Quality Wins- a look at the contenders

[aria]

I get that but mostly this league is all of the same caliber with the exception of those 3 teams. Even if the Cowboys were undefeated right now the knock on them would be "They haven't beaten anyone". They've lost to teams of their caliber. Panthers, Seahawks, Texans, Commanders, Titans....all of the same ilk. But are they any better then the teams we have beaten? Are they that much better than the Eagirls or Falcons? Or Lions? The only team of a different class that we have on the schedule is the Saints and we haven't gotten to them yet.

True, you also left out the Steelers though. I also think there are other teams that have the same record as us but have a tougher schedule, outside of the AFCE, we may be in the worst division in the league and even that may be close.

Somewhat relevant to your point, you’re probably right about if we were undefeated what people would say and unless they consistently beat the teams they “should” beat by a decent amount and/or lost a close game or two to better teams then I would probably be one of them. For example, I think Houston is pretty good but not as good as their record indicates. Outside of J’ville, this team has struggled just to beat the bad teams on our schedule. I’d like to see a few scores against some of the teams left on our schedule where we win by 14-20 points, not by a few.

I’m not arguing with you, I get what you’re saying, I’m just speaking from my personal perspective of what would give me more confidence in this team and be less skeptical. If we have are really that good and have nothing but teams with losing records left, let’s start seeing scores that reflect that.

 

[Verdict]

Wins aren’t a granular enough statistic for the purpose of telling how good teams are. A lot of these games are separated by fgs or dumb penalties. Mediocre teams can get good players back and make a run. That ATL team we just beat us a pretty good example of how that might work out. They have a good team with a rash of injuries to good players.

Yeah. That's correct. When you play that team also makes a lot of difference as does urgency.

It was a tall order beating both Philly and Atlanta. Both of those teams were desperate for a win just like we were and we beat them on the road. That's HUGE.

 

[Verdict]

The Cowboys haven't really been throttled this year in any game. The games the Cowboys have lost have arguably ALL been lost by tripping over their own feet rather than just getting man handled.

 

[Risen Star]

Beating the Eagles coming off of a bye at Philly and then beating the Falcons on their field the next week qualifies as two quality wins to me. I don't care what the current record says. That isn't easy to do.

And when you combine the two that is more impressive to me than just a single win like the Steelers beating the Panthers.

That's not to say I think the Cowboys are better than the Steelers. They're not.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Funny thing is if we beat the Commanders then they will technically not be a winnning team and we will still not have beaten a winning team...

They would be 6-5........ How would that not be a winning record

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Beating the Eagles coming off of a bye at Philly and then beating the Falcons on their field the next week qualifies as two quality wins to me. I don't care what the current record says. That isn't easy to do.

And when you combine the two that is more impressive to me than just a single win like the Steelers beating the Panthers.

That's not to say I think the Cowboys are better than the Steelers. They're not.

Maybe, but Pittsburg really struggled and almost lost against a team we beat 40-7.

 

[Bobhaze]

Maybe, but Pittsburg really struggled and almost lost against a team we beat 40-7.

Individual games are not always a big indicator of patterns.

 

[kskboys]

Individual games are not always a big indicator of patterns.

I think you were being nice and really meant "never are".

 

[kskboys]

Maybe, but Pittsburg really struggled and almost lost against a team we beat 40-7.

NE lost to TENN.

 

[adamknite]

Of the teams that are above .500 only 4 have multiple wins against "quality teams"... That to me shows me all I need to know about this idea of judging a team based on "quality" wins. A win is a win IMHO all you can do is play the games.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Individual games are not always a big indicator of patterns.

True but I have heard Pittsburgh was so good but yet Dak went to their house and beat them. Different season I get it but Pittsburg isn't done unstoppable force

 

[Irvin88_4life]

NE lost to TENN.

That's my point, the NFL is crazy and until these teams play each other it's all speculation who would win.

 

[aria]

The Cowboys haven't really been throttled this year in any game. The games the Cowboys have lost have arguably ALL been lost by tripping over their own feet rather than just getting man handled.

You could say the same thing about some of the teams we beat. Atlanta has the 3rd worst defense and they throw a bomb down the sideline, giving us way too much time, dumb clock management. Detroit had (maybe still does) the worst rushing defense and they score leaving 2:24 left on the clock, poor clock management. Had either one of those coaches had some common sense, we could easily be sitting here already thinking about next years 2nd round pick.

 

[Diehardblues]

So far in the 2018 NFL season, there are clearly 18 teams that can be considered “contenders” based on records after 10 games. Of those teams,11 have winning records, 7 have an even .500 record going into the final stretch of the season.

What I want to do with this thread is look at the number wins each “contender” has against an opponent with a winning record. Call these quality wins.

Here are the teams with winning records ranked by how many wins they have against teams with winning records.

1. Saints (9-1 record) 3 wins against winning teams
2. Rams (9-1) 3 wins against winning teams
3. Patriots (7-3) 3 wins against winning teams
4. Chiefs (8-2) 2 wins against winning teams
5. Steelers (7-2-1) 1 win against winning teams
6. Bears (7-3) 1 win against winning teams
7. Texans (7-3) 1 win against winning teams
8. Commanders (6-4) 1 win against winning teams
9. Chargers (7-3) 0 wins against winning teams
10. Panthers (6-4) 0 wins against winning teams
11. Vikings (5-4-1) 0 wins against winning teams

It’s clear the Saints, Rams, and Pats have shown they can beat good teams. The teams that have 0 wins against winning teams may be silent “pretenders”.

Here are the teams at .500 that could be contenders, and how many wins against winning teams they have-

1. Ravens (5-5) 2 wins against winning teams
2. Titans (5-5) 2 wins against winning teams
3. Colts (5-5) 1 win against winning teams
4. Dolphins (5-5) 1 win against winning teams
5. Cowboys (5-5) 0 wins against winning teams
6. Seahawks (5-5) 0 wins against winning teams
7. Bengals (5-5) 0 wins against winning teams

Of these teams, the Ravens and Titans have 2 wins against winners.

What does all this mean? Well that can be debated, but it’s pretty clear that teams like the Saints, Rams and Pats are clearly a cut above. It’s also clear in the coming weeks, more teams will be eliminated from the contender list. The Cowboys have a chance to beat a “winning team” in the skins on Thursday. They have a chance oclimb this ladder.

This is a great analysis and obviously you spent some time compiling . While the Cowboys haven’t beat a team above .500 we did beat .500 team in Philly , Titans and an Atlanta team looking to go to .500 which brings another scenario into these equations.

Do we count these wins and losses with the teams current records or their record at the time we beat them?

While we might beat a winning record team tomorrow the Skins may not have a winning record by seasons end.

There’s a pretty good chance the only teams at the end of the year we played with a winning record will be Saints , Texans and Panthers.

I wonder if we’ve ever made the playoffs without beating a team with a winning record?

 

[G2]

This is a great analysis and obviously you spent some time compiling . While the Cowboys haven’t beat a team above .500 we did beat .500 team in Philly , Titans and an Atlanta team looking to go to .500 which brings another scenario into these equations.

Do we count these wins and losses with the teams current records or their record at the time we beat them?

While we might beat a winning record team tomorrow the Skins may not have a winning record by seasons end.

There’s a pretty good chance the only teams at the end of the year we played with a winning record will be Saints , Texans and Panthers.

I wonder if we’ve ever made the playoffs without beating a team with a winning record?

I don't think it makes as big a deal as some think. You have to factor in that you beat the team. It contributes to their losing record. Also, the time of the season you played them. What if they were 8-0, you beat them and at the end of the season they were 8-8?

 

[percyhoward]

Beating the Eagles coming off of a bye at Philly and then beating the Falcons on their field the next week qualifies as two quality wins to me. I don't care what the current record says. That isn't easy to do.

Eagles, Falcons, and Lions are all 4-6. The only thing that makes them "losing teams" is that we beat them.

 

[irishline]

So far in the 2018 NFL season, there are clearly 18 teams that can be considered “contenders” based on records after 10 games. Of those teams,11 have winning records, 7 have an even .500 record going into the final stretch of the season.

What I want to do with this thread is look at the number wins each “contender” has against an opponent with a winning record. Call these quality wins.

Here are the teams with winning records ranked by how many wins they have against teams with winning records.

1. Saints (9-1 record) 3 wins against winning teams
2. Rams (9-1) 3 wins against winning teams
3. Patriots (7-3) 3 wins against winning teams
4. Chiefs (8-2) 2 wins against winning teams
5. Steelers (7-2-1) 1 win against winning teams
6. Bears (7-3) 1 win against winning teams
7. Texans (7-3) 1 win against winning teams
8. Commanders (6-4) 1 win against winning teams
9. Chargers (7-3) 0 wins against winning teams
10. Panthers (6-4) 0 wins against winning teams
11. Vikings (5-4-1) 0 wins against winning teams

It’s clear the Saints, Rams, and Pats have shown they can beat good teams. The teams that have 0 wins against winning teams may be silent “pretenders”.

Here are the teams at .500 that could be contenders, and how many wins against winning teams they have-

1. Ravens (5-5) 2 wins against winning teams
2. Titans (5-5) 2 wins against winning teams
3. Colts (5-5) 1 win against winning teams
4. Dolphins (5-5) 1 win against winning teams
5. Cowboys (5-5) 0 wins against winning teams
6. Seahawks (5-5) 0 wins against winning teams
7. Bengals (5-5) 0 wins against winning teams

Of these teams, the Ravens and Titans have 2 wins against winners.

What does all this mean? Well that can be debated, but it’s pretty clear that teams like the Saints, Rams and Pats are clearly a cut above. It’s also clear in the coming weeks, more teams will be eliminated from the contender list. The Cowboys have a chance to beat a “winning team” in the skins on Thursday. They have a chance oclimb this ladder.

This is a nice stat but I would be more interested in seeing these teams records against winning teams, not just wins. Looking at this I have no idea if the Dolphins played more games then the Cowboys did. If Dallas played 2 teams with winning records and went 0-2, but the Dolphins played 4 and went 1-3 that is different than just saying the Dolphins beat 1 team and Dallas didn't.

 

[irishline]

Eagles, Falcons, and Lions are all 4-6. The only thing that makes them "losing teams" is that we beat them.

Well that and the other 5 teams they lost to.

Losing to the Panthers by 4, or losing to the Titans in overtime could also be the only thing that makes the Eagles a losing team. The same could be said of the other two teams you listed I am sure.

Not diminishing our wins, just pointing that out.

 

[percyhoward]

Well that and the other 5 teams they lost to.

While each team that beat them can say "they're only a losing team because we beat them," there probably aren't three different teams they can say that about.

 

[irishline]

While each team that beat them can say "they're only a losing team because we beat them," there probably aren't three different teams they can say that about.

True. But that doesn't change the fact that they lost to 5 other teams so therefore we are not the only reason they are a losing team.

I wasn't trying to diminish our wins, just pointing out that if they had beat the teams they could/should have Dallas would not be the reason they are a losing team.