Quality vs. Quantity-What kind of D is this team trying to become?

[atlantacowboy]

Yall waited months for the draft just to be miserable afterwards......and thats without seeing the dudes play one snap. Lmao

We knew Taco, Tristy Hill, and Gavin Escobar sucked before they even arrived at TC. Its not rocket science. They sucked in college. We tend to rely on measurables over actual performance in selecting college football players.

 

[stilltheguru]

We knew Taco, Tristy Hill, and Gavin Escobar sucked before they even arrived at TC. Its not rocket science. They sucked in college. We tend to rely on measurables over actual performance in selecting college football players.

Which draft picks this year sucked? Lets get it on record sir. Im curious

 

[Walker]

The team doesn't know how to pick players, especially on defense. So their idea is to draft as many players as possible and hope something hits. That's why we go for quantity over quality.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Which draft picks this year sucked? Lets get it on record sir. Im curious

Golston and Nahshon Wright were horrific 3rd round picks.

 

[stilltheguru]

Golston and Nahshon Wright were horrific 3rd round picks.

Ok.

 

[Jarntt]

"I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions."

This.

I am a big believer in building through the draft and building for the next 5 to 10 years and not just the upcoming season, but every situation is of course different. How many guys that we drafted this particular year are realistically making the game day roster and even if they do are going to have a bigger impact than whomever they replace on the roster? This Cowboys defense needed to add top end players, not role players. Maybe we added two, maybe we added more, who knows, but we could have used some of those picks we had to get at least one more of our top rated players, whomever they were. We had a lot of draft ammo at our disposal.

I fully understand the draft day trade chart is only a guide to those who want to make it out to be one and what it really takes to move up is whatever the team you want to trade with wants in return. But for discussion sake and using that chart as a guide our 3 third rounders would get us the 9th pick of the 2nd round. Would you trade those 3 for Moehrig or someone else who went around there? Our bottom two 3rd rounders would get us one of the last picks of the 2nd round. Our 2nd and one of our thirds gets you somewhere in the first. Maybe you throw another pick in if need be or maybe you get no takers and strike out, but the point is we had options and the team admitted to players we wanted going before we were on the clock. I think this was a prime year to be aggressive for the Cowboys and we weren't and I think it cost us. I think if we played our cards right we would have ended up with one more player that we are all excited about and not lost anyone we couldn't live without. That being said, maybe some of these picks end up better than whomever we "lost out on" by standing pat. I am excited for these guys to get into camp and hear how they look. The best part about having a crap load of draft picks and UDFAs is hearing about which ones look like players.

 

[eromeopolk]

Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.

I agree with you that Jerry Jones does not know what he wants as a GM. Switch the defense to a 3-4 Nolan No Work Defense during a Pandemic was just STUPID. Cowboys have been building and playing a 4-3 D for 3-4 years. Then you toss away your draft picks for the past 3-4 years for Mike Nolan No Work Defense.

However, I think you need to know the devil you are dealing with in Jerry Dumbo GM Jones. Jerry Dumbo GM Jones does not need to be drafting like Jimmy Johnson, Gil Brandt, and John Wooten. He has proven he does not have the Pro Football personnel savvy to pull off what you are describing (Jimmy Johnson used draft picks to get who he wanted).

With McClay, and Lionel Vital, Director of Scouting, it is best to reign Jerry in and not make a lot of movement messing up the draft board. I truly believe we got Jabril Cox because Jerry was with his grandson preparing for the draft pick and not by the phone or looking at who he should move up the board because he watched his grandson in a game with a college player.

I like this draft because of 3 players; Parsons, Joseph, and Cox. They were all BAPON, football players not just playing football, and where they were drafted they were all value picks. Even Josh Ball who has not done any dating violence in 2 years was a value pick considering if not for the off the field issue, he has 1st round athleticism, strength (28 reps 225lbs with 82" arms), and is a football player. Osa O was ranked the no.3 DL by one scouting report with the pedigree of being the no.1 wrestler in the Country out of High School (91-0 last 2 years). So you got quality and quantity

I loved when the Cowboys traded up for Tony Dorsett, Emmitt Smith, Russell Maryland, etc., Traded down for Darrin Smith and Kevin Williams, and traded draft picks away for Chuck Howley, Tony Casillas, Thomas Everett, and Charles Haley.

But ask yourself, what Jerry had to do with any of the above? When has Jerry done well in the draft without a strong football personnel man in control? With Jerry Dumbo GM, you need quantity given you opportunities for quality.

 

[Bobhaze]

Just going back to your comment I initially responded to__
'When you know what you're trying to be, it's easier to know what you want'.
Did this draft - along with the UDFA signings following the free agent aquisitions--showed you the Cowboys FO are doing what you think will be successful?

No.

 

[Motorola]

No.

Thanks for responding .

 

[Bobhaze]

Thanks for responding .

I could be dead wrong too! Hope I am!

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I get the opposite. Dan Quinn was impressive in his press conference and seems he knows exactly what he wants. He has a plan and is putting it into action.

We all knew this defense needs to be rebuilt. Y'all having been crying to cut Jaylon and bench all these players but now that they went into the draft and got 8 defense players there isn't a plan..... Haha

I honestly believe you guys will complain about anything and everything. No matter what is done just cry about it

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Just going back to your comment I initially responded to__
'When you know what you're trying to be, it's easier to know what you want'.
Did this draft - along with the UDFA signings following the free agent aquisitions--showed you the Cowboys FO are doing what you think will be successful?

The answer is yes. The defense needs to be rebuilt and with Parsons, Osa, Golston, Joseph and Cox that's almost half the defense that is rebuilt to go with Diggs, Lawrence, Gregory and Wilson.

 

[DandyDon52]

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.

Jerry has no plan other than make fixes for the season coming , and roll with it.
I agree , they could have made some moves up and got some of the players many here say are good.

I said at some point they were just going quantity, and hope they hit on some.

however I like most of the players they picked, just dont know if our coaches can coach um up, or know how to best use them, or
will they even use them at all?

Parsons should be good, the question to me is joseph, will he be any good , considering where he was taken.
If they get cox going as lb or safety, that could be a plus.

 

[DandyDon52]

I get the opposite. Dan Quinn was impressive in his press conference and seems he knows exactly what he wants. He has a plan and is putting it into action.

We all knew this defense needs to be rebuilt. Y'all having been crying to cut Jaylon and bench all these players but now that they went into the draft and got 8 defense players there isn't a plan..... Haha

I honestly believe you guys will complain about anything and everything. No matter what is done just cry about it

If that is true, then that sounds good.
Surprised jones boys are letting him do that.

 

[Bobhaze]

I get the opposite. Dan Quinn was impressive in his press conference and seems he knows exactly what he wants. He has a plan and is putting it into action.

We all knew this defense needs to be rebuilt. Y'all having been crying to cut Jaylon and bench all these players but now that they went into the draft and got 8 defense players there isn't a plan..... Haha

I honestly believe you guys will complain about anything and everything. No matter what is done just cry about it

Really, this stuff is just an opinion, not complaining. Besides my concern about this draft isn’t about the players. They may all be talented and help our team. I’m very concerned about the fat cats in the owners box who have exactly zero accountability- win or lose. They never seem to have a vision or plan that makes any kind of organizational sense to me.

The Jones boys have mastered the art of making money. But they appear to know very little about how healthy organizations work and what principles of good organizations look like. Most of the teams winning SBs are following a plan, Doesn’t always work but at least there is a vision. Here? I don’t see one.

The Jones model of putting together a team that wins is very haphazard- heavy on hype, light on substance. The plan appears to be just building excitement about “the possibility” that we get lucky and win something. That’s not a good formula for championships.

And even if one doesn’t agree with that assessment, there is that stubborn bit of evidence known as the last 25 years of playoff futility. They have only qualified for the playoffs 40% of those 25 years. I would love to believe we struck gold in “them thar” draft hills this year, but I’m just tired of looking at the same old same old approach and expecting different results. Hope I’m wrong.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

If that is true, then that sounds good.
Surprised jones boys are letting him do that.

If you haven't listened to his press conference after the draft I suggest it. I think these players will buy into what he is saying.

Also the Wright pick was 100 percent a Quinn pick. Reports are scouts wanted Cox or Browning but they let Quinn make the pick. That player will be tied to Quinn for his career though, good or bad

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Really, this stuff is just an opinion, not complaining. Besides my concern about this draft isn’t about the players. They may all be talented and help our team. I’m very concerned about the fat cats in the owners box who have exactly zero accountability- win or lose. They never seem to have a vision or plan that makes any kind of organizational sense to me.

The Jones boys have mastered the art of making money. But they appear to know very little about how healthy organizations work and what principles of good organizations look like. Most of the teams winning SBs are following a plan, Doesn’t always work but at least there is a vision. Here? I don’t see one.

The Jones model of putting together a team that wins is very haphazard- heavy on hype, light on substance. The plan appears to be just building excitement about “the possibility” that we get lucky and win something. That’s not a good formula for championships.

And even if one doesn’t agree with that assessment, there is that stubborn bit of evidence known as the last 25 years of playoff futility. They have only qualified for the playoffs 40% of those 25 years. I would love to believe we struck gold in “them thar” draft hills this year, but I’m just tired of looking at the same old same old approach and expecting different results. Hope I’m wrong.

I don't disagree with you on the Jones stuff. We have 30 years or so of their "plan"

I was merely taking about Quinn, it's clear he has a plan and putting it into action. Just my opinion though, we will see once the season starts

 

[buybuydandavis]

Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.

I think what Quinn wants are lots of specialist role players in the front 7. Although you'd prefer guys who can do everything, it's a reasonable strategy to get down and distance role players who are better in their specific roles than all but the best players can be in all roles.

I'm not sure what's happening in the secondary yet, but even in free agency, the pickups seemed very much about collecting 40% players in the front 7. There are big benefits to player development and evaluation when most everyone plays a significant amount.

 

[buybuydandavis]

It’s not good if you switch your D-Coordinator often like we do.

Especially when your front office delegates defensive vision to the DC. Like ours does.

 

[Diehardblues]

It's comically tragic how much Jerry gives the WHATEVS to true D building and the rest of the clan follow suit.
That guy has taken his glitz and glam to the extreme and doesn't get that if he were to build a true winning team he would garner even more attention and money from it.

I think he's given up on championships and given in to being the talk of the town.

One is more reliable and easily attainable than the other in his mind.

@Diehardblues
What say you?

I was pleased our Football Idiots focused and stayed with Defense.

But they need to keep their blabbering mouths shut on their intentions and targets in draft .

We had both of our 1st round picks swooped right from under us in consecutive picks. But we rebounded well with trade and Parsons pick.

Then in second round we again had our target stolen from us with Raiders . That morning I had said with our extra picks we should trade up if necessary in 2nd round. Which would align with Bobs theme in this thread.

I thought considering we were out maneuvered in first two rounds we did ok. Most grades were about B. But it could have been better.