Question/Rumor

[Beast_from_East]

Some have proposed a 1st and a 2nd next year which is the equivalent of 1st in 2009 and a 1st in 2010.

I think it is too much for a guy who we will end up paying full-market value for and will have lost the "cheap" years after he is drafted.

If we can work out some sort of a sign-and-trade with them getting TNew and us getting Roy + 2nd or 3rd rounder that wouldn't be a bad deal. Pro Bowl CBs are more valuable than Pro Bowl WRs. Given the age difference, maybe a straight swap would be more palatable for Detroit.

Jerry has got to learn to avoid being over-desperate. Lions are probably convinced he'll cave and give up a Herschel Walker type package.

Why would we give up Newman, he has not given up a TD in like 2 years.

I offer picks only and maybe a backup or two. Starters are off-limits.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Phily has also been a team that has got value by trading vets for valuable draft picks.

We should be considering a strategy to get picks for TNew if he is too expensive and the CBs we drafted work out. If Sheppard nets a 1st, maybe Tnew can net us a 1st and a 2nd after we franchise him. All this is predicated on having Jenkins, Pacman and Scandrick/Ball step up. I really dont't think it is worth it to invest in stutdown CBs anymore given their asking price. Better just to have good ones that are found in the draft and invest money elsewhere in the roster.

Newman hasnt given up a TD in like 2 years and you want to trade him?

WOW

 

[skinsscalper]

Newman hasnt given up a TD in like 2 years and you want to trade him?

WOW

You might want to check your facts there, bro.

 

[Eskimo]

Why would we give up Newman, he has not given up a TD in like 2 years.

I offer picks only and maybe a backup or two. Starters are off-limits.

How many $10M/yr players can you have on one team?

We already have alot of high-priced players:

Romo: average $11M/yr
TO: average $8M/yr
Flo: average $7M/yr
Davis: average $7M/yr
Gurode: average $6M/yr
RoyW: average $5M/yr
Witten: average $5M/yr
Henry: average $5M/yr

Now the following numbers are being thrown around:

TNew: $10M/yr
Ware: $12M/yr (Freeney/Allen type money)
Barber: $8M/yr (LJohnson type money)
Hamlin: $7M/yr (comparable to other top safeties)
Canty: $5M/yr (going rate for DEs)

Now I realize things fluctuate depending on how cap dollars are allocated per year but just looking at that we're talking $96M/yr and that is only for 13 players of a 53-man team. The cap this year is projected to be somewhere around $120M if I remember correctly.

Obviously, everyone is not going to be re-signed in the end. You can only shift around cap dollars so much before it begins to catch up on you. We have been saddled with some dead money from Parcells dips into FA in the form of Rivera, Ferguson and Ayodele. People are talking about having to bite the bullet on RoyW and Henry soon. Cutting Roy will also create quite a bit of dead money.

The advantage of keeping picks is that is a source of cheap players as rookies who aren't drafted in the top 10 picks or so usually have fairly cheap contracts compared to vets on their 2nd and 3rd deals. We have really got to be careful about not squandering picks because we need a continued influx of young, cheap talent through the draft. We would also be wise to start looking at who can be let go with least impact on the team's performance.

TNew is a great player but I just don't think shutdown CBs are worth the going rate of $10M/yr because of the liberalization of PI rules and the trend towards spread offenses which dilutes the impact of any single DB on the field. However, if Sheppard can get a 1st, TNew can hopefully get us much more than that which we could use on another player - maybe a safety, WR or CB to fill the hole of another player who we can't afford to keep.

The teams that stay on top seem to make a habit of this sort of long-term planning (Philly, NE, Indy, Pitt).

 

[jswalker1981]

Some have proposed a 1st and a 2nd next year which is the equivalent of 1st in 2009 and a 1st in 2010.

I think it is too much for a guy who we will end up paying full-market value for and will have lost the "cheap" years after he is drafted.

If we can work out some sort of a sign-and-trade with them getting TNew and us getting Roy + 2nd or 3rd rounder that wouldn't be a bad deal. Pro Bowl CBs are more valuable than Pro Bowl WRs. Given the age difference, maybe a straight swap would be more palatable for Detroit.

Jerry has got to learn to avoid being over-desperate. Lions are probably convinced he'll cave and give up a Herschel Walker type package.

Actually, if we had traded our 2009 1st and 2nd round picks, they would have had a value of 2nd and 3rd round picks this year. The value of future picks are degraded. They only go up as that particular draft approaches.

Also, ummm, I'm not sure that Roy is the only receiver available. Cincy drafted two WRs early, and the Cardinals drafted Early Doucet pretty high. So it isn't like the other two WRs are locked in place. Or at least that is what Jerry can tell Millen to keep the price down. I'm just more worried that the Eagles may get one of them. If they strike a deal for a WR before Jerry, than I can see Jerry selling more to get another WR.

 

[jswalker1981]

WR Roy Williams will be a free agent next year. I wouldn't even give Det a first or 2nd rd pick for him this year. Forget it. The Cowboys can win without Williams at WR.

I sort of agree, but if they franchise Roy, than we would still have to trade away picks for him. So, why not do it now, so we can have Roy today, instead of after the season???

 

[AmishCowboy]

Jacksonville better not give them a #1, The Eagles don't want Lito and he doesn't want to be there, they will take a #2 or 3 at some point in TC.

 

[TtownCowboy]

Great points guys. Thanks for the input. My thought is Detroit is not wanting pics they are wanting players. And knowing Detroit it's probably crazy. It could be Dallas is seeing how contract talks are going w/Newman, Barber, and Hamlin. If these guys are wanting crazy money, which one imho already is, they could go if Detroit is interested. I'm no cap afficianado, but i'd be trying to send Spears, Carpenter or Burnett and a pic next year.

 

[iceberg]

Great points guys. Thanks for the input. My thought is Detroit is not wanting pics they are wanting players. And knowing Detroit it's probably crazy. It could be Dallas is seeing how contract talks are going w/Newman, Barber, and Hamlin. If these guys are wanting crazy money, which one imho already is, they could go if Detroit is interested. I'm no cap afficianado, but i'd be trying to send Spears, Carpenter or Burnett and a pic next year.

well at least you knew to bring in "cap" as a qualifier on who can be traded. if only more would do such atrocities!!! : )

spears/carp for him? that and their #3 back? who knows what the end deal will be but i don't think jones is going to pay way too much for him if he does pull that trigger.

i would find it hard to believe that we'd offer say 28 for roy williams and be told no, that's a bologna sammich offer. i trust no talk when watching the show.

 

[Hostile]

Back when I first joined, I just figured him to be a sock that one of the mods had created and brought out when things got boring.

I quickly realized his posts werent nearly intelligent enough

Dude, you could post the Lions stats showing he had the 2nd most receptions. It wouldn't mean a thing to him.

You could then prove that at the time he went down with his injury he was their leading Receiver. It won't register.

The guy does not get it.

 

[lspain1]

Based on events up to now, it appears to me that acquiring Johnson is a much more likely event than Williams. For a team that wants to win right now, Dallas can not afford to wait for Williams to become an FA. Detroit has not shown themselves to be a willing partner, and Roy is an excellent asset for them. Johnson is, at best, a distraction for the Bengals and they will be looking for a way to get rid of him. We'll see.

 

[Hostile]

Based on events up to now, it appears to me that acquiring Johnson is a much more likely event than Williams. For a team that wants to win right now, Dallas can not afford to wait to Williams to become an FA. Detroit has not shown themselves to be a willing partner, and Roy is an excellent asset for them. Johnson is, at best, a distraction for the Bengals and they will be looking for a way to get rid of him. We'll see.

I am by far Roy Williams #1 shill on this site. I wouldn't dare deny it.

You are exactly right.

It does not mean either player will end up here. It could be either one. But it has sure been fun speculaitng about it.

 

[TtownCowboy]

Based on events up to now, it appears to me that acquiring Johnson is a much more likely event than Williams. For a team that wants to win right now, Dallas can not afford to wait to Williams to become an FA. Detroit has not shown themselves to be a willing partner, and Roy is an excellent asset for them. Johnson is, at best, a distraction for the Bengals and they will be looking for a way to get rid of him. We'll see.

Makes sense. I would just hate to see Johnson a Cowboy, unless he changed his tune the way TO has. Either way I think RW has loads more upside ie: age, character, and hands. I,m not even really a Horns homer. You just gotta love somebody that wants to play for the Boys coupled with that kind of talent.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Makes sense. I would just hate to see Johnson a Cowboy, unless he changed his tune the way TO has. Either way I think RW has loads more upside ie: age, character, and hands. I,m not even really a Horns homer. You just gotta love somebody that wants to play for the Boys coupled with that kind of talent.

I think that Chad is suffering from the same thing that TO was suffereing from.....

• At San Fran he was on a bad team = didnt want to lose anymore.
• In Philly, winning cured alot - but Donovan put himself before team and winning = TO wanted out = another losing situation
• TO is on a good team and is winning... helping the team win

Chad wants the same thing as point #3



I really would be surprised if Roy or Chad are not Cowboys before all is said and done.

Very.
Surpised.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Dude, you could post the Lions stats showing he had the 2nd most receptions. It wouldn't mean a thing to him.

You could then prove that at the time he went down with his injury he was their leading Receiver. It won't register.

The guy does not get it.

:laugh2: