QB changes around the league

[dckid]

Explain why Derek Carr will not be starting QB for the Raiders next season.

John Gruden does not like him. It's actually not a big secret.

 

[mattjames2010]

things aligned in that they were on the back-end of Smith's contract, he'd proven nothing more than efficient and at his ceiling, and Mahomes was available @ 10. Reid scouted and loved him but wasn't trading into the top 3-5. That's what the hell I'm talking about. Also Dak > Smith, younger, higher upside, and there's not a Mahomes to be had at a do-able cost.

Mahomes wasn't a consensus top 5 pick - why would he need to "trade up"? Again, nothing "aligned" here - Reid simply scouted the QBs better than the rest of the league. And Smith's prime mirrors Dak's.

What is "Dak's upside"? You really truly believe that Dak has shown he be a player that is a top 10 consistently every year? He's in his 4th year, it's getting around the time he starts to show this. He's been his usual inconsistent self this season - heck, if anything, he may have gotten WORSE in some regards. He's pressing now which has his turnover rate higher than usual.

Dak is a game manager - that's his upside. A player you put in who usually gives you low turnover rates and but not a lot of scoring. With this, you hope that other players around him can elevate their game - mostly on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Proof]

Mahomes wasn't a consensus top 5 pick - why would he need to "trade up"? Again, nothing "aligned" here - Reid simply scouted the QBs better than the rest of the league. And Smith's prime mirrors Dak's.

What is "Dak's upside"? You really truly believe that Dak has shown he be a player that is a top 10 consistently every year? He's in his 4th year, it's getting around the time he starts to show this. He's been his usual inconsistent self this season - heck, if anything, he may have gotten WORSE in some regards. He's pressing now which has his turnover rate higher than usual.

Dak is a game manager - that's his upside. A player you put in who usually gives you low turnover rates and but not a lot of scoring. With this, you hope that other players around him can elevate their game - mostly on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm not going to argue opinions with you on Dak's ceiling, it's incredibly clear. You can agree or not, but it's hardly the point. The bigger point is that whether you want to keep harping semantically on 'align' or otherwise landing a Mahomes type talent at pick ten (when you pick in the late 20's) is impossibly rare. But yes, if Dallas scouts a qb of his caliber and he's available at a digestible cost, by all means go and get him, and then trade Dak to recoup.

 

[dckid]

Trade him for who? Who is better for this team right now? You trolls sure show lack of football knowledge by listening to media heads that don't know anymore than the rest of us, just giving their opinion like we do. Stats don't lie, they're the basis of everything measurable in life.

He's better than and a much better leader than the #1 pick of the same draft...........lead in your opinions and stop being a follower.

Sorry guys, I think my post was a bit muddled. I believe it make sense to sign the guy we have because QB like Dak will be a hot commodity around the league. Raiders, Tampa, Tennessee,Chicago... there will be a bunch of teams who would pay him 30 million a year.
If Jerry really doesn't like Dak, getting two first round picks is not inconceivable. This has to be an organizational decision. Are the Cowboys ready to compete with the likes of GB, NO,Seattle, LAR, SF, Eagles? If our ceiling with this team including coaching staff is 7-9 to 10-6 and first round exit. a la the Bengals under Marvin Lewis than what are we doing?

 

[dckid]

It's not that easy to find quality NFL starters, so I can't imagine that many teams will have new starting QBs next year. A couple jump out at me. Trubisky was the 2nd overall pick a couple of years ago, and last year the Bears had their first strong season in years with him, so I can't imagine the Bears are going to bail on him now and invest heavily in someone new. Carr is a good QB in Oakland. Maybe not ideal, but players with his talent aren't available at the drop of a hat either.

OmerV, you make a good point but let me ask you this very straightforward question.
If you are the Bears, do you honestly expect to give Mitch a second contract? Be 100% honest on this. The Bears know they drafted a dud and will not under any circumstances pay that man. The Bears will be smart his offseason and trade for Foles. The Bears are built to win now.
Again I just want to repeat, I am not anti Dak. I was just stating there will be a lot of QB movement this off season, and we don't even know who will retire. Dak is a hot commodity for the Cowboys as an asset. I would be comfortable paying him we had a dynamic coach.. I am hoping Moore stays long term...

 

[mattjames2010]

I'm not going to argue opinions with you on Dak's ceiling, it's incredibly clear. You can agree or not, but it's hardly the point. The bigger point is that whether you want to keep harping semantically on 'align' or otherwise landing a Mahomes type talent at pick ten (when you pick in the late 20's) is impossibly rare. But yes, if Dallas scouts a qb of his caliber and he's available at a digestible cost, by all means go and get him, and then trade Dak to recoup.

....Dak's ceiling and what he is worth is hardly the point? I would say, in the context of this thread, it factors into the point lol

And no one is suggesting you find a generational talent QB only in the draft. The entire point is neither the 49ers or the Chiefs settled with mediocrity - they understood what they had at QB and that QB does not elevate a team. It doesn't matter who you bring in here at coaching, a QB either has it or they don't.

 

[Proof]

....Dak's ceiling and what he is worth is hardly the point? I would say, in the context of this thread, it factors into the point lol

And no one is suggesting you find a generational talent QB only in the draft. The entire point is neither the 49ers or the Chiefs settled with mediocrity - they understood what they had at QB and that QB does not elevate a team. It doesn't matter who you bring in here at coaching, a QB either has it or they don't.

hardly the point of THIS interaction. and we already don't agree so it's pointless. And it's easy to not settle on mediocrity when an amazing player presents himself affordably. Wake me when that happens.

 

[mattjames2010]

hardly the point of THIS interaction. and we already don't agree so it's pointless. And it's easy to not settle on mediocrity when an amazing player presents himself affordably. Wake me when that happens.

....this conversation didn't start with our interaction - it started with me addressing the first few comments that suggested we MUST sign Prescott because "it's hard finding a franchise QB"

You then responded to that. The entire point of my comment is that you don't settle on mediocrity, you always look to improve. You sure as hell don't get desperate and pay a middling QB near elite QB money because you fear a decade long drought at the QB position.

And LOL good teams find ways to seek out those great players and get a deal done. Again, you're not really justifying giving near elite money to middling players, other than desperation. I would say we are lucky you aren't running the team, but you and most of this board would behave a lot like Jerry already does.

 

[Proof]

....this conversation didn't start with our interaction - it started with me addressing the first few comments that suggested we MUST sign Prescott because "it's hard finding a franchise QB"

You then responded to that. The entire point of my comment is that you don't settle on mediocrity, you always look to improve. You sure as hell don't get desperate and pay a middling QB near elite QB money because you fear a decade long drought at the QB position.

And LOL good teams find ways to seek out those great players and get a deal done. Again, you're not really justifying giving near elite money to middling players, other than desperation. I would say we are lucky you aren't running the team, but you and most of this board would behave a lot like Jerry already does.

Yes I engaged you, trivially. You responded to it and so we've danced. So yes, I am speaking about OUR interaction and the KC / Mahomes specific situation and how it related. Things absolutely aligned and you took issue with me describing it that way. I don't agree with you that Dak is middling, I don't agree with much of your assessment at all which is why I didn't engage there any further. Just pointed out that KC getting Mahomes when, where, and how they did was fortuitous and not easy. It's not justification for doing anything else as an alternative, simply the point that it doesn't happen often. We are lucky I'm not running the team, I am just an opinionated fan, same as you. I realize it though.

 

[starfan1]

I am not interested in your opinion on Romo, you're simply not a good enough poster for me to care.

translation= he don’t think like me . If you don’t care don’t respond. Quite frankly your opinion of me carries as much relevance to me as this mornings flush

Take your Romo hate to another zone. You're attempting to derail. If you can't make proper points, it's okay to just shut up.

And you can heed your own advice with your apparent Dak hate lol.

Quite frankly everything I said is relevant just cause it don’t fit your agenda too bad. Dak is top 5 this year in many important QB statistical categories. Im going to carry on my support of dak as he will turn out to be a huge player in our future and will lmao at the counseling some of yall may need. you may want to try an eagles forum if yall hate your current QB.

Its not my money so i don't care but he will be signed and it it will start at 33 mil and work up.Whether that's franchise tag or yearly salary.

 

[blueblood70]

No way the Jags cut foles im sure his money alone say they give him a shot, he never got a shot got hurt what after one qtr, what part of his money is guaranteed?..i guess they could trade but why? Foles better then Dak? lol go get him at 20 per its beter then 35 isnt it? ) take the 15 saved give it to Amari..

Carr is gone for sure or do they just a groomer?

Denver just picked up a guy so im a big maybe..

and why would panther do anything new , cam could be gone but they have Allen and Grier, they are NOT in the draft market IMO

 

[mattjames2010]

Yes I engaged you, trivially. You responded to it and so we've danced. So yes, I am speaking about OUR interaction and the KC / Mahomes specific situation and how it related. Things absolutely aligned and you took issue with me describing it that way. I don't agree with you that Dak is middling, I don't agree with much of your assessment at all which is why I didn't engage there any further. Just pointed out that KC getting Mahomes when, where, and how they did was fortuitous and not easy. It's not justification for doing anything else as an alternative, simply the point that it doesn't happen often. We are lucky I'm not running the team, I am just an opinionated fan, same as you. I realize it though.

Yeah, it was all luck that a great coach ended up with a great QB. Right. It's just all aligning for these dudes. All the reason Belichick is winning Super Bowls too.

Gosh, I wish things would just align for Jerry Jones so we can get a Super Bowl like in the 90s when things aligned and we got 3 rings. Damn those stars!

 

[erod]

nope just as one antonio romo was not an issue at his inflated contract it was the market. If you're looking for a scapegoat who is not worth the contract my vote goes to one Jason Garrett

Garrett doesn't count against the cap. Romo was the offense essentially. Health aside, he played to his cap number and beyond.

We're about to pay Dak more money than Aaron Rodgers. That is the definition of ridiculous. Dak doesn't carry teams.

 

[mattjames2010]

And you can heed your own advice with your apparent Dak hate lol.

Quite frankly everything I said is relevant just cause it don’t fit your agenda too bad. Dak is top 5 this year in many important QB statistical categories. Im going to carry on my support of dak as he will turn out to be a huge player in our future and will lmao at the counseling some of yall may need. you may want to try an eagles forum if yall hate your current QB.

Its not my money so i don't care but he will be signed and it it will start at 33 mil and work up.Whether that's franchise tag or yearly salary.

My "Dak hate" formed AFTER he entered the NFL and AFTER I evaluated him. And once Dak is gone from this team, I won't speak of him again in the context of this team because he no longer will matter. Romo has been gone since 2016, yet the Dak camp still brings him up. When you bring up Romo here rather than Dak's peers, you're right, you're not good enough to engage in that conversation with. It's irrelevant and derailing - I explained to you, whether you liked Romo or not, why he got the contract he did.

That's where this ends. Take your Romo vs. Dak crap to another zone and stop stinking up threads.

 

[starfan1]

Garrett doesn't count against the cap. Romo was the offense essentially. Health aside, he played to his cap number and beyond.

We're about to pay Dak more money than Aaron Rodgers. That is the definition of ridiculous. Dak doesn't carry teams.

did i say anything bout cap? I said contract that wasn't worth it you perceived just as matt james that i was talking about a cap I wasn't I just know Garrett is the common denominator of problems with both QB's. Im not going to derail the thread with an argument that's futile about your perceptions of romo being the offense essentially.

That's a common myth shared by many romosexuals. That being said he was a good QB who was failed by the organization but he was not faultless in the continued failures of the dallas cowboys. Just like our current QB he was not problem 1 and in fact down the list but was part of the problem.
We can win with Dak just like with romo Im beginning to feel pretty strongly though we many not be able to with Garrett.

 

[starfan1]

My "Dak hate" formed AFTER he entered the NFL and AFTER I evaluated him. And once Dak is gone from this team, I won't speak of him again in the context of this team because he no longer will matter. Romo has been gone since 2016, yet the Dak camp still brings him up. When you bring up Romo here rather than Dak's peers, you're right, you're not good enough to engage in that conversation with. It's irrelevant and derailing - I explained to you, whether you liked Romo or not, why he got the contract he did.

That's where this ends. Take your Romo vs. Dak crap to another zone and stop stinking up threads.

good have a good day then I assume you be moving along

 

[KJJ]

No choice but to sign Dak, or maybe trade him if Jerry has the guts.

Trade him for who Andy Dalton or Marcus Mariota? Would that make you happy? Jerry would be an absolute idiot to trade him away for a QB who’s flamed out. Just another anyone but Dak thread.

 

[erod]

did i say anything bout cap? I said contract that wasn't worth it you perceived just as matt james that i was talking about a cap I wasn't I just know Garrett is the common denominator of problems with both QB's. Im not going to derail the thread with an argument that's futile about your perceptions of romo being the offense essentially.

That's a common myth shared by many romosexuals. That being said he was a good QB who was failed by the organization but he was not faultless in the continued failures of the dallas cowboys. Just like our current QB he was not problem 1 and in fact down the list but was part of the problem.
We can win with Dak just like with romo Im beginning to feel pretty strongly though we many not be able to with Garrett.

The two aren't remotely the same.

Romo took 4-12 rosters to 8-8 and 8-8 rosters to 11-5.

Dak takes 9-7 rosters to 9-7 and 11-5 rosters to 11-5.

Which one would you pay big money?

 

[starfan1]

The two aren't remotely the same.

Romo took 4-12 rosters to 8-8 and 8-8 rosters to 11-5.

Dak takes 9-7 rosters to 9-7 and 11-5 rosters to 11-5.

Which one would you pay big money?

dude we arent going to agree here. I have seen both QB's look brilliant and both QB's look baffling to me. Romo by himself did none of that just as Dak himself has done none of it. It takes efforts from alot of people and they both have had pro bowlers coming out their back end

lets just call it we wont see eye to eye and move on. Can we do that? I didnt care for his second contract extension that's a fact ill admit that. at that time we didnt have much a choice and it proved to be a mistake as his body broke down and his contract was an issue till recently but its water under the bridge.

whether dak is worth more than Wilson can be debated. i dont think so but i also know jerry who has made contract mistakes over and over is going to do it and im going to support it. If you want to focus on mistake contracts I would say the Dlaw and Zeke contract were mistakes but if were a guessing man id say those wont bother near as much as the upcoming Dak contract because you like them. We arent scrapping this and starting over.

a coach like BB could do wonders with this team but then again he isnt available

 

[Proof]

Yeah, it was all luck that a great coach ended up with a great QB. Right. It's just all aligning for these dudes. All the reason Belichick is winning Super Bowls too.

Gosh, I wish things would just align for Jerry Jones so we can get a Super Bowl like in the 90s when things aligned and we got 3 rings. Damn those stars!

You’re good at this. But yes a 20 yr spanning dynasty is exactly analogous to arguably the best qb in the league falling to ten and being taken behind Mitch Trubisky. Is also how I ascribe all good things that happen