CFZ QB/Head Coach combinations

[Jumbo075]

While the HC/QB is a valid point I’m just not sure Prescott is worthy of mention in this comparison or group?

Remains to be seen. There are a ton of HC/QB combos that never worked, that’s for sure. But I think for Dak and McCarthy, they are either going to have to figure out a way, or one or both will be gone soon.

 

[Jumbo075]

right, most think he would have stayed until say 1996-1997 most likely not doing much more than what Switzer did finishing off that eras players with a nfccg and a anther SB etc..I doubt Jimmy would have done much more.

he was a lot loke Parcells and needed new place and new challenge, nomad type coach not a Landry or BB type who are lifers.

Honestly, I think if Jerry was convinced that Jimmy was committed, the pair would’ve lasted longer. Jimmy has mentioned that Jerry was worried about his commitment beyond the 1993 season, and also admitted he already had a foot out the door. I wonder if Jerry would ever have made his angry comment in the bar if he believed Jimmy was going to stay longer. Personally, I think both men treated the other with disrespect, which is a relationship killer. And then it just escalated. I blame both, not just Jerry.

Belichick didn’t have the same lack of commitment that Jimmy had. It is easier to set your ego aside when you know the other person is committed to the relationship.

 

[blueblood70]

Marino at least made it to a Super Bowl in his 2nd season.

that it once and has those stats LMAO so did Garoppolo, Kaepernick, Neill Odonell, Flacco, and Goff none are better than dak some might be close.. other who won you telling me...many other i cant remember their names but hey Foles must be awesome where is he now? right Teams win SBS you going to convince me 85 bears D and STs didn't gift McMahon that SB..that dude was total scrub,

Great qbs and HCs are nice to have but total team 4 phases all playing in unison. average qbs win sbs with great teams but weve seen better qbs lose with not so good team support.,

 

[Jumbo075]

that it once and has those stats LMAO so did Garoppolo, Kaepernick, Neill Odonell, Flacco, and Goff none are better than dak some might be close.. other who won you telling me...many other i cant remember their names but hey Foles must be awesome where is he now? right Teams win SBS you going to convince me 85 bears D and STs didn't gift McMahon that SB..that dude was total scrub,

Great qbs and HCs are nice to have but total team 4 phases all playing in unison. average qbs win sbs with great teams but weve seen better qbs lose with not so good team support.,

Honestly, it is surprising that Shula and Marino didn’t work out better.

 

[plasticman]

Pairing up quarterbacks with head coach is a common approach. It's what most new Head Coaches attempt to achieve unless they are taking over a successful team, obviously, a rare occurrence.

There are just as many such pairing among non-championship teams. When a losing team gets their new Head Coach, it usually comes with a very high pick in the following draft, courtesy of the outgoing coaching staff. This is the opportunity for the new HC to start fresh with the QB of his choice or a choice in which he was allowed substantial input.

We saw this in 1989 when Jimmy took Troy. We saw it when Meyer took Lawrence in 2021.

Almost every new Head Coach for a previously losing team willk get their quarterback by their 2nd season. The ones that form a lasting relationship are only going to be the successful ones.

 

[Diehardblues]

Remains to be seen. There are a ton of HC/QB combos that never worked, that’s for sure. But I think for Dak and McCarthy, they are either going to have to figure out a way, or one or both will be gone soon.

Yep, it does remain to be seen. I agree. I just don’t see Dak in that Elite category as others mentioned. While McCarthy and Rodgers would probably fit closer.

I’d say McCarthy is probably on a shorter leash than Prescott. Especially with Dan in place .

 

[Diehardblues]

Pairing up quarterbacks with head coach is a common approach. It's what most new Head Coaches attempt to achieve unless they are taking over a successful team, obviously, a rare occurrence.

There are just as many such pairing among non-championship teams. When a losing team gets their new Head Coach, it usually comes with a very high pick in the following draft, courtesy of the outgoing coaching staff. This is the opportunity for the new HC to start fresh with the QB of his choice or a choice in which he was allowed substantial input.

We saw this in 1989 when Jimmy took Troy. We saw it when Meyer took Lawrence in 2021.

Almost every new Head Coach for a previously losing team willk get their quarterback by their 2nd season. The ones that form a lasting relationship are only going to be the successful ones.

I’d argue in order to pair up HC/ QB as such as the examples provided in OP need a more Elite QB.

We need to be focused on other aspects carrying this team like on defense , OL and rushing game which have helped make this QB more effective.

 

[75boyz]

Yep, it does remain to be seen. I agree. I just don’t see Dak in that Elite category as others mentioned. While McCarthy and Rodgers would probably fit closer.

I’d say McCarthy is probably on a shorter leash than Prescott. Especially with Dan in place .

Yeah totally agree. While the OP uses the word dynasty type pairings that included mostly 2 championships or more won in most cases but also included even just multiple championship appearances in the case of Tarkenton/Grant and Kelly/Levy, I still can't find myself discussing Dak on that level.

Like you mentioning McCarthy with Rodgers, the same case could be made that while not dynasty results combos, the Dungy/Manning and Carroll/Wilson combo both won one and appeared in 2, and Brees/Payton won one and did a whole lot of playoff winning as well. So to me, Dak still doesn't qualify for this discussion group either.

So I can't really even put Dak in the conversation based on how I understood the OP but oh well.

jmo

 

[DandyDon52]

Take a look at the dynasty teams of the NFL. What is it that they all have in common?

1950’s Cleveland Browns: Otto Graham / Paul Brown

1960’s Green Bay Packers: Bart Starr / Vince Lombardi

1970’s Miami Dolphins: Bob Griese / Don Shula

1970’s Pittsburgh Steelers: Terry Bradshaw / Chuck Knoll

1970’s Dallas Cowboys: Roger Staubach / Tom Landry

1970’s Minnesota Vikings: Fran Tarkenton / Bud Grant

1980’s San Francisco 49ers: Joe Montana / Bill Walsh

1980’s Denver Broncos: John Elway / Dan Reeves

1980’s Washington: multiple QB’s / Joe Gibbs

1990’s Buffalo Bills: Jim Kelly / Marc Levy

1990’s Dallas Cowboys: Troy Aikman / Jimmy Johnson

1990’s Denver Broncos: John Elway / Mike Shanahan

2000’s New England Patriots: Tom Brady / Bill Belichick

2000’s Pittsburgh Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger / Multiple Head Coaches

2010’s New England Patriots: Tom Brady / Bill Belichick

2020’s Kansas City Chiefs: Patrick Mahomes / Andy Reid

There are very few dynastic teams that didn’t rely on a unique pairing of QB and Head Coach. Defense first teams occasionally win a Super Bowl, but none became dynasties without a head coach / QB combination on the other side of the ball. Even losing dynasties like the Cowboys and Vikings, who combined for 9 of the 10 Super Bowls in the 1970’s, the 1980 Broncos and 1990’s Bills relied on QB / Head Coach combinations to get to 3 or more Super Bowls in a decade.

There are not many coaches like Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs who’ve won with different QB’s. And there are very few QB’s, such as Joe Montana, Troy Aikman and Tom Brady who’ve won with multiple hard coaches.

The relationship between the QB and Head Coach is the key relationship that leads to championships; and in almost every case, the Head Coach got to choose his dynastic QB.

The Cowboys current Head Coach Mike McCarthy didn’t get to choose his QB. Nevertheless, if the current edition of the Cowboys is to ever win a Super Bowl, then the relationship between Dak and McCarthy will be why. That is one reason that Cowboys fans should be gratified that McCarthy is going to be calling the plays. If Dak cannot win with McCarthy, it is unlikely that he’ll ever become a winner. But at least he has a chance now that Garrett and Moore are gone. And Dak is the last chance McCarthy will get to become a great Head Coach.

Well with most of those the qb was really good, and so was the hc .
you left out madden with both lamonica and stabler
I dont know about synergy, but just they worked well together and were both peaking during same period, and had good teams as well.

Back in the old days, the combo would last much longer than in todays game, where things change rapidly.
Back then it was same guys every year.

 

[Bullflop]

McCarthy and Dak might possibly cut out their own version of what their best version of the Cowboys can be. To do so, they'll each have to do their level best to make the most of the results that follow their leadership. It will require everything in their power to bring out the best in themselves and the team they're in charge of. Hopefully, that might be possible if they play their cards right. Outside of God, himself, nobody knows what to expect. Here's hoping they'll foster a relationship they'll both need to maximize their best attributes. If so, it might inspire the entire team to follow suit.

 

[blueblood70]

McCarthy and Dak might possibly cut out their own version of what their best version of the Cowboys can be. To do so, they'll each have to do their level best to make the most of the results that follow their leadership. It will require everything in their power to bring out the best in themselves and the team they're in charge of. Hopefully, that might be possible if they play their cards right. Outside of God, himself, nobody knows what to expect. Here's hoping they'll foster a relationship they'll both need to maximize their best attributes. If so, it might inspire the entire team to follow suit.

IM sorry but the premise here qb/hc pairing is the key, barely scratch the surface over 100 years of nfl existence that list is SMALL , that not the reality., the reality this is team sport and IDC what Jimmy did for this team with Troy, theres no 90s dynasty without Emmitt, the OL, MI, and that defense ST and full coaching staff. the fatcs are you ahve to hit it all right at the same time for run to begin with that firt SB then have luck

but to say get great qb/HC is the recipe for success. Hardly, Troy wasn't the heart of this team Emmitt was, that OL(qb, offense, and RBs cant function without an OL) , MI , Woodson, Haley, Deion and all of them TOGETHER it will always and forever be team sport and that why teams with say qb like Mcmahon, flacco, foles, Dilfer and others can get to or win SB or spark a dynasty is about TEAM.. those bears and ravens defenses carried those teams. dynasty's are hard to build because they are hard to start and maintain since those FA and cap FT and all the changes made since he left made it tougher.

sure, sometimes that was the case but given 100 years of NFL football but given that that list is too small to make it trend or blueprint.

Our issues here a has been either the offense pays well enough to win playoff games but the defense did not, coaching fell short etc or vice versa last 2 years its been the offense struggling, not because of hC or QB its the OL, no run game etc Troy would have failed as well without a Run game and OL especially one that commits 11 penalties, can to open holes , has pays called back etc. etc and simply put the 90s team bever had to test that theory, that OL and Emmitt flourished in the playoffs, were physical and had an identity of we will run it down your throats than hit MI on PA passes.. nothing works without that or they would be Romo/Dak led teams. ..thats a fact blame the qb all ypou want what i see is team that hasnt bought physical OL and run game the last 3 losses, that the common deonitor not Dak.. Dak could funcion beter with run game and OL that not being bullied all game.

only proof we have ES hold out they start 0-2 he gets paid comes back we win a SB..only facts we have is this was all about a physical OL and one of the greatest RBs of all time. Good thing troy didn't have top pay without a run game and OL being their best ion the payoffs, dak and romo have and also had many years with little defense.. why because no SM back then to call troy trash and his 141 INTs would have bene picked apart along with his many years with 20tds and 14 INts...he would be labeled a Jag for sure. they would have wanted troy out and Burlein in forever. lol

show me that Elway dynasty he didnt win big until TD showed up.

 

[JohnBoy]

"The 2nd most productive offense in the league during the Kellen Moore years wasn't a symbiotic relationship with the QB. Now it can be with McCarthy. Which could lead to a dynasty."

Please keep them coming.

He's asserting that there might be - likely is - a significance to the relationship between specifically the HC and the QB. I will further speculate (and that's all it is, no need to tie people kicking ideas around to their theories so that you can kick their teeth in later if/when the idea proves incorrect, such a childish & American behavior) - that this special relationship matters even more in the playoffs than it does in the regular season.

OP is not wrong to reach for this, and he's gathered evidence for consideration. Good post. By a fan, not a prophet.

 

[gtb1943]

IM sorry but the premise here qb/hc pairing is the key, barely scratch the surface over 100 years of nfl existence that list is SMALL , that not the reality., the reality this is team sport and IDC what Jimmy did for this team with Troy, theres no 90s dynasty without Emmitt, the OL, MI, and that defense ST and full coaching staff. the fatcs are you ahve to hit it all right at the same time for run to begin with that firt SB then have luck

but to say get great qb/HC is the recipe for success. Hardly, Troy wasn't the heart of this team Emmitt was, that OL(qb, offense, and RBs cant function without an OL) , MI , Woodson, Haley, Deion and all of them TOGETHER it will always and forever be team sport and that why teams with say qb like Mcmahon, flacco, foles, Dilfer and others can get to or win SB or spark a dynasty is about TEAM.. those bears and ravens defenses carried those teams. dynasty's are hard to build because they are hard to start and maintain since those FA and cap FT and all the changes made since he left made it tougher.

sure, sometimes that was the case but given 100 years of NFL football but given that that list is too small to make it trend or blueprint.

Our issues here a has been either the offense pays well enough to win playoff games but the defense did not, coaching fell short etc or vice versa last 2 years its been the offense struggling, not because of hC or QB its the OL, no run game etc Troy would have failed as well without a Run game and OL especially one that commits 11 penalties, can to open holes , has pays called back etc. etc and simply put the 90s team bever had to test that theory, that OL and Emmitt flourished in the playoffs, were physical and had an identity of we will run it down your throats than hit MI on PA passes.. nothing works without that or they would be Romo/Dak led teams. ..thats a fact blame the qb all ypou want what i see is team that hasnt bought physical OL and run game the last 3 losses, that the common deonitor not Dak.. Dak could funcion beter with run game and OL that not being bullied all game.

only proof we have ES hold out they start 0-2 he gets paid comes back we win a SB..only facts we have is this was all about a physical OL and one of the greatest RBs of all time. Good thing troy didn't have top pay without a run game and OL being their best ion the payoffs, dak and romo have and also had many years with little defense.. why because no SM back then to call troy trash and his 141 INTs would have bene picked apart along with his many years with 20tds and 14 INts...he would be labeled a Jag for sure. they would have wanted troy out and Burlein in forever. lol

show me that Elway dynasty he didnt win big until TD showed up.

So now its the O lines fault for everything.

Yawn.

 

[gtb1943]

He's asserting that there might be - likely is - a significance to the relationship between specifically the HC and the QB. I will further speculate (and that's all it is, no need to tie people kicking ideas around to their theories so that you can kick their teeth in later if/when the idea proves incorrect, such a childish & American behavior) - that this special relationship matters even more in the playoffs than it does in the regular season.

OP is not wrong to reach for this, and he's gathered evidence for consideration. Good post. By a fan, not a prophet.

Snicker at the show at Americans there. You want childish go to Europe and anything to do with soccer.

 

[Risen Star]

He's asserting that there might be - likely is - a significance to the relationship between specifically the HC and the QB. I will further speculate (and that's all it is, no need to tie people kicking ideas around to their theories so that you can kick their teeth in later if/when the idea proves incorrect, such a childish & American behavior) - that this special relationship matters even more in the playoffs than it does in the regular season.

OP is not wrong to reach for this, and he's gathered evidence for consideration. Good post. By a fan, not a prophet.

Spare me. Kellen Moore gave them the 2nd best offense productive wise with a QB that was nowhere near that. Mike McCarthy isn't going to improve on that. No matter whatever relationship, hand holding, long walks in the park nonsense you want to talk about.

The problem wasn't the coordinator.

 

[JohnBoy]

Spare me. Kellen Moore gave them the 2nd best offense productive wise with a QB that was nowhere near that. Mike McCarthy isn't going to improve on that. No matter whatever relationship, hand holding, long walks in the park nonsense you want to talk about.

The problem wasn't the coordinator.

Agreed! I think the OP agrees with you here too.

"2nd best offense productive wise" - I think you already see the (potential) fallacy here, because of the way you know you have to state it. Stats matter to a certain point, I will argue especially in the reg. reason. Playoffs in the NFL are radically different football.

 

[CowboyFrog]

I can see the reason people defend KM because of stats...when it gets wierd for me is when a poster defends KM for the stats then says about Dak "Who cares about stats win the big playoff game" and that makes me laugh as i point back to thier KM defense.

 

[75boyz]

Agreed! I think the OP agrees with you here too.

"2nd best offense productive wise" - I think you already see the (potential) fallacy here, because of the way you know you have to state it. Stats matter to a certain point, I will argue especially in the reg. reason. Playoffs in the NFL are radically different football.

And the question you have to honestly ask yourself is will it ultimately matter what play is called in the playoffs when this same QB will be responsible for executing that play?

Hint: It's NOT the play that was called.

 

[75boyz]

I can see the reason people defend KM because of stats...when it gets wierd for me is when a poster defends KM for the stats then says about Dak "Who cares about stats win the big playoff game" and that makes me laugh as i point back to thier KM defense.

My stance is it doesn't matter if it's Garrett, Linehan, Moore or McCarthy...
The results will be the same as long as SleepNumber is at QB.
The guys defending Moore lean toward Moore getting more out of Dak, or maximizing just about everything possible with regards to his limited skillset. So basically Moore overachieved with what he was working with at QB. Linehan did the same thing with Dak his rookie year just not on a pass production stat level.

jmo

 

[CowboyFrog]

My stance is it doesn't matter if it's Garrett, Linehan, Moore or McCarthy...
The results will be the same as long as SleepNumber is at QB.
The guys defending Moore lean toward Moore getting more out of Dak, or maximizing just about everything possible with regards to his limited skillset. So basically Moore overachieved with what he was working with at QB.

jmo

Well its near impossible to logically say "The OC over achieved with the QB who is physically putting up the numbers you like", Prescott didnt just get lucky nor did KM call "Plays that worked against every team but SF" again one can not achieve anything without the other. KM doesnt call empty set 5 wide on 3 and 2 because he is protecting Dak....that wouldnt make sense would it? Now if you say neither Dak nor KM can get it done in the playoffs we are 100% in agreement.