CFZ QB/Head Coach combinations

[Jumbo075]

Take a look at the dynasty teams of the NFL. What is it that they all have in common?

1950’s Cleveland Browns: Otto Graham / Paul Brown

1960’s Green Bay Packers: Bart Starr / Vince Lombardi

1970’s Miami Dolphins: Bob Griese / Don Shula

1970’s Pittsburgh Steelers: Terry Bradshaw / Chuck Knoll

1970’s Dallas Cowboys: Roger Staubach / Tom Landry

1970’s Minnesota Vikings: Fran Tarkenton / Bud Grant

1980’s San Francisco 49ers: Joe Montana / Bill Walsh

1980’s Denver Broncos: John Elway / Dan Reeves

1980’s Washington: multiple QB’s / Joe Gibbs

1990’s Buffalo Bills: Jim Kelly / Marc Levy

1990’s Dallas Cowboys: Troy Aikman / Jimmy Johnson

1990’s Denver Broncos: John Elway / Mike Shanahan

2000’s New England Patriots: Tom Brady / Bill Belichick

2000’s Pittsburgh Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger / Multiple Head Coaches

2010’s New England Patriots: Tom Brady / Bill Belichick

2020’s Kansas City Chiefs: Patrick Mahomes / Andy Reid

There are very few dynastic teams that didn’t rely on a unique pairing of QB and Head Coach. Defense first teams occasionally win a Super Bowl, but none became dynasties without a head coach / QB combination on the other side of the ball. Even losing dynasties like the Cowboys and Vikings, who combined for 9 of the 10 Super Bowls in the 1970’s, the 1980 Broncos and 1990’s Bills relied on QB / Head Coach combinations to get to 3 or more Super Bowls in a decade.

There are not many coaches like Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs who’ve won with different QB’s. And there are very few QB’s, such as Joe Montana, Troy Aikman and Tom Brady who’ve won with multiple hard coaches.

The relationship between the QB and Head Coach is the key relationship that leads to championships; and in almost every case, the Head Coach got to choose his dynastic QB.

The Cowboys current Head Coach Mike McCarthy didn’t get to choose his QB. Nevertheless, if the current edition of the Cowboys is to ever win a Super Bowl, then the relationship between Dak and McCarthy will be why. That is one reason that Cowboys fans should be gratified that McCarthy is going to be calling the plays. If Dak cannot win with McCarthy, it is unlikely that he’ll ever become a winner. But at least he has a chance now that Garrett and Moore are gone. And Dak is the last chance McCarthy will get to become a great Head Coach.

 

[Risen Star]

Prescott at least has a chance now that the guy who gave you the 2nd most productive offense in the league behind the Chiefs is gone.

Fans.

 

[jazzcat22]

A lot of work to post an anti-Dak thread.

 

[Jumbo075]

Prescott at least has a chance now that the guy who gave you the 2nd most productive offense in the league behind the Chiefs is gone.

Fans.

It isn’t OC/QB combos that lead to dynasties. That is a simple fact. Moore might eventually become a Head Coach, and he’ll get an opportunity to choose his potential dynastic QB. Tom Landry never won with Dan Meredith or Craig Morton. He won with Staubach. Shula never won without Griese. Knoll never won without Bradshaw. Bellichick hasn’t won without Brady.

 

[Jumbo075]

A lot of work to post an anti-Dak thread.

I am not anti-Dak. John Elway never won with Dan Reeves. McCarthy is Dak’s best chance at turning it around. Don’t know how you interpret that as anti-Dak.

Dak Prescott was handicapped by Garrett. Now he has a chance.

 

[Risen Star]

It isn’t OC/QB combos that lead to dynasties. That is a simple fact. Moore might eventually become a Head Coach, and he’ll get an opportunity to choose his potential dynastic QB. Tom Landry never won with Dan Meredith or Craig Morton. He won with Staubach. Shula never won without Griese. Knoll never won without Bradshaw. Bellichick hasn’t won without Brady.

"Now that Kellen Moore's not around to coordinate the 2nd most productive offense, McCarthy and Prescott have their shot at a dynasty."

I have no idea what this guy's talking about.

 

[Jumbo075]

"Now that Kellen Moore's not around to coordinate the 2nd most productive offense, McCarthy and Prescott have their shot at a dynasty."

I have no idea what this guy's talking about.

It isn’t about Moore’s talent or ability. It is about McCarthy. He is most comfortable being the play caller. He doesn’t have to be a better play caller than Moore.

It is about creating a symbiotic relationship with his QB -Dak. McCarthy NEEDS to be the play caller for his own comfort. Moore was the third wheel.

Doesn’t mean Moore is bad, and won’t become a winner in the future with someone else. He might even win with the Chargers if their Head Coach is comfortable with someone else as play caller. McCarthy isn’t.

 

[Risen Star]

It isn’t about Moore’s talent or ability. It is about McCarthy. He is most comfortable being the play caller. He doesn’t have to be a better play caller than Moore.

It is about creating a symbiotic relationship with his QB -Dak. McCarthy NEEDS to be the play caller for his own comfort. Moore was the third wheel.

Doesn’t mean Moore is bad, and won’t become a winner in the future with someone else. He might even win with the Chargers if their Head Coach is comfortable with someone else as play caller. McCarthy isn’t.

"The 2nd most productive offense in the league during the Kellen Moore years wasn't a symbiotic relationship with the QB. Now it can be with McCarthy. Which could lead to a dynasty."

Please keep them coming.

 

[gtb1943]

"The 2nd most productive offense in the league during the Kellen Moore years wasn't a symbiotic relationship with the QB. Now it can be with McCarthy. Which could lead to a dynasty."

Please keep them coming.

And what was won with all those fancy numbers?

Remember 2007 and the RECORD SETTING NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS OFFENSE?

Gee they did not get a Trophy, did they?

 

[Risen Star]

And what was won with all those fancy numbers?

Remember 2007 and the RECORD SETTING NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS OFFENSE?

Gee they did not get a Trophy, did they?

Did the coordinator have the 2nd most talent in the league? No.

Did he have the 2nd most productive offense? Yes.

The coordinator wasn't the problem. The change simply appeased the simpletons and allowed the next scapegoat, the head coach, one more year to overachieve and win despite of the circumstances.

 

[CouchCoach]

The HC must take charge of the QB.

Reeves tried to take charge of Elway but it was Shanahan that did that.

Did McC take charge of Favre or Rodgers? Favre drove Holmgren nuts and he finally figured he had to just balance him out with defense.. McC and Rodgers on the sideline does not look like a HC in control of the QB.

All of those great HC's had the same thing in common. Remember Staubach constantly wanting to call his own plays? Did he?

The HC in charge of the QB lets him know "you are the QB of my team; I am not the HC of yours".

Reeves greatest obstacle was the relationship the QB had with the owner, does McC have the same issue with Prescott?

I think McC knows that his boss wants his QB to be worth the money and elite status more than anything else, all about ego. He must balance what he wants for his team with what his QB wants and I think Prescott is looking for redemption for his turnovers and needs to prove he's as good as the other guys. Tough juggling act for McC.

 

[Jumbo075]

So you make a thread about the importance of the relationship between a Head Coach and QB, and those with reading comprehension problems get offended for either Dak or Kellen Moore. There is no way to talk to people with an agenda. They twist everything, even unrelated things, to fit their agenda, and ignore the main point of your argument. It seems like premeditated malice against other posters, but it is most likely blind ignorance.

If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. This is why I rarely respond to critical posts in threads I start. It’s a no win proposition to argue with those who have a single minded agenda to either bash the Cowboys, the Jones family, or defend a player against any perceived slight. It is simply impossible to have an intelligent conversation with them about just about anything.

Example: “I like mustard only on my hot dogs.”

Counter argument: “So you are a Dak-hater because he likes relish.”

 

[removed_20241105]

Wasn’t Aikman’s most key coach relationship Norv Turner? And Kelly’s Marchibroda? Not sure HC is always the most important QB relationship. Didn’t bother investigating the others but I’d guess a few more examples. I get the point you are making but I don’t think HC and QB are the starting point for determining success.

Also, in Pittsburgh, it was the D. Same for why Baltimore sustains success.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

A lot of work to post an anti-Dak thread.

Right lol. Could’ve did that with just one sentence.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Wasn’t Aikman’s most key coach relationship Norv Turner? And Kelly’s Marchibroda? Not sure HC is always the most important QB relationship. Didn’t bother investigating the others but I’d guess a few more examples. I get the point you are making but I don’t think HC and QB are the starting point for determining success.

Also, in Pittsburgh, it was the D. Same for why Baltimore sustains success.

I’ve heard Aikman say that about Norv….

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

So you make a thread about the importance of the relationship between a Head Coach and QB, and those with reading comprehension problems get offended for either Dak or Kellen Moore. There is no way to talk to people with an agenda. They twist everything, even unrelated things, to fit their agenda, and ignore the main point of your argument. It seems like premeditated malice against other posters, but it is most likely blind ignorance.

If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. This is why I rarely respond to critical posts in threads I start. It’s a no win proposition to argue with those who have a single minded agenda to either bash the Cowboys, the Jones family, or defend a player against any perceived slight. It is simply impossible to have an intelligent conversation with them about just about anything.

Example: “I like mustard only on my hot dogs.”

Counter argument: “So you are a Dak-hater because he likes relish.”

All you can do is laugh. When I see threads like these I’m not sure what they want because it’s not going to garner a debate or a good one anyway.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Take a look at the dynasty teams of the NFL. What is it that they all have in common?

1950’s Cleveland Browns: Otto Graham / Paul Brown

1960’s Green Bay Packers: Bart Starr / Vince Lombardi

1970’s Miami Dolphins: Bob Griese / Don Shula

1970’s Pittsburgh Steelers: Terry Bradshaw / Chuck Knoll

1970’s Dallas Cowboys: Roger Staubach / Tom Landry

1970’s Minnesota Vikings: Fran Tarkenton / Bud Grant

1980’s San Francisco 49ers: Joe Montana / Bill Walsh

1980’s Denver Broncos: John Elway / Dan Reeves

1980’s Washington: multiple QB’s / Joe Gibbs

1990’s Buffalo Bills: Jim Kelly / Marc Levy

1990’s Dallas Cowboys: Troy Aikman / Jimmy Johnson

1990’s Denver Broncos: John Elway / Mike Shanahan

2000’s New England Patriots: Tom Brady / Bill Belichick

2000’s Pittsburgh Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger / Multiple Head Coaches

2010’s New England Patriots: Tom Brady / Bill Belichick

2020’s Kansas City Chiefs: Patrick Mahomes / Andy Reid

There are very few dynastic teams that didn’t rely on a unique pairing of QB and Head Coach. Defense first teams occasionally win a Super Bowl, but none became dynasties without a head coach / QB combination on the other side of the ball. Even losing dynasties like the Cowboys and Vikings, who combined for 9 of the 10 Super Bowls in the 1970’s, the 1980 Broncos and 1990’s Bills relied on QB / Head Coach combinations to get to 3 or more Super Bowls in a decade.

There are not many coaches like Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs who’ve won with different QB’s. And there are very few QB’s, such as Joe Montana, Troy Aikman and Tom Brady who’ve won with multiple hard coaches.

The relationship between the QB and Head Coach is the key relationship that leads to championships; and in almost every case, the Head Coach got to choose his dynastic QB.

The Cowboys current Head Coach Mike McCarthy didn’t get to choose his QB. Nevertheless, if the current edition of the Cowboys is to ever win a Super Bowl, then the relationship between Dak and McCarthy will be why. That is one reason that Cowboys fans should be gratified that McCarthy is going to be calling the plays. If Dak cannot win with McCarthy, it is unlikely that he’ll ever become a winner. But at least he has a chance now that Garrett and Moore are gone. And Dak is the last chance McCarthy will get to become a great Head Coach.

Again, this is misinformation. Many of those teams had great defenses that either won them the title or had a huge part. Brady teams, Aikman, Steelers to name a few.

The continued emphasis on giving way too much credit to the QB continues. Emmitt was more important than Aikman as was that defense. Same with Knoll and the Steelers. Rothlisberger doesnt win anything without that Steelers D. Elway didnt win squat until he had Terrell Davis and that run game and a good defense.

Now I can agree on the Brady Belli and Reid and Mahomes for sure. Those will go down in history. But again, Brady wins little without those defenses.

 

[Ranching]

Take a look at the dynasty teams of the NFL. What is it that they all have in common?

1950’s Cleveland Browns: Otto Graham / Paul Brown

1960’s Green Bay Packers: Bart Starr / Vince Lombardi

1970’s Miami Dolphins: Bob Griese / Don Shula

1970’s Pittsburgh Steelers: Terry Bradshaw / Chuck Knoll

1970’s Dallas Cowboys: Roger Staubach / Tom Landry

1970’s Minnesota Vikings: Fran Tarkenton / Bud Grant

1980’s San Francisco 49ers: Joe Montana / Bill Walsh

1980’s Denver Broncos: John Elway / Dan Reeves

1980’s Washington: multiple QB’s / Joe Gibbs

1990’s Buffalo Bills: Jim Kelly / Marc Levy

1990’s Dallas Cowboys: Troy Aikman / Jimmy Johnson

1990’s Denver Broncos: John Elway / Mike Shanahan

2000’s New England Patriots: Tom Brady / Bill Belichick

2000’s Pittsburgh Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger / Multiple Head Coaches

2010’s New England Patriots: Tom Brady / Bill Belichick

2020’s Kansas City Chiefs: Patrick Mahomes / Andy Reid

There are very few dynastic teams that didn’t rely on a unique pairing of QB and Head Coach. Defense first teams occasionally win a Super Bowl, but none became dynasties without a head coach / QB combination on the other side of the ball. Even losing dynasties like the Cowboys and Vikings, who combined for 9 of the 10 Super Bowls in the 1970’s, the 1980 Broncos and 1990’s Bills relied on QB / Head Coach combinations to get to 3 or more Super Bowls in a decade.

There are not many coaches like Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs who’ve won with different QB’s. And there are very few QB’s, such as Joe Montana, Troy Aikman and Tom Brady who’ve won with multiple hard coaches.

The relationship between the QB and Head Coach is the key relationship that leads to championships; and in almost every case, the Head Coach got to choose his dynastic QB.

The Cowboys current Head Coach Mike McCarthy didn’t get to choose his QB. Nevertheless, if the current edition of the Cowboys is to ever win a Super Bowl, then the relationship between Dak and McCarthy will be why. That is one reason that Cowboys fans should be gratified that McCarthy is going to be calling the plays. If Dak cannot win with McCarthy, it is unlikely that he’ll ever become a winner. But at least he has a chance now that Garrett and Moore are gone. And Dak is the last chance McCarthy will get to become a great Head Coach.

Don't forget, Wentz won a ring with Pedersen...

 

[CTcowboy203]

To me the difference between kellen and McCarthy in theory will be the hope that McCarthy will be able to rein dak in. Kellen gave dak incredible freedom to switch plays and call things as he see fit. McCarthy will not out due moore in terms of stats- kellen put up numbers period.

The relationship between moore and dak started out as teammates and seems more friend like- which clearly had benefits but also could lead to dak kind of free styling so to speak. I don’t think we will get that same type of relationship with McCarthy and it will still be cordial and based on respect but coach to player.

Moore was a gun slinging quarterback I think situationally McCarthy will try and put dak in better situations in regards to down and distance. Just a different relationship. Moore wasn’t the problem, there are many and they start with dak but moore gave dak so much freedom it was going to be hard for dak to ever run offense a different way.

 

[75boyz]

I just can't personally tie in either the quarterbacking or coaching talent to your aforementioned list.

Some here are McCarthy groupies. I say his entire pre Dallas career is a product of Rodgers. Now this can be debated I'm told.

But what I think can not be debated is to even mention Prescott in the same talent level sentence with even ONE of those on your list.

But yes, to your OP. Past history has shown that when there is an elite QB talent and he is paired with a good to elite HC, there tends to be a correlation to teams achieving consistent post season success with that pairing.

I just can't lump the McCarthy - Dak duo into that level of talent.

Just my opinion.