Quality vs. Quantity-What kind of D is this team trying to become?

[Jake]

Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.

Given this team's inability to assess defensive talent in recent years, I'm okay with drafting quantity. The odds of them targeting the right players with fewer picks was not high. They're better off throwing several at the wall and hoping a few of them stick.

Regardless, it would be wise to pick a philosophy and stick to it. Changing schemes in a pandemic year was asinine and we saw the results. Now they're changing again, so expect more growing pains. Hopefully they'll get more time to implement it this offseason.

 

[Bobhaze]

I don't disagree with you on the Jones stuff. We have 30 years or so of their "plan"

I was merely taking about Quinn, it's clear he has a plan and putting it into action. Just my opinion though, we will see once the season starts

I like what I’ve seen and heard from Quinn. He has some charisma and purpose. The only concern I have is we seem to just drift here and there defensively, completely dependent on a defensive coordinator. Some DCs are great at Xs and Os but may not be good at scouting NFL talent. We will see in due time. The other concern is Quinn may only be here a couple of years before landing another HC gig. Then we may re-enter another period of drifting.

 

[fansince68]

i miss Coach Landry...so damn much.

What we miss most is the prvious "ownership" and Tom of course...

 

[fansince68]

Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.

I'd give the toe jam between my 2nd and 3rd toes on my right foot to see the FO big board in terms of how they ranked the players in the draft. Smh, we drafted 6th and 7th rounders in the 3rd round. Yikes!! It's not like these were impact players. Jerry and co still think they can "develop" players.....not happenin

 

[catiii]

7-10

 

[cowboyec]

I mean this is it. We signed Jaylon and one year later we have to look for his replacement, under new coaches. And not to defend 54, because he was awful last year, but this is his 3rd DC in so many years.

its not defending him.
its the truth.
we've done him no favors.

 

[cowboyec]

I'd give the toe jam between my 2nd and 3rd toes on my right foot to see the FO big board in terms of how they ranked the players in the draft. Smh, we drafted 6th and 7th rounders in the 3rd round. Yikes!! It's not like these were impact players. Jerry and co still think they can "develop" players.....not happenin

lindy's draft guide had a 3rd rd grade on osa...87th in their top 100.
bruglar had a 4th rd grade on him...as the 9th best dt in the draft...ahead of marvin wilson,bobby brown and fan favorite tyler shelvin.
he's a good player.

bruglar had a 4th rd grade on golston.

the only one that was taken with a 7th rd grade on him was wright...and maybe he proves that wrong.

2 of the 3 were projected to go right about that spot in the draft.
good,draftable players.

 

[charron]

I'm glad we didn't use a 4th round pick to move up. We took 2 guys with day 2 talent.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.

Trading up is almost never smart. Especially in the middle of the draft. I don't get why people don't understand that.

 

[jazzcat22]

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.
.

Fans need to make up their minds.
Over the last month or so I seen comments like this.

After the draft:
They can't fix it with quantity or quality
They are just throwing numbers at the defense hoping to fix it
We needed more day one starters

Before the draft:
Only if we can get 2 starters and a few eventual starters
we need depth
we need many new players on defense
gut the roster and replace them

Well, the did get 2 new starters, and they got depth with a few potential starters within a few years if not by the end of the year or next year.
You wanted players to replace other, well you got that too and also got depth.

Yes they could have done better, I am not denying that. But the before the draft issues were basically answered. AND they got a potential Tyron Smith replacement in the late round with Ball. That could have been a 2nd rounder.

So why are many still so upset. I know it is their nature to complain. And maybe partly because the pet cats were not selected.
But they need to make up their minds as to what they said leading up to the draft, as well, what happened also. I know some stick to their guns and were the same before, during and after. But seems many were / are contradicting themselves as well.

 

[CouchCoach]

There are two kinds of pony players, true handicappers and everyone else.

True handicappers are more about the science of it and picking winners. Everyone else is about the betting and they will have more winners because they bet more horses and more races. They will box exactas and trifectas utilizing the safety in numbers theory in hopes of hitting it.

The Cowboys staff is not confident enough in their evaluations and the fact when they did go heavy risk with Galloway, Williams and Claiborne, it didn't work out. Same with WFT and their Griffin experiment.

The players that were high on the wish list here were not high enough on the Cowboys list. They didn't even feel strong enough about their 1st pick that they wouldn't risk losing him by trading down.

The Cowboys are not true handicappers.

 

[Diehardblues]

Given this team's inability to assess defensive talent in recent years, I'm okay with drafting quantity. The odds of them targeting the right players with fewer picks was not high. They're better off throwing several at the wall and hoping a few of them stick.

Regardless, it would be wise to pick a philosophy and stick to it. Changing schemes in a pandemic year was asinine and we saw the results. Now they're changing again, so expect more growing pains. Hopefully they'll get more time to implement it this offseason.

Not only did we change schemes last year but we let 4 starters walk in FA as well which is rarely brought into the conversation.

When you take 37% of the starters off an already average to below average squad you should expect some setback.

 

[ItzKelz]

Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.

Totally disagree with the Quantity vs Quality. Defensively this may be the best draft pound for pound we ever had.

We got plenty of quality in the draft defensively specifically to our most needs on defense against the run where we needed it most. We got defensive run stoppers at tackle which will be needed if we are running a 3-4. The best downhill run defender in Micah and most are saying we got the best coverage LB with Jabril.

Yes we had a lot of holes in the secondary; one being safety that I personally do not think we addressed but BMF shut down the Heisman trophy winner and everyone seems to just ignore that fact and we may very well be good at corner for the next 8-9 years. And heck if Wright can get Right in this scheme that fits him or at least in Quinn's mind then we may have the sleeper corner of the draft.

 

[DandyDon52]

I don't disagree with you on the Jones stuff. We have 30 years or so of their "plan"

I was merely taking about Quinn, it's clear he has a plan and putting it into action. Just my opinion though, we will see once the season starts

yes Quinn.> Jones boys
To be honest, I thought jones boys were going to make quinn fix the defense they had and use whatever guys they picked.
So if they let him choose these def guys, then that is a plus.
I was fairly sure wright was a guy quinn wanted , and that is why they picked him somewhat early.
I figure maybe quinn wanted to be sure and get him, and or maybe they knew another team was interested?

We have never had any tall corners, and now we have 2 I think.
Also it was apparent they favored guys who had ability to find the ball and get it. They chose guys who are more likely to get turnovers.

 

[doomsday9084]

Not popular but please don't shout me down.

The Steelers have been running a 3-4 since, like, the early 70's. More specifically, they went to the "Blitzburgh" style attacking 3-4 early in Cowher's tenure in the early 90's and have been running the same type of scheme since. Its really ingrained into the organization. They know what kind of player will work for them and it has allowed them to draft well.

The Cowboys clearly have no attachment to any system. Jerry seems to generally prefer the 4-3 that he won super bowls with but he doesn't seem to understand why it worked. He never tried to replace Woodson, Lett, Maryland, Hennings, Casillas, etc.

The end result is that the DC has a tremendous amount of control over how well the team does on defense . . . but he is frequently saddled with players from the previous DC that don't work for him. Its a treadmill of disappointment.

I like the things that Quinn has had to say. I'm not in love with the draft but don't think its terrible. That said, the Cowboys are going to have to stick with this for a while to get it to work. I don't think they have the patience.

 

[Bobhaze]

Not popular but please don't shout me down.

The Steelers have been running a 3-4 since, like, the early 70's. More specifically, they went to the "Blitzburgh" style attacking 3-4 early in Cowher's tenure in the early 90's and have been running the same type of scheme since. Its really ingrained into the organization. They know what kind of player will work for them and it has allowed them to draft well.

The Cowboys clearly have no attachment to any system. Jerry seems to generally prefer the 4-3 that he won super bowls with but he doesn't seem to understand why it worked. He never tried to replace Woodson, Lett, Maryland, Hennings, Casillas, etc.

The end result is that the DC has a tremendous amount of control over how well the team does on defense . . . but he is frequently saddled with players from the previous DC that don't work for him. Its a treadmill of disappointment.

I like the things that Quinn has had to say. I'm not in love with the draft but don't think its terrible. That said, the Cowboys are going to have to stick with this for a while to get it to work. I don't think they have the patience.

Well said!

 

[Starforever]

It's disgusting to watch their smiles in the face of so much failure like they're winning.

Just a true slap in the face to us fans.

I will not spend a dime on their product.
Whoever bought a LVE jersey, any jersey! got sucked.

Whoever buys those season tickets?
Parcells wants to smack you.

Ah well... at least I have you guys.

While others are playing chess, the Jones, are playing Craps.

 

[Rockport]

Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.

Totally disagree with your take. As far as the defensive picks it was completely targeted in obtaining players that Quinn wanted in order for him to build the type of defense he wants. You’re completely backwards on this.

 

[Colombiacowboy]

Since the Cowboys last raised a Lombardi trophy in a locker room back in ‘95, we have hired 8 defensive coordinators, including 4 DCs in 9 years: Dave Campo, Mike Zimmer, Brian Stewart, Rob Ryan, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Mike Nolan, and now Dan Quinn.

And this team has also changed defensive schemes multiple times- From the 90s 4-3 to the 3-4 under Parcells and Phillips, then back to the 4-3, then the “hybrid” 4-3 (4-2-5?) under Nolan, and now back to the 4-3 under Quinn. This team changes defensive philosophies like underwear.

It’s hard to build a defense when you don’t even know what kind of defense you are trying to be. So what kind of defense is this team trying to become?

I like some of the players we drafted. But watching the draft last weekend, our FO appeared to favor QUANTITY over QUALITY. Having 11 draft picks was nice going into this draft, but instead of targeting players of QUALITY and using some of those 11 picks to move up and target more impactful players, the Cowboys seemed to be caught flat footed on several occasions.

Several teams made trade ups, using 3rd, 4th and 5th rounders....seems like we could have had a better draft with 8 players of higher quality than 11 players of seemingly lesser quality. When you know what you’re trying to be, it’s easier to know who you want.

While I will not disagree with you that the FO repeatedly seems clueless about personnel (and over-valuing their own), I am not sure I would characterize this draft as quantity over quality. The problem is that none of us really know how these players will actually perform. A first round guy can be a bust as can a 6th round guy become a Hall of Famer. There is a lot of data out there, and we can study what players did at the collegiate level, but pro football is a different animal. Place and time are key for player success. Would Brett Favre have become the superstar he did if he stayed in Atlanta? Would Ryan Leaf had sucked so bad if he had played under a coach like Walsh or Belichick?

 

[Colombiacowboy]

While others are playing chess, the Jones, are playing Craps.

More like dominoes.