Quick Offensive Line Report

[Kaiser]

Great post by the first poster, I think the biggest takeaways from this game (by a wide margin) are that Leary and Fred look capable of starting and the team will still be fine if DeMarco Murray get injured.

The big challenge for rookie linemen is the mental side and Frederick clearly looks like he can handle it. That is huge. Leary being able to claim a starting spot will be big as well. I'm not worried about Arkin because I only want him to claim a backup spot and add more strength this year.

I also thought that we would have won 2 more games last year had Murray stayed healthy or if we had a capable backup, and tonight we had three guys look like that kind of RB who could step in a few games if the starter goes down.

 

[iceberg]

frederick looks like a genius pick. when i heard the name called, i was cussing out gods who's names i didn't even understand. we needed someone we heard of, we needed "sexy" - we needed....

who they took.

he's smart, a bulldozer, and everything an NFL center should be.

anyone wanting to be ok w/him at guard - stop. he's a natural center and can mentally and physically handle the job.

 

[Idgit]

Good stuff.

I think we're seeing the beginnings of the line start to gel. It's pretty much just the RG spot that's up for grabs now, isn't it? I can't see Parnell coming in this late and pushing a healthy Free for snaps at this point.

 

[Verdict]

When you analyze how the line performed tonight you have to keep in mind that the OL wasn't playing against a first rate stating defensive line. The interior of our offensive line are likely to be our starters so they should be able to handle a second tier DL that isn't game planning against them.

With that being said, I would think that Smith and Frederick will be solid players for us. I think you can also pencil Leray in as a starter. I'm sorry but Arkin didn't really impress me at all tonight. I think Costa is a very valuable backup at center but a more marginal guard. He is a lock for he roster but is best used as a backup swing player. If we don't get a healthy and capable starter out of Livings, Berny, Arkin, or Killa this line will be very tentative on one of the guard spots. I'm not sure what we are going to have at right tackle, but hopefully Free or Parnell will play up to snuff.

At this point I don't think we will have a dominant OL but maybe a serviceable line. If we could add another player like Frederick at guard next year or at the final roster cut down this year we should be looking to do so.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

When you analyze how the line performed tonight you have to keep in mind that the OL wasn't playing against a first rate stating defensive line. The interior of our offensive line are likely to be our starters so they should be able to handle a second tier DL that isn't game planning against them.

With that being said, I would think that Smith and Frederick will be solid players for us. I think you can also pencil Leray in as a starter. I'm sorry but Arkin didn't really impress me at all tonight. I think Costa is a very valuable backup at center but a more marginal guard. He is a lock for he roster but is best used as a backup swing player. If we don't get a healthy and capable starter out of Livings, Berny, Arkin, or Killa this line will be very tentative on one of the guard spots. I'm not sure what we are going to have at right tackle, but hopefully Free or Parnell will play up to snuff.

At this point I don't think we will have a dominant OL but maybe a serviceable line. If we could add another player like Frederick at guard next year or at the final roster cut down this year we should be looking to do so.

The Miami DL is alot better than you give them credit for in this post.

As for next year, you have to build from premium positions first if you have a need there. With the age of the DL and the status of Spencer, a pass rusher is almost a lock for next offseason with most likely our first round pick. We will build our OL around Fred and Tyron but there is no reason to go nuts there when we have other needs on this team.

Give me a pass rusher (premium position) over a guard everyday and twice on Sunday, especially given our needs for the future.

 

[honyock]

weems did some stupid stuff, but i also saw him fly into the mix and try. i'm not after him to be a starter, but can he play?

jury out - not a bad or good night. will see what unfolds.

Well, I'm a glutton for punishment. I just went back and watched Weems' snaps. He had a tough assignment...he was facing Dion Jordan most of the night, and Jordan looks to have some legit game as a pass rusher. Weems actually held his own okay in run blocking. He got some decent push at times and managed to get in the way enough to be useful at other times. He struggled with Jordan's quickness - I saw a sack, a near sack, a hands to the face penalty, a false start, and I'm probably forgetting something. But he was a gamer...considering his competition (a top 5 pick), at least he didn't get his quarterbacks killed. Note exactly a ringing endorsement, but hey.

I tried to talk myself into going back and watching Coughlin, but couldn't do it.

 

[Verdict]

I'm

The Miami DL is alot better than you give them credit for in this post.

As for next year, you have to build from premium positions first if you have a need there. With the age of the DL and the status of Spencer, a pass rusher is almost a lock for next offseason with most likely our first round pick. We will build our OL around Fred and Tyron but there is no reason to go nuts there when we have other needs on this team.

Give me a pass rusher (premium position) over a guard everyday and twice on Sunday, especially given our needs for the future.

I'm just saying I think we may still have a hole at one of the guard spots. Hopefully one of the guys will emerge and/or get healthy enough to adequately fill the other guard spot. I was saying that with Smith, Leary and Frederick we may have a good nucleus in place but we might be dominant if we were to be able to grab another player of Frederick's caliber at guard in next years draft.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I'm just saying I think we may still have a hole at one of the guard spots. Hopefully one of the guys will emerge and/or get healthy enough to adequately fill the other guard spot. I was saying that with Smith, Leary and Frederick we may have a good nucleus in place but we might be dominant if we were to be able to grab another player of Frederick's caliber at guard in next years draft.

True, but Fred was a first rounder, so getting a player of his caliber would come at a steep price. The OL has plenty of youth at this point with 2 first rounders in the last 3 years, we desperately need youth on the DL and some real talent at safety. Trying to make one unit on a team perfect will make the rest of the team suffer.

 

[Verdict]

Y

True, but Fred was a first rounder, so getting a player of his caliber would come at a steep price. The OL has plenty of youth at this point with 2 first rounders in the last 3 years, we desperately need youth on the DL and some real talent at safety. Trying to make one unit on a team perfect will make the rest of the team suffer.

It is possible to get a good guard in the second or third rounds. I'm not ruling out the possibility that we already have the pieces in place but as of now..... Im hopeful but not yet sold on that.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

It is possible to get a good guard in the second or third rounds. I'm not ruling out the possibility that we already have the pieces in place but as of now..... Im hopeful but not yet sold on that.

Yeah we agree on that, we are really close on the OL with all the youth there right now to them being pretty good. All we can do is wait and see how they develop cause if Arkin can get better, any of them can.

 

[Verdict]

Yeah we agree on that, we are really close on the OL with all the youth there right now to them being pretty good. All we can do is wait and see how they develop cause if Arkin can get better, any of them can.

I am curious .... are you buying in that Arkin is the answer at the other guard spot? "The answer" in this context not only means he gets the nod as a starter but fills the role as a quality starter. Thoughts?

 

[honyock]

I am curious .... are you buying in that Arkin is the answer at the other guard spot? "The answer" in this context not only means he gets the nod as a starter but fills the role as a quality starter. Thoughts?

I know you directed this at Deep Freeze, but here's my thoughts on it: I could see either Bernardeau or Arkin, whoever wins the starting job, be the weakest of the five starters. That's assuming that Free has a rebound year, which isn't a slam dunk. I"m thinking it comes down to those two. It looks like they envision their RG to be mobile and active and quick, pulling a fair amount of the time, and I'd think that rules out Livings getting healthy and switching from LG to RG. I'd be surprised if his knee will ever let him be mobile enough to pull that off. I can't see Costa winning a job at RG. I can't see Kowalski getting healthy and taking that away from Bern or Arkin.

So I'd think it's one of those two. I know I'm probably anointing Leary and Fred too soon after one preseason game, but they both showed things tonight that I never saw in Bern last year. The main thing I'd want to see in Bern is the ability to anchor and play with some power that I didn't think he played with last year. If he hasn't improved on that, then I could see Arkin beating him out, if the coaches give him a shot. I just don't know about "quality starter". Maybe "adequate starter" that can still get better and stronger as he goes. If the line does turn out to be solid, then him being adequate, even if he's the weakest link, may not be so bad.

 

[Verdict]

I know you directed this at Deep Freeze, but here's my thoughts on it: I could see either Bernardeau or Arkin, whoever wins the starting job, be the weakest of the five starters. That's assuming that Free has a rebound year, which isn't a slam dunk. I"m thinking it comes down to those two. It looks like they envision their RG to be mobile and active and quick, pulling a fair amount of the time, and I'd think that rules out Livings getting healthy and switching from LG to RG. I'd be surprised if his knee will ever let him be mobile enough to pull that off. I can't see Costa winning a job at RG. I can't see Kowalski getting healthy and taking that away from Bern or Arkin.

So I'd think it's one of those two. I know I'm probably anointing Leary and Fred too soon after one preseason game, but they both showed things tonight that I never saw in Bern last year. The main thing I'd want to see in Bern is the ability to anchor and play with some power that I didn't think he played with last year. If he hasn't improved on that, then I could see Arkin beating him out, if the coaches give him a shot. I just don't know about "quality starter". Maybe "adequate starter" that can still get better and stronger as he goes. If the line does turn out to be solid, then him being adequate, even if he's the weakest link, may not be so bad.

I think this is a pretty sound educated guess. It also closely mirrors my thought process based on the camp reports and what we saw tonight in limited action. It is obviously a limited sample size.

I think we have very good quality backup type type of players at guard who can spot start, but right now I don't think we have two starters at guard unless you move Fred and I am against that.

I think with Livings being injured (and also Killa and Berny) it really makes it hard to know what we have. This injury may have put a nail or two in Livings' coffin so to speak. It probably also gave Killa a little bit of life and a chance to make the roster that he may not have gotten otherwise.

 

[honyock]

I think this is a pretty sound educated guess. It also closely mirrors my thought process based on the camp reports and what we saw tonight in limited action. It is obviously a limited sample size.

I think we have very good quality backup type type of players at guard who can spot start, but right now I don't think we have two starters at guard unless you move Fred and I am against that.

I think with Livings being injured (and also Killa and Berny) it really makes it hard to know what we have. This injury may have put a nail or two in Livings' coffin so to speak. It probably also gave Killa a little bit of life and a chance to make the roster that he may not have gotten otherwise.

Yeah, agreed, at this point the only thing keeping Livings his job this year might be the cap hit to let him go. It's frustrating that Bern has basically missed the first two weeks of camp, but it did give Arkin a ton of time with the 1's and lots of snaps tonight, so they know more what they have in him. I'm expecting to see for the next week, maybe two, that Bern takes over more of the 1st team snaps at RG, so they can see where he is at. Then we'll probably start getting Broaddus or Vela or others slipping in tidbits about who the coaches favor, and that'll be that, one way or another.

 

[Idgit]

I'm still hoping Bernadeau comes back and has a relatively uneventful rest of camp. He really had a bum start last year with the surgery and the scheme/team change and then having to hit the ground running early with no camp reps and a revolving door at C (well, it had stopped revolving with Cook by that point) and basket case at RT next to him. He was close to getting benched, early, but settled down quite a bit by late in the season. A good 3-4 weeks playing alongside the same guys would probably put him in a much better position going into the year. He's a much stronger player than Arkin is, with ok mobility. I think he could hold down the fort there for us if we could just keep him healthy.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

the C makes the calls. directs the line. frederick was the top C on the board when we drafted him. to do the "best top 5" is to continue in the land of average OLs. he's smart. the last smart C we had was step.

Agreed. It seemed to me that starting left side looked good with Frederick in at C. I can handle those guys and am somewhat cautiously optimistic about them, assuming Leary holds up.

I'm not at all optimistic about that right side but we'll see.

 

[marchetta]

Great read. I agree with everything you said.

Yep. That's how I saw it as well. Fred's much better at C than G. Let Costa ride the bench.

 

[Jersey]

Interior of line was solid all night. Tackles did struggel at times but it jumps out more at those spots during pass blocking.
I like the push Leary was getting in running game. I've been skeptical of him, but thats 'cause he had no pedigree at this level to embrace.
Fredrick looked solid as well. Did see one blatent hold on a run play that he goyt away with. However, CLEARLY and upgrade at center.
Arkin did OK. Still PLENTY of room for all to improve.

 

[burmafrd]

The Beard is our Center. That has been pretty much decided.
Leary looked really good at guard- better than I had hoped.

Arkin. Still the anchor/strength problem but not as bad as I had feared.
Bernie is stronger but not as quick when healthy.

Really a bummer that Arkin probably is never going to get the necessary anchor strength to be a really good guard.
But he seems like he can be a decent guard with good agility. You can cover up one not so good player on the O line. I guess Arkin will be ours - as long as Free has his head on straight.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I'm still hoping Bernadeau comes back and has a relatively uneventful rest of camp. He really had a bum start last year with the surgery and the scheme/team change and then having to hit the ground running early with no camp reps and a revolving door at C (well, it had stopped revolving with Cook by that point) and basket case at RT next to him. He was close to getting benched, early, but settled down quite a bit by late in the season. A good 3-4 weeks playing alongside the same guys would probably put him in a much better position going into the year. He's a much stronger player than Arkin is, with ok mobility. I think he could hold down the fort there for us if we could just keep him healthy.

He got unfairly trashed last year because sdo much was out of his control. He certainly has a chance to make up for it this year.