Question regarding the history of Mara of the Giants

[CanadianCowboysFan]

It started with the salary cap penalty imposed on the Cowboys and Skins. They didn't break any actual rules but got penalized anyway.

Reports were widespread that Mara pushed it through with Goodell and the other owners.

Yeah how can you have a cap penalty in an uncspped yewr.

 

[Plankton]

You hit it right on the head here. Wellington Mara who passed away in 2005 didn't care for the way Jerry ran business in the 90's. The Mara's and The Jones Family have always had bad blood between each other. They both have taken shots at each other for years. And I'll even include Steve Tisch who always likes to take his shots at the Cowboys as well. I still remember when Mara said "its nice to arrogance humbled" when the Giants beat the Cowboys in the playoffs in 07.

His arrogance humbled comment was in 1996. Wellington Mara died in 2005.

 

[plymkr]

Please tell me if I ever get in your bad side - so that I can apologize.

My advice to you is to stay away from the flat earth society.

 

[robbieruff]

My advice to you is to stay away from the flat earth society.

I am turning in my member card today.

 

[xwalker]

DAL did exactly what they weren't supposed to do with Miles Austin's contract and the contract was put the way it should have been.....there was no penalty

We stole 10m of cap space and paid back 10m of cap space

A lot of DAL fans looked for the boogeyman to blame instead of our FO and they picked Mara

DAL should have just dumped bad contracts in 2010 like everyone else did....we tried to get cute and got our hand smacked....no biggie

It was collusion to not allow the Cowboys and Skins to do it. The NFLPA could have made a stink about it but didn't.

The government could have gotten involved but didn't. I assume because the NFLPA didn't complain.

On a side note, the NFL could consolidate into a single company with owners just being shareholders with bonuses for how much their division (team) of the company makes. That would make them immune from collusion. They could then unilaterally set player wages.

People would cry foul and call it a monopoly but it would not really be one. Other people would be free to start their own leagues and customers would be free to choose. Owners would never do it because of their egos but they could drastically cut player wages if they did but only to the point that other leagues could still not compete to hire their players.

 

[CowboyStar88]

It started with the salary cap penalty imposed on the Cowboys and Skins. They didn't break any actual rules but got penalized anyway.

Reports were widespread that Mara pushed it through with Goodell and the other owners.

Yep this right here

 

[Nightman]

It was collusion to not allow the Cowboys and Skins to do it. The NFLPA could have made a stink about it but didn't.

The government could have gotten involved but didn't. I assume because the NFLPA didn't complain.

On a side note, the NFL could consolidate into a single company with owners just being shareholders with bonuses for how much their division (team) of the company makes. That would make them immune from collusion. They could then unilaterally set player wages.

People would cry foul and call it a monopoly but it would not really be one. Other people would be free to start their own leagues and customers would be free to choose. Owners would never do it because of their egos but they could drastically cut player wages if they did but only to the point that other leagues could still not compete to hire their players.

DAL clearly tried to manipulate the system for greater impact in 2011 when there was a salary cap

There was no collusion because no one was told to spend less........DAL could have signed Lebron James for 100m for one year if they wanted to.... this is just another case Cowboys fans love to cry about and frankly it makes us look weak

 

[Nightman]

Yeah how can you have a cap penalty in an uncspped yewr.

it wasn't a penalty it was a correction

if you fail to pay $1000 in taxes and the IRS says pay me $500 for the next 2 years that is not a penalty

that is a gift

 

[xwalker]

DAL clearly tried to manipulate the system for greater impact in 2011 when there was a salary cap

There was no collusion because no one was told to spend less........DAL could have signed Lebron James for 100m for one year if they wanted to.... this is just another case Cowboys fans love to cry about and frankly it makes us look weak

Are you saying that they could have signed Austin for 1 year, 17M if it was just a 1 year contract, but because the 17M salary in the uncapped year was part of a contract that extended into capped years that it was a problem?

I get that the Cowboys and Skins were going against the spirit of the league cooperative but I still don't see how it was not collusion.

If there was never an NFL salary cap, the league could not make any agreements on spending limits for player wages because that would definitely be collusion.

 

[Nightman]

Are you saying that they could have signed Austin for 1 year, 17M if it was just a 1 year contract, but because the 17M salary in the uncapped year was part of a contract that extended into capped years that it was a problem?

I get that the Cowboys and Skins were going against the spirit of the league cooperative but I still don't see how it was not collusion.

If there was never an NFL salary cap, the league could not make any agreements on spending limits for player wages because that would definitely be collusion.

The directive was to not do anything in the uncapped year that gave you a clear advantage when the cap came back.......because everyone knew it was coming back in 2011

DAL re-wrote Austin's contract like 3 times between 2010 and 2011......they did exactly what they were told not to do.......it didn't cost anyone any money, it just manipulated the salary cap like a restructure would do....

The league simply corrected the mistake....the collusion case was weak because the whole salary cap is negotiated collusion like you said.....it was like a recess appointment by the POTUS....he can do it but it is sneaky and usually overturned immediately

 

[bsbellomy]

The directive was to not do anything in the uncapped year that gave you a clear advantage when the cap came back.......because everyone knew it was coming back in 2011

DAL re-wrote Austin's contract like 3 times between 2010 and 2011......they did exactly what they were told not to do.......it didn't cost anyone any money, it just manipulated the salary cap like a restructure would do....

The league simply corrected the mistake....the collusion case was weak because the whole salary cap is negotiated collusion like you said.....it was like a recess appointment by the POTUS....he can do it but it is sneaky and usually overturned immediately

I find it comical that you want to take a "rules are rules" approach with Gregory, but on this case you want to try and interpret the "spirit" of rules that don't exist.

 

[Nightman]

I find it comical that you want to take a "rules are rules" approach with Gregory, but on this case you want to try and interpret the "spirit" of rules that don't exist.

I haven't seen anything that makes me believe something is wrong in the Gregory case

I generally side with the players in these type of appeals like OScandrick, LJohnson, LBell, RRice, APeterson, GHardy but I have nothing to work with with Gregory

Show me some evidence he why he failed or a legitimate reason he missed a test and I will listen....anything

 

[RJ_MacReady]

The Saints and the Raiders did not front load their players contract. They were in dispute with the NFL for the other things. The Cowboys and Commanders were docked money they could not use for FA those two years. Snyder and Jones were smarter than 30 other owners and were penalized accordingly. Jones is a forward thinking owner when it comes to the business side of things.

Went back and googled and I came up with several reports that stated that all 4 teams did indeed "play with funny money", but that WAS and DAL were the biggest offenders. The "Bounty Gate" was a separate issue as was the punishment (suspensions, loss of draft picks and $500K fine to the team). That had nothing to do with their uncapped year violation. The Raiders wanting to move? Well...why shouldn't they (heh) and how could the punishment be anything other than voting against it?

 

[RJ_MacReady]

The directive was to not do anything in the uncapped year that gave you a clear advantage when the cap came back.......because everyone knew it was coming back in 2011

DAL re-wrote Austin's contract like 3 times between 2010 and 2011......they did exactly what they were told not to do..

I guess it's the 19 years of Military experience in me (in-depth A.I.s, T.O., O.I.s, etc), but as far as the league is concerned, there has to be written guidance/by-laws, peer-reviewed/agreed upon by all parties (owners and players), to operate under or else you leave room for interpretation/improvisation on how to meet the objective. There was no salary cap that year and there was no assurance that the following year would've had one locked-in either between the owners and NFLPA.

"Verbal directives" don't cut it. First off, these are owners... not employees. You can't direct them to do anything they didn't all agree upon themselves (w/NFLPA). And that has to be in writing to add teeth to it to levy punishment amongst their peers that may go rogue. The other owners that didn't take advantage of this, because they were loyal, scared, or too cheap like the Bengals They had no one to be mad at but themselves and the NFLPA for not coming to an agreement and leaving the door open for "improvisation".

The time to redress was when the contracts initially passed through NFL Commissioners office to be vetted and approved. They were approved....done deal. The owners should've taken it up with the head office's incompetency if they had a problem.

 

[Nightman]

I guess it's the 19 years of Military experience in me, but as far as the league is concerned, there has to be written guidance/by-laws, agreed upon by all parties (owners and players), to operate on or else you leave room for interpretation/improvisation on how to meet the objective. There was no salary cap that year and there was no assurance that the following year would've had one locked-in either between the owners and NFLPA.

"Verbal directives" don't cut it. First off, these are owners... not employees. You can't direct them to do anything they didn't all agree upon themselves (w/NFLPA). And that has to be in writing to add teeth to it to levy punishment amongst their peers. The other owners that didn't take advantage of this, because they were loyal, scared, or too cheap like the Bengals They had no one to be mad at but themselves and the NFLPA for not coming to an agreement and leaving the door open for "improvisation".

The time to redress was when the contracts initially passed through NFL Commissioners office to be vetted and approved. They were approved....done deal. The owners should've taken it up with the head office's incompetency if they had a problem.

Nice story but there are plenty of things that aren't in writing that aren't allowed...you can't have a rule for every not yet imagined transgression..... that is why the commissioner is giving broad powers

The Cowboys did wrong and were called on it........it wasn't major and the solution wasn't major....... DAL saved 10m in cap space with the Austin shenanigans and they paid back 10m in cap space......Cowboy fans have cried and whined about for over 5 years.....everyone comes up with a million excuses and technicalities but it doesn't change anything......they did it and got caught....THE END

 

[muck4doo]

Nice story but there are plenty of things that aren't in writing that aren't allowed...you can't have a rule for every not yet imagined transgression..... that is why the commissioner is giving broad powers

The Cowboys did wrong and were called on it........it wasn't major and the solution wasn't major....... DAL saved 10m in cap space with the Austin shenanigans and they paid back 10m in cap space......Cowboy fans have cried and whined about for over 5 years.....everyone comes up with a million excuses and technicalities but it doesn't change anything......they did it and got caught....THE END

You're right. Collusion is nothing major. Sweep it under the rug folks! Nothing to see here! Mara and bkight13 say it is okay. There be spirits and ghosts that need protecting.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

Nice story but there are plenty of things that aren't in writing that aren't allowed...you can't have a rule for every not yet imagined transgression..... that is why the commissioner is giving broad powers

The Cowboys did wrong and were called on it........it wasn't major and the solution wasn't major....... DAL saved 10m in cap space with the Austin shenanigans and they paid back 10m in cap space......Cowboy fans have cried and whined about for over 5 years.....everyone comes up with a million excuses and technicalities but it doesn't change anything......they did it and got caught....THE END

"Nice story"? Give examples of "plenty of things that aren't in writing that aren't allowed". It's damn hard to find basis in punishing someone/an entity for an infraction that wasn't expressed beforehand that you couldn't foresee until after it happened. There's a reason we have a billion laws on the books...or else someone is going to go boink a neighbor's chicken somewhere in Arkansas and get away with it because there isn't a law about "consented sex with avian dinosaurs" .

That's the reason the NFL has whatever blanket violation the league has for "player misconduct" (or whatever they call it) for when a player performs an act outside of that which is stated in the stated rules...whether it be league/local/state/federal laws. I'm no hot-shot Tom Cruise Lawyer (********...YOU can be my Wingman), but I've lived my adult life under nothing but written rules and sat in some Court Martials. Somehow, I don't recall vague statements like "it wasn't major", they "did wrong", "technicalities", and "they did it" being used as a basis of "THE END" for a defendant.

BTW, I've notice over the past month (and maybe I haven't really paid attention over the years) but you are quite the constant contrarian when in comes to justice towards the Cowboys. Has anyone expressed this to you (written or, in your case, ... verbally)?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

DAL did exactly what they weren't supposed to do with Miles Austin's contract and the contract was put the way it should have been.....there was no penalty

We stole 10m of cap space and paid back 10m of cap space

A lot of DAL fans looked for the boogeyman to blame instead of our FO and they picked Mara

DAL should have just dumped bad contracts in 2010 like everyone else did....we tried to get cute and got our hand smacked....no biggie

There was no CBA allowing the owners to collude to control wages with a cap. That was the entire point of an uncapped year: give the owners a taste of real free market.

The owners colluded anyway and were able to get away with it by making a condition of the CBA that the NFLPA would waive any potential case rights.

The person in charge of the commission that enforced the collusion was Mara. It is what it is.

Jerry could very well have sued and won easily but that would have hamstrung them in future CBA negotiations and trash the league's image. He didn't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Of course the DoJ hasn't done much of anything regarding trust and collusion litigation since the 1970s.

The moral of the story here is you cannot trust the NFL yet here you are once again playing the corporate stooge. Apparently free market is great until it detracts from corporate power.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

DAL clearly tried to manipulate the system for greater impact in 2011 when there was a salary cap

There was no collusion because no one was told to spend less........DAL could have signed Lebron James for 100m for one year if they wanted to.... this is just another case Cowboys fans love to cry about and frankly it makes us look weak

They sent out a memo to not violate the cap that was supposed to be secret. It is what it is.

Complaining over a violation of rule of law is not weak. To do otherwise is to become a doormat to tyrants.

 

[theogt]

Did you mean to type that the Saints and Raiders did not restructure (front-load) player contracts or that they did? I have no idea how they "violated" the uncapped year, but I know that the Cowboys restructured Austin's contract to front-load a lot of his bonus money during the non-capped year. Either way, if all 4 teams were deemed taking advantage of the BS "Gentlemen's Agreement", then they all needed to be punished in the same theme (respective hits to their future cap-space). Their punishment of being left-out of the share of money poached from WAS and DAL is nothing like getting your salary cap getting chopped while trying to field a team.

That "gentlemen's agreement" was in fact illegal. As in, against the law. But when the final CBA was agreed, the NFLPA agreed not to sue the league for it in exchange for something like reduced practice schedules. Funny thing is, the NFLPA didn't really care if the league penalized teams illegally, so it was an easy thing to agree to by the NFLPA. And of course the other 29 or so teams that didn't get penalized were going to agree to it, because it helped them competitively.

The league is shady. In fact, when the contracts were entered into, the league APPROVED them (as is required of every NFL player contract). So the league approved the contracts then, after the fact, penalized teams for entering into the approved contracts -- all in violation of federal law.