the best coaching so far?

And that's something that has to be considered. Just like JT said, many believe that Cason has maxed out his ability. He's at the top of the curve. He's getting the most out of his athletic ability with his advanced technical ability-- probably much of it due to superior coaching.

So how high is the limit for the other guys who have equal if not more athletic ability and there technique is weak at this point because their coaching was suspect?

That's what has to be considered in the equation also. Parcells alluded to it several times. It's not where these players will be in September but where they'll be in January.

 

[theogt]

So, basically, Michael, your answer is, "No, I don't have a reason why I think he's a 2nd rounder, other than I read it in a couple draft mags."

Thanks for sharing what you've read in draft magazines.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

So, basically, Michael, your answer is, "No, I don't have a reason why I think he's a 2nd rounder, other than I read it in a couple draft mags."

Thanks for sharing what you've read in draft magazines.

1. Since when is basing an opinion on what trusted experts say is wrong?

2. Why is my position any less relevent than your own? At least I'm basing mine on what people say that spend their working lives judging said players and are paid for that work. What do you got?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Here is a great pic of Antoine. Looks like DeSean Jackson he's defending.

The guy who e-mailed this into SI sounds like Hos.

Antoine Cason wins the Thorpe award, has the second-best overall combine of all the corners in the draft and the media seems to think a bunch of small school corners who ran a good track meet (the combine) will be better pros? Antoine also raised $7,000 for cancer research on campus this year after his grandfather passed away from the disease. You won't find a better corner in this draft or person. I wish the media would pick up on this.

Michael Ginzl
Phoenix

 

[jterrell]

So, basically, Michael, your answer is, "No, I don't have a reason why I think he's a 2nd rounder, other than I read it in a couple draft mags."

Thanks for sharing what you've read in draft magazines.

Actually his reasoning was that the vast majority of scouts felt he was a solid second round guy.

He tends to believe pro scouts(including the Cowboys) more than he does you. Not exactly sure why that bothers you so much.

No one is suggesting Cason sucks and should not be drafted. What they are suggesting is to sit the pom-poms down and draft the best player for the Cowboys not the guy we personally "like" the most.

If Mike Jenkins and Antoine Cason are both sitting there at 22 and we take Cason I'd be terribly sad. One guy is more polished and the other is light years ahead in raw speed and athleticism.

And this college production stuff is just that. Stuff. It is nice but there are a lot of guys with great, even excellent, college production who do jack squat as a pro.

I knew a guy who watched a ton of film in college. He was am above average athlete. He left TT as the all time SWC interceptions leader.. a record he still holds to this day. But he was unable to make the Bears even with our former coach as the new DB coach there.

The NFL really is about physical freaks. They just assume guys will learn to watch film and grasp technique because they fill they can beat that into almost anyone.

I guarantee you we aren't trading for Pacman because he has great professionalism.

 

[Chief]

If Mike Jenkins and Antoine Cason are both sitting there at 22 and we take Cason I'd be terribly sad. One guy is more polished and the other is light years ahead in raw speed and athleticism.

But JT, off-the-field character has to factor in, too. Jenkins has a rap sheet.

I knew a guy who watched a ton of film in college. He was am above average athlete. He left TT as the all time SWC interceptions leader.. a record he still holds to this day. But he was unable to make the Bears even with our former coach as the new DB coach there.

Nice Tracy Saul reference.

 

[Hoofbite]

I pretty much agree with everything except the bold part. Talib has 11 ints in his last 23 games and the Nelson TD was the only one he gave up all year.


Aqib Talib

Had 92 passes targeted into his area, with 47 being caught by the opposition (51.09%) for 459 yards (9.77-yard average per completion/4.99 yards per pass attempt) and a touchdown…Made 61 of his plays vs. the pass and 23 others vs. the run…Rerouted the opposing receivers on 27 plays, as he made six goal-line tackles…Credited with 252 third-down stops and two more on fourth-down activity.
2007: Started all year at left cornerback and also held the distinction of starting on both offense and defense in the same game vs. Kansas State…Ranked sixth on the squad with 66 tackles (42 solos), including 3.5 stops for losses of 8 yards…Deflected thirteen passes and had five interceptions, as he set a school season-record with 195 yards in returns and tied another mark with two pass thefts for touchdowns…On offense, he caught eight of thirteen passes thrown to him, good for 182 yards (22.8 avg) and four touchdowns…Also rushed once for a 6-yard loss…Returned two punts for 21 yards (10.5 avg).

10 GP; 10 GS; 42 TT, 2 TFL, 6 INT, 22 PBU, 1 QBH; Suspended 2 games for violating team rules. Played in and started 10 games, second-team All-America, All-Big 12 First Team in '06.11 GP; 9 GS; 54 TT, 4 TFL, 2 INT, 8 PBU, 2 FF; An All-Big 12 honorable-mention in '05. Redshirt in '04.

That is not the only time he was beaten for a TD. He gave up 2 against Nebraska.

 

[theogt]

1. Since when is basing an opinion on what trusted experts say is wrong?

2. Why is my position any less relevent than your own? At least I'm basing mine on what people say that spend their working lives judging said players and are paid for that work. What do you got?

It's not your opinion. It's their opinion. You're just mimicking whatever they say. Right or wrong, it is what it is.

 

[Hostile]

OK... so now you're telling me that a corner operates totally on his own within a defense? His play is not influenced in one-iota by any of his teammates?

Some of you yahwho's just amaze me.

You grab a bag of corn chips and down a 6-pack of bud on a Saturday, and watch football till midnight and you think you're an NFL scout.

When someone pays you for your opinion, then I'll take notice. So please just scan in a copy of a check from folks buying your draft guide.

But your Corn Chips and 6 pack of Bud opinions are more valid?

:wink2:

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But most of the time ABQ you really can't tell how a player, especially a CB is playing most of the time... Can you tell how a QB is throwing the ball or how a back is running? Sure, but trying to watch most positions on the football field through a TV screen is an exercise in futility-- Unless you have unlimited time to break down all the film and watch each and every player. That's why I enjoyed Breer's comments during the season. Here's a guy that is actually watching and rewatching the games. Adamjt13 does the same. I think so does Rich. To me that's a much more accurate analysis of how a player is doing as opposed to watching a game leisurely while drinking a cold one and eating CBZ's pea salad.

Hey, I do give GoldenRichards props, he's using stats to help support his argument that Cason is the best corner out there. Do I think those have merit-- sure. But I also think that corner is one of those positions where stats don't tell the whole story because the corner is so reliant on the other people around him-- especially the pass rush.

Secondly, and JT hit the nail on the head... it's not necessarily about where these guys are at now on the competitive scale, but where they will be in 3 years-- with proper coaching.

You've got...


McKelvin from Troy
Cromartie-Rodgers from Tennessee St
Jenkins from South Florida

and Cason from Arizona.

Who do you think has received the best coaching so far?

And that's something that has to be considered. Just like JT said, many believe that Cason has maxed out his ability. He's at the top of the curve. He's getting the most out of his athletic ability with his advanced technical ability-- probably much of it due to superior coaching.

So how high is the limit for the other guys who have equal if not more athletic ability and there technique is weak at this point because their coaching was suspect?

That's what has to be considered in the equation also. Parcells alluded to it several times. It's not where these players will be in September but where they'll be in January.

Well, first of all, I think your selling Pops' Pea Salad, a bit short. But for the most part, I agree with you. It's very difficult to understand what has transpired across the whole field. What coverage was called etc. However, there are times when you can have opportunity to watch an isolated play or an overhead of what the defense did on a particular play. Still, it's not enough to give a good picture. This is why I give considerable credability to people who have actually watched certain players play.

For me, if you break down all of the CBs available, I see it this way.

Cromartie - Largest upside at CB
McKelvin - Probably follows
Talib - He would be next
Jenkins - He might end up being a Safety
Cason - He too might end up being a Safety.

Now, this is nothing but how I see each players upside at CB.

Cason is probably the best suited of all of these guys to contribute early at CB. I would also guess that (baring injury) Cason has the best chance to be a good player 5 years down the road behind Cromartie.

There are others who I like a bit later as well but of the top 5, that's kinda how I see it.

 

[Goldenrichards83]

Being a top corner in the NFL is about smarts, atheletism, instincts and technique and Cason has all of these attributes but I think what separates him from all the top corners is his work ethic. He loves too study and breakdown film. His coaches has said Antoine is like a coach on the field so not only will he get better he will make others better.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

But your Corn Chips and 6 pack of Bud opinions are more valid?

:wink2:

No, not at all.

I'm mixing my corn chip thoughts with what guys that are saying that spend their lives doing this stuff.

No Hos, I'm not say my corn chips are any better than yours or my beer colder.

 

[theogt]

He tends to believe pro scouts(including the Cowboys) more than he does you. Not exactly sure why that bothers you so much.

I couldn't care less if he believes me or not. I asked why he thought Cason was a 2nd rounder and the only answer was "I read it in a draft magazine." That's fine. But don't expect anyone to care what your opinion is if all you do is repeat what's in a draft magazine.

What they are suggesting is to sit the pom-poms down and draft the best player for the Cowboys not the guy we personally "like" the most.

And my opinion is that Cason is the #1 corner in this draft.

If Mike Jenkins and Antoine Cason are both sitting there at 22 and we take Cason I'd be terribly sad. One guy is more polished and the other is light years ahead in raw speed and athleticism.

Really? Jenkins is light years ahead in raw speed and athleticism?

Then why was his Combine performance not much better and in some cases worse than Cason's?

Mike Jenkins:
40 Yrd Dash: 4.38
20 Yrd Dash: 2.53
10 Yrd Dash: 1.47
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 18
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 09'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.40
3-Cone Drill: 7.21

Antoine Cason:
40 Yrd Dash: 4.45
20 Yrd Dash: 2.53
10 Yrd Dash: 1.51
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
Vertical Jump: 35 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'08"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.08
3-Cone Drill: 7.07

The red portions are where Cason has a BETTER OR EQUAL metric.

Light years? Really? Light years?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

It's not your opinion. It's their opinion. You're just mimicking whatever they say. Right or wrong, it is what it is.

Their opinion makes the most sense to me. They say he's a borderline 1st round pick.

I use the same train of thought with most everything that I haven't invested a lot of personal time or study on-- the opinion of experts in the field.

Are those experts right all the time? No. But I think it's a place to start that makes the most sense rather than flying around willy-nilly making decisions and taking action based solely on my limited experience.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I couldn't care less if he believes me or not. I asked why he thought Cason was a 2nd rounder and the only answer was "I read it in a draft magazine." That's fine. But don't expect anyone to care what your opinion is if all you do is repeat what's in a draft magazine.

I certainly don't care.

For the love of God man, this is football, it's entertainment.

We're not trying to figure out how to rid the earth of crime or save social security.