Q&A with Arizona CB Antoine Cason

[Chief]

We're not trying to figure out how to rid the earth of crime or save social security.

Cason could do both of those things if you would just give him a chance!

 

[theogt]

Their opinion makes the most sense to me. They say he's a borderline 1st round pick.

I use the same train of thought with most everything that I haven't invested a lot of personal time or study on-- the opinion of experts in the field.

Are those experts right all the time? No. But I think it's a place to start that makes the most sense rather than flying around willy-nilly making decisions and taking action based solely on my limited experience.

There are scouting reports that have him as a clear cut 1st rounder. You're just arbitrarily picking certain reports over others for whatever reason. It's okay if you can't justify your reasoning. But it's humorous when you state so matter of factly that he's a 2nd round talent when you have no justification.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Cason could do both of those things if you would just give him a chance!

:laugh1:


You got me on that one Chief!

 

[MichaelWinicki]

There are scouting reports that have him as a clear cut 1st rounder. You're just arbitrarily picking certain reports over others for whatever reason. It's okay if you can't justify your reasoning. But it's humorous when you state so matter of factly that he's a 2nd round talent when you have no justification.

I thought I justified my reasoning. If Kiper calls him the 11th best corner, Ourlads and the US Today consider him the 4th best... and we have a slew of people saying things in between I don't think it's a large leap to think that he's a boderline 1st rounder.

You believe he's the best corner out there.

OK, give me your line of reasoning...

 

[Hostile]

No, not at all.

I'm mixing my corn chip thoughts with what guys that are saying that spend their lives doing this stuff.

No Hos, I'm not say my corn chips are any better than yours or my beer colder.

Ah, the old "I back the guys who ranked Ryan Leaf on equal ground as Peyton Manning" approach to Draft analysis.

In that case my apologies, no corn chips are necessary, there's already enough baloney.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ah, the old "I back the guys who ranked Ryan Leaf on equal ground as Peyton Manning" approach to Draft analysis.

In that case my apologies no corn chips are necessary, there's already enough baloney.

No one working a normal job with normal family responsibilities has the time to accurately grade all the players. It just isn't going to happen. Like you said even the experts get it wrong quite often-- the Leaf/Manning example being one of many. But to totally disregard an expert's opinion doesn't make sense to me.

 

[theogt]

I thought I justified my reasoning. If Kiper calls him the 11th best corner, Ourlads and the US Today consider him the 4th best... and we have a slew of people saying things in between I don't think it's a large leap to think that he's a boderline 1st rounder.

You believe he's the best corner out there.

OK, give me your line of reasoning...

I've outlined my reasoning before and it's certainly not based on what someone else said about him (except for regarding intangibles).

You can first look at his athleticism. It's there to see.

Height: 6002
Weight: 191
40 Yrd Dash: 4.45
20 Yrd Dash: 2.53
10 Yrd Dash: 1.51
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
Vertical Jump: 35 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'08"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.08
3-Cone Drill: 7.07

Good Combine numbers (better in just about every respect than Mike Jenkins') and it's readily apparent on tape. Those numbers are well-rounded. Good 40 time, 3-cone, shuttle, and broad jump. There are no holes. It's not like others that put up a flashy 40 time and then have a sub-par broad jump or vertical. He's above average in nearly every respect.

Then you look at his production. It was top notch against top notch competition.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113512

His opponents' have a QB rating of 24.7, with a YPA of 3.5 and a 32% completion rate. Add to that that he has more INTs and PDs combined per pass attempt than every top corner in this draft class.

Then you look at the intangibles. His work ethic and his demeanor. And from everything I've read about this guy he is a class act. Sort of a T-new type work ethic.

I look at 3 areas when considering a draft prospect: (1) athleticism, (2) college production, and (3) attitude/demeanor.

He's by far the best combination of all three in this draft.

 

[Hostile]

No one working a normal job with normal family responsibilities has the time to accurately grade all the players. It just isn't going to happen. Like you said even the experts get it wrong quite often-- the Leaf/Manning example being one of many. But to totally disregard an expert's opinion doesn't make sense to me.

To totally disregard mine makes no sense to me.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

To totally disregard mine makes no sense to me.

I'm not disregarding it.

I don't see a lot of difference between calling someone the best corner available and the say the 5th best corner available.

There's not a big difference there bud.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I've outlined my reasoning before and it's certainly not based on what someone else said about him (except for regarding intangibles).

You can first look at his athleticism. It's there to see.

Height: 6002
Weight: 191
40 Yrd Dash: 4.45
20 Yrd Dash: 2.53
10 Yrd Dash: 1.51
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
Vertical Jump: 35 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'08"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.08
3-Cone Drill: 7.07

Good Combine numbers (better in just about every respect than Mike Jenkins') and it's readily apparent on tape. Those numbers are well-rounded. Good 40 time, 3-cone, shuttle, and broad jump. There are no holes. It's not like others that put up a flashy 40 time and then have a sub-par broad jump or vertical. He's above average in nearly every respect.

Then you look at his production. It was top notch against top notch competition.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113512

His opponents' have a QB rating of 24.7, with a YPA of 3.5 and a 32% completion rate. Add to that that he has more INTs and PDs combined per pass attempt than every top corner in this draft class.

Then you look at the intangibles. His work ethic and his demeanor. And from everything I've read about this guy he is a class act. Sort of a T-new type work ethic.

I look at 3 areas when considering a draft prospect: (1) athleticism, (2) college production, and (3) attitude/demeanor.

He's by far the best combination of all three in this draft.

He does have a good combination of numbers... but I think he's benefitted far greater from consistent coaching than what several of the others have and he already has terrific technique. Some of the other have better athleticism and they don't have as good of technique.

If I'm drafting based upon future potential returns, I'm taking one of the other guys first because I think they have a greater chance of getting much better than they are now. I don't see Cason having that upwards potential.

 

[Hostile]

He does have a good combination of numbers... but I think he's benefitted far greater from consistent coaching than what several of the others have and he already has terrific technique. Some of the other have better athleticism and they don't have as good of technique.

If I'm drafting based upon future potential returns, I'm taking one of the other guys first because I think they have a greater chance of getting much better than they are now. I don't see Cason having that upwards potential.

Hate to tell you this, but the coaching here has not been good at all.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Hate to tell you this, but the coaching here has not been good at all.

Hey it may not have been, but you can't compare the program that Cason is coming from as compared to the small school guys.

 

[theogt]

He does have a good combination of numbers... but I think he's benefitted far greater from consistent coaching than what several of the others have and he already has terrific technique. Some of the other have better athleticism and they don't have as good of technique.

If I'm drafting based upon future potential returns, I'm taking one of the other guys first because I think they have a greater chance of getting much better than they are now. I don't see Cason having that upwards potential.

The only two guys you can really put ahead of Cason that have better athletic measurables are DRC and McKelvin.

The problem with McKelvin was that his college production was really subpar. He's not a first round candidate if he doesn't run that 4.3. If you look at the link on college production you can see that McKelvin is at the bottom of the pile on just about every metric. At that is against subpar talent. Yes, it's possible he may develop while in the pros, but that's a big risk you're taking. If he can't consistently dominate against weak competition in college, I don't see much reason to think he'll likely dominate in the NFL. McKelvin to me is easily the most overrated player in this draft. And it all started with Mike Mayock pimping him daily on NFL Network. Not too many people knew who he was before that. And that includes some of those draft "experts" you're talking about. He wasn't high on those boards until Mayock started his PR campaign.

As for DRC, I can see the argument for taking him over Cason. He has fantastic athletic measurables and was outstanding during Senior Bowl week and that game. I would be very happy taking him based on those two alone. But, like McKelvin, his college competition was subpar and he didn't dominate against that subar competition. For that reason, I give Cason the edge.

 

[theogt]

Hey it may not have been, but you can't compare the program that Cason is coming from as compared to the small school guys.

Never thought I'd see the day when someone would think coming from a small school was actually a plus for a draft prospect.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Cason could do both of those things if you would just give him a chance!

Careful Chief, you might end up pissing Chuck Norris off and then we are in for a whole world of trouble.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Casons production was awesome. He had less than 4 YPA against playing in the Pac-10 which is a passing league.

The only knock on him is you would like to see him run a tad bit better in the 40 but 4.45 is still very good.

 

[Hostile]

Hey it may not have been, but you can't compare the program that Cason is coming from as compared to the small school guys.

I don't. I've only compared him to Chris McAllister and I think he's better than Chris at the same stage of their lives.

You can't compare their level of competition to his either while you're at it.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Never thought I'd see the day when someone would think coming from a small school was actually a plus for a draft prospect.

Honestly Theogt I do give you credit for standing behind your convictions.

You're a good member here. I don't always agree with you but you're good member none-the-less.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't. I've only compared him to Chris McAllister and I think he's better than Chris at the same stage of their lives.

You can't compare their level of competition to his either while you're at it.

I was thinking about this the other day. I think that McAllister probably had better man skills then Cason has at simular stages but I do think the comparison is a good one. McAllister may have been a little bit thicker as well but I can't say that I remember for sure.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

1. Since when is basing an opinion on what trusted experts say is wrong?

That's the problem here, I think... Many of the people you're talking about are neither of those things.

If you were talking about real NFL scouts who get to watch coaching films, interview these kids, talk to their coaches, etc., you'd have a better point. But guys like Ourlads and whoever writes for Sporting News and plenty of others that just spout rushed opinions to sell magazines or web subscriptions are simply terrible.

I actually have less respect for the people who act like they know everything about every position when all they really do is parrot the various draft websites out there. The people who actually pay close attention to college players and aren't just using the game as background noise while they get tanked do have something to contribute as far as which players will and won't make it, IMO. Especially when they've watched football intently for 20 or 30 years.

For that matter, there are some people on here -- not all, of course -- who would have done a lot better job of drafting than the Dolphins or Raiders the last few years. And I mean that seriously.