QB Money

[Nightman]

How many Superbowls have been won using that method?

Seahawks come to mind of course, but what is the percentage of SB wins in your scenario?

I would say having a HoF QB with a strong Defense is the best and most popular method.

Starr, Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, Elway, Favre, Warner, Brady, Eli, Peyton, Big Ben, Brees

 

[zrinkill]

I would say having a HoF QB with a strong Defense is the best and most popular method.

Starr, Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, Elway, Favre, Warner, Brady, Eli, Peyton, Big Ben, Brees

I agree

 

[SHAMSzy]

Lol at op

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Didn't Tom Brady just win the Super Bowl ?

Didn't Payton Manning play in the Super Bowl last year ?

The Seahawks don't appear to have had an inordinate amount of non-QB's with massive contracts. It does not appear that the extra cap space from having cheap QB was really a big factor in their success.

And Brees. And Peyton. And Eli. And Big Ben.

Tons of qbs not on rookie deals.

On cheap deals....actually....there is Russ....and then who?

 

[xwalker]

And Brees. And Peyton. And Eli. And Big Ben.

Tons of qbs not on rookie deals.

On cheap deals....actually....there is Russ....and then who?

The OP loves to start new threads. I don't think his goal is to be accurate.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

The OP loves to start new threads. I don't think his goal is to be accurate.

Tis quite sad.

 

[dwreck27]

Honestly looking forward post Romo I would like us to have a mindset of building the whole team and then plugging in the guy

It's worked with
big Ben in Pittsburgh
Flacco in Baltimore
Wilson in Seattle

 

[Craig]

Really it worked with kaep in san fran. They went to the super bowl to lose to the ravens using the same formula.

 

[Nightman]

There is no secret formula

You need a good QB, either a drafted one or a proven vet

You need a solid Defense

You have to draft well
You have to make the right decisions with your own FAs
You have to sign the right Free Agents from other teams

 

[MrPeanutbutter]

Tanking is never the answer

It's a solution for certain teams. Indianapolis comes to mind.

Dallas is not necessarily that team.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

It's a solution for certain teams. Indianapolis comes to mind.

Dallas is not necessarily that team.

I don't think they tanked. Considering they fired the GM and coach, why would you think they tanked? Irsay told them to maybe? If that is the case, they would have leaked on their way out that he did that.

 

[Nightman]

I don't think they tanked. Considering they fired the GM and coach, why would you think they tanked? Irsay told them to maybe? If that is the case, they would have leaked on their way out that he did that.

I think it shows just how valuable a QB is. That whole franchise depended on Peyton and now on Luck. They won a couple games that could have blown the whole deal for them.

 

[coult44]

It's hard to put together a complete team while you're paying a Quarterback 18+ million per year.

We've seen a lot of success with teams that build teams and draft young talented quarterbacks and are able to have success during their rookie contracts.

Outside of having success in that rookie contract, star quarterbacks immediately impede the ability of a team to win a super bowl, and at the very least must produce at a top level to warrant the investment.

The Seahawks won the Super Bowl last year and returned to it this year. However, soon they'll need to pay Russell Wilson, and that will come at a detriment to their defense.

You can see the same thing with the Ravens and the 49ers. You can see it with the Falcons, you can even see it with the Saints. And you can definitely see it with the Bears. You can also see it with the Chiefs.

That brings me to Tony Romo. Tony Romo is the 8th highest paid quarterback in the NFL and last year he was the highest rated quarterback in the NFL... that's really good value. Aaron Rodgers isn't 4 million dollars a year better than Tony Romo.

The Chiefs are paying Alex Smith 17 million dollars a year, one less than Romo... They aren't going to win with that formula. Matt Stafford gets almost as much as Romo does. The Lions aren't going to win with that formula.

Phillip Rivers is a very underrated and underpaid QB, if he goes somewhere and keeps his contract demands similar to what they are now, and the team is better built. He'll probably win a super bowl before he retires. He shouldn't stay in San Diego, just as Drew Brees was fortunate not to stay.

The problem is always balance, and high paid QBs destroy that balance. It's much more difficult to put an offense together than a defense, because on offense you need a QB, and any QB that stays with you more than their rookie deal is probably going to cost you a lot whether they are great or not.

The best part of putting together a defense is not overpaying defensive players. You have a smart defensive coordinator and you give them time and resources to implement their system, and they'll give you a top 10 defense. Period. Point Blank. And generally, as long as you don't overload on offense, defenses can be good in perpetuity.

We're far away from that, but what we can do for the rest of the Romo era is invest in the defense. We can avoid drafting a quarterback too early, who will sit for a long time, and then only have a couple years before their expense hurts the team. You have to time it right.


In 2009 the Seahawks were the 25th ranked defense in the NFL. In 2010 they were the 25th ranked defense in the NFL.

Pete Carroll turned that team around (though I've lost all respect for him none the less)

He brought in Gus Bradley to be defensive coordinator. The thing is, they didn't just go signing the best free agent defensive players out there. No... In 2013 it should be noted that they were 14th in the league in defensive spending... They were 12th in 2014.

The Cowboys were 28th this year... and yet we ranked 15th in points allowed...

Part of the problem is all the dead money we've been dealing with and the missed draft choices, but we have an opportunity to turn the corner, and we should be excited about it.

We're going to have to pay Dez, but outside of that, we shouldn't break the bank for anyone. Not for Murray, not for Suh..., not for anyone.

The Seahawks just resigned Sherman and Thomas who are now their highest paid players, but they aren't breaking the bank for players either.

The reality is that we haven't drafted well enough on defense to not bring in free agents early on. We need to sign some nice 3-4 year contracts with some free agents this year as we restart this defensive rebuild.

What that means however is that we need to be able to afford those players, and the cuts need to come from offense. It needs to come from Doug Free and it needs to come from Murray.

So with this theory, who should be competing for the SB for the next 3-4 years?

 

[Galian Beast]

I see you point, but I would also add that this scenario has exception in both directions...on one side, you have your Wilson's so you can build around a highly functioning QB....on the other side, you have your Brady's who seems to always be in the mix (I will always label them cheaters, but if you can get away with that crap, why wouldn't you?)

Smack dab in the middle you have Dallas who is building their team around a young OL...they send their money on their QB, yes, but they focused on his protection.

I personally a not a big believer in Wilson...great guy, but he is successful because of his defense and running game....let's see how Seattle starts to diminish since they have to pay the QB and RB now

My point isn't that you want Wilson over Brady, but that regardless of how talented a QB is, your chances of winning with them in their 2nd and 3rd contracts diminish greatly as they capsize your salary cap. A good team with a good QB on their rookie deal can produce more consistently than a team that only has a good QB.

 

[Galian Beast]

Manning cap hits:
2013 17.5
2014 17.5
2015 21.5

It's not as if Seattle bought their way to the Super Bowl if you look at their roster. Their big additions were Bennett and Avril in 2013 and they signed relatively cheap contracts that year.

I am really going to have to question your reading comprehension.

17.5 million for Peyton Manning when Aaron Rodgers has set the ceiling at 22 million is a huge difference.

I specifically said Seattle has done it the right way, minus paying Wilson elite money going forward.

 

[Galian Beast]

So with this theory, who should be competing for the SB for the next 3-4 years?

I think Seattle's window is actually going to close pretty quickly.

A lot of people read things and come up with their own conclusions.

I'm not saying you don't want an elite qb, but the reality is that most QBs aren't elite, yet they are paid as such anyways.

Teams without elite quarterbacks are better off not paying these average guys, elite money.

Teams that I think will compete for Super Bowls in the next 3-4 years.

Buffalo - if they can find a decent qb
Arizona - could have competed this year
New England - depends on how long brady plays
Dallas - depends on how quickly we can put together a defense
Indianapolis - they have a good window

Teams that have missed their window or are missing their window

Seattle
Kansas City
San Diego
Detroit
Green Bay
Giants
Denver

 

[Craig]

I don't understand what the controversy is in this thread. Its an advantage to have a productive QB making rookie money instead of 8 figures. Are people arguing that?

 

[DFWJC]

At least you said Romo wasn't overpaid given the current market.
So you did get that part right.
Of course, they need to get a couple more very good years from him for that to hold true overall....but so far, so good.

As for the premis that you need to spend your resources everywhere else,but try to hit the jackpot with a rookie contract QB, not sure that's the way to go, though I'm sure nobody would turn it down.
Usually, the QB is not really dominant until late in his first contract or, far more likely, well after that.

 

[big dog cowboy]

New QB money is bankrupting teams.

I don't see any team going bankrupt.

 

[MrPeanutbutter]

I don't see any team going bankrupt.

Running out of cap room is, for all intents and purposes, football bankruptcy. See also: Detroit, Chicago. Both teams are getting killed by their QB contracts. Lots of bad money floating around.