Quick Offensive Line Report

honyock

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I missed the game live but just watched all the offensive snaps a few times, so here is my impression of the O-line play. Smith and Free played only the first series, and after that series I concentrated mainly on the interior line play...the two backup tackles didn't look good that I saw but I was focusing more on the interior guys.

First off, I thought the interior, with three different combinations throughout the game, did a solid job of creating push, creating lanes, and for the most part keeping the pocket clean. For most of the first half it was Leary-Frederick-Arkin. The last series of the first half, Costa took over at center and Fred slid to RG. After one long series in the 3rd quarter, Arkin replaced Fred at RG and he stayed there the rest of the game. I don't think Leary ever subbed out - he played the whole game at LG.

Leary - I was really impressed with him. I know it is preseason game 1, but he looked in this game at least like someone who has the ability to hold down a guard spot here as long as his knees hold up (hopefully for several years). If he gave up a pressure in the passing game, I missed it...he looked strong and didn't have much of a challenge in protection. In the run game, my notes after several plays were more or less "This guy is strong". He didn't pull as much as Arkin did, but he had several chances to get to the second level and was effective. He looked plenty agile and athletic enough. Between Tyron (who looked good in run blocking in his limited snaps) and Fred, that left side has some potential to get really good push. He and Smith had a little miscommunication in handing off men on a stunt in the first series. But other than that, I can't remember any negative plays from him, and there were plenty of positive plays.

Frederick - Very solid night at center. The guy is strong. The two negatives I recorded at center were not getting out to his block on a screen (and almost getting the running back killed), and getting beat and losing his sealout that led to a run getting blown up in the third series. Other than that, he got good push in the run game, was pretty active in the second level, and had no problems at all in protection. He's got an anchor like an oak tree.

I thought he struggled when he slid to guard. If I counted correctly, he was in for six pass plays and got beat on two of them. On one, he was lucky not to give up a sack. On the second, his guy collapsed the pocket and Tanney couldn't step up when he got tackle pressure. He also got blown back on a running play in that same series. He seemed to have trouble getting beat by quickness at guard, and I didn't see that at center. Maybe just a limited sample size at this point. He just looked more in command at center.

Arkin - lots of good from him, with some concern about strength that keeps following him around. In general, he looked good in zone blocking, good at the second level, effective in pulling...when he was on the move, he was really pretty solid. When he had trouble, it was with anchoring. He got pushed back in Orton once in protection, and got pushed back badly in the run game twice in the first half. He did better in the second half. I was pretty impressed with everything else about his game, it's just that strength thing. It only showed up on a few plays, but enough to be worrisome.

Costa - he was okay. He got bulled back 3 or 4 times, and whiffed on a blitzer once. He looked pretty good in space in the running game. He looked like a decent backup center.

In general, right now, I'd prefer the Leary-Fred-Arkin combination to Leary-Costa-Fred, even though both units were effective. This is a one-game knee-jerk on my part, but I want Fred at center, no doubt about it.. In just this game, I thought Costa-Fred was a slight downgrade at both positions as compared to Fred-Arkin, although I still have my concerns about Arkins strength.

I'd love to see that Smith-Leary-Fred left side here for years to come. I know I'm over-reacting after one preseason game, but I'm excited about what w have in Leary.
 

Fla Cowpoke

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You might be right. Frederick looked better at center than guard. There still is Bernadeau that could take RG, and if not I would go with Arkin or Costa there. We need another T unless Parnell or Bell get healthy.
 

OhSnap

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I think your being nice with Arkin but I didn't watch all the snaps specifically. I don't like to toss a guy out on one game but it really looked bad the times he was drivin into the backfield. Wouldn't want to see him for a whole game in the regular season.
 

JoeyBoy718

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I agree with everything you said too.
Obviously, Smith is the guy at LT (though I think we'll have more problems with our tackles this season than the interior).
I'm not so sold on Free yet. I've been hearing he's been impressive this training camp. Also been hearing that Parnell wasn't impressive when healthy. I can see RT being the biggest hole on the OL.
I had faith in Costa and was an advocate for Costa at C and Fred at RG, but after seeing how good Fred is, we need to play him at C. He's the C for the next 10-15 years. Put him there and keep him there. It looks like Costa might end up being an overpaid backup.
Speaking of Costa, he might be (might be) one of our 5 best OL, but he's never played RG and that's probably the only spot he has a chance of playing. It looks like RG will end up being a battle between Arkin and Bern. I'd like Arkin to be the guy because I hated what I saw in Bern last season, but I'm not so sold on Arkin yet because of the strength issue. He is heavily improved so maybe he starts this season and improves in strength as the season progresses.
LG seems to be between Livings and Leary, and it looks like Leary will be the guy. I feel the same for Livings as I do for Costa. I think he might be one of our 5 best OL, but the only position he plays is where someone younger and better plays.
Depth chart is:
LT- starter: Smith, backup: that guy from the Eagles... LG- starter: Leary, backup: Livings... C- starter: Fred, backup: Costa... RG- starter: Arkin, backup: Bern... RT- starter: Free, backup: Parnell
 

JoeyBoy718

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I still wanna see what we have in that guy we got from the Eagles. I'd feel more comfortable if we had another guy who could push Free and Parnell. Weems and Coughlin are not making the team.
 

nfldraftbites

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Frederick looked like a young Nick Mangold at Center. Interesting to see Callahan mixing Man (pulling backside Guard) & Zone looks. Ability to be multiple is a huge asset, and the personnel looked flexible. Leary looked tremendous. It's only preseason game 1, but he's a lock to earn a roster spot. Hearing about how he & Livings (Knee) were rotating with the first unit in Training Camp; I assumed it was due to reintegrating Livings back in after the offseason surgery.

With Bernadeau, he's going to have difficulty unseating Leary at Guard. The question is do you slide Leary to Right Guard, or can Livings play that side with limited pre-season reps. Arkin looked goo at Right Guard, but what tonight showed was the emphasis on the Right Guard being able to pull & wrap around. The strength will be to the left side, and mobility at Right Guard is vital.

Right Tackle- Surprised to see Free has his hands on the starting position. Especially after Mr. Jones voiced optimism about Parnell at that spot entering camp. Will anxiously await the 2nd preseason game to see if they move Free into the RG spot. Again, that's where they're going to want the mobile pull/trap player.

Frederick held up at Right Guard, but looked far more comfortable at center. Shows better athleticism than he's given credit, the ability to anchor, and obviously he's a smart kid that understands the game.

What you have in Tyron Smith & Travis Frederick are two foundational pieces. Now the job will be filling in around them, which appears ahead of schedule. I'm hoping Leary locks down the LG spot, and competition between Arkin, Free, Parnell & Arkin happens for the RT-RG combination, with the best player prevailing. It's really the best combination, but I don't think Frederick is an ideal Right Guard. So that pretty much relegates Costa to the bench.
 

honyock

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I agree with everything you said too.
Obviously, Smith is the guy at LT (though I think we'll have more problems with our tackles this season than the interior).
I'm not so sold on Free yet. I've been hearing he's been impressive this training camp. Also been hearing that Parnell wasn't impressive when healthy. I can see RT being the biggest hole on the OL.
I had faith in Costa and was an advocate for Costa at C and Fred at RG, but after seeing how good Fred is, we need to play him at C. He's the C for the next 10-15 years. Put him there and keep him there. It looks like Costa might end up being an overpaid backup.
Speaking of Costa, he might be (might be) one of our 5 best OL, but he's never played RG and that's probably the only spot he has a chance of playing. It looks like RG will end up being a battle between Arkin and Bern. I'd like Arkin to be the guy because I hated what I saw in Bern last season, but I'm not so sold on Arkin yet because of the strength issue. He is heavily improved so maybe he starts this season and improves in strength as the season progresses.
LG seems to be between Livings and Leary, and it looks like Leary will be the guy. I feel the same for Livings as I do for Costa. I think he might be one of our 5 best OL, but the only position he plays is where someone younger and better plays.
Depth chart is:
LT- starter: Smith, backup: that guy from the Eagles... LG- starter: Leary, backup: Livings... C- starter: Fred, backup: Costa... RG- starter: Arkin, backup: Bern... RT- starter: Free, backup: Parnell

I'd agree with you on the depth chart at this point, except maybe right guard. I'm guessing that unless he starts having problems he didn't show tonight, left guard is Leary's now. As for RG/Arkin/Bern, I guess it depends on how healthy Bernardeau is. When I watched him in detail last year, I thought he was a slightly stronger, slightly less athletic version of Arkin. I kept seeing him getting bulled into the pocket and didn't think he gave that great a push in the run game. And like I said earlier, I was impressed with Arkin on the move tonight.

If Bern and Arkin show up about equally, I'll bet the coaching staff will lean to Bern, to have a veteran in there. I'm looking forward to the next couple of weeks of practice to see how the two of them compare and who the coaches seem to be favoring.
 

myslamsareolder

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Frederick looked like a young Nick Mangold at Center. Interesting to see Callahan mixing Man (pulling backside Guard) & Zone looks. Ability to be multiple is a huge asset, and the personnel looked flexible. Leary looked tremendous. It's only preseason game 1, but he's a lock to earn a roster spot. Hearing about how he & Livings (Knee) were rotating with the first unit in Training Camp; I assumed it was due to reintegrating Livings back in after the offseason surgery.

With Bernadeau, he's going to have difficulty unseating Leary at Guard. The question is do you slide Leary to Right Guard, or can Livings play that side with limited pre-season reps. Arkin looked goo at Right Guard, but what tonight showed was the emphasis on the Right Guard being able to pull & wrap around. The strength will be to the left side, and mobility at Right Guard is vital.
dude there is no way livings is a starter for this team imo... cant stay healthy and was terrible last year. I think the line is either Leary-Frederick-Arkin or Leary-Frederick-Bernie.
 

iceberg

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some say they just want the best 5 up front.

i've disagreed from the very statement.

the center anchors the line. makes the calls. more or less is the star of the line. frederick has shown to be smart, can make the calls, and can "see" what is going on. we've not had that in a long long time. the center QB's the line.

frederick can do that. no one else we have, can.

let him be our center and we spend a few years building around him. not lobbing 5 guys on the wall to see what sticks.
 

JoeyBoy718

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some say they just want the best 5 up front.

i've disagreed from the very statement.

the center anchors the line. makes the calls. more or less is the star of the line. frederick has shown to be smart, can make the calls, and can "see" what is going on. we've not had that in a long long time. the center QB's the line.

frederick can do that. no one else we have, can.

let him be our center and we spend a few years building around him. not lobbing 5 guys on the wall to see what sticks.

I agree. I was on the "best 5 bandwagon" up until tonight. What I saw was an elite caliber (potentially) center who made everyone on the line better. Even if Costa might be a top 5 lineman, a combo of Costa at C and Fred at RG is far worse than Fred at C and anyone at RG because Fred is so important at C. I like Jerry's philosophy (that he was explaining after the draft) of spending premium picks on LT and C and developing the rest of the line.
 

iceberg

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I agree. I was on the "best 5 bandwagon" up until tonight. What I saw was an elite caliber (potentially) center who made everyone on the line better. Even if Costa might be a top 5 lineman, a combo of Costa at C and Fred at RG is far worse than Fred at C and anyone at RG because Fred is so important at C. I like Jerry's philosophy (that he was explaining after the draft) of spending premium picks on LT and C and developing the rest of the line.

the C makes the calls. directs the line. frederick was the top C on the board when we drafted him. to do the "best top 5" is to continue in the land of average OLs. he's smart. the last smart C we had was step.
 

honyock

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some say they just want the best 5 up front.

i've disagreed from the very statement.

the center anchors the line. makes the calls. more or less is the star of the line. frederick has shown to be smart, can make the calls, and can "see" what is going on. we've not had that in a long long time. the center QB's the line.

frederick can do that. no one else we have, can.

let him be our center and we spend a few years building around him. not lobbing 5 guys on the wall to see what sticks.

I'm right there with you on this. It really showed tonight.
 

honyock

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Bern was getting 1st team snaps in practice when he came back.

I think that both he and Arkin were splitting first team reps, from the reports I read. I"m expecting Bern to get lots of time at first team RG this week though, so they can see what they have in him when (at least theoretically, anyway) he's healthy.
 

iceberg

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I'm right there with you on this. It really showed tonight.

we've all suffered through bad OL play through the years. tonight this OL put up 170+ rushing yards and all RBs looked good.

that's the line. period.

i would still prefer a solid vet be brought in, but you can't deny miami played their starters longer and our starters never saw the field. the OL did ok. not great, but ok.

frederick should be C period. the debate of him at guard should be pushed aside and let go.

we don't need our best 5. we need our best.
 

JoeyBoy718

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I agree. LT and C are set. I say we have competitons for the other 3 spots. Leary vs Livings for LG. Bern vs Arkin for RG. Free vs Parnell for RT. They have 4 more preseason games to make their case.

So far +1 for Leary, Arkin and Free based on health. +2 for Leary based on health and dominant performance.
 

iceberg

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I agree. LT and C are set. I say we have competitons for the other 3 spots. Leary vs Livings for LG. Bern vs Arkin for RG. Free vs Parnell for RT. They have 4 more preseason games to make their case.

So far +1 for Leary, Arkin and Free based on health. +2 for Leary based on health and dominant performance.

weems did some stupid stuff, but i also saw him fly into the mix and try. i'm not after him to be a starter, but can he play?

jury out - not a bad or good night. will see what unfolds.
 
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