Rams-style running attack

waldoputty

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some of us have been pushing for the jet-sweep motion type rushing attack that has a lot of deception.
yes, the same one that got our defense so confused all game

what would be needed to implement such an offense besides hiring mcvay?
a new OC?
zeke should be fine?
cooper fast enough, austin fast enough?
on the one jet sweet austin ran, it was stuff for a big loss.
what is the rams scheme doing right that cowboys coaches cannot figure out???
 

sean10mm

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You can't really separate how they run from how they pass. Part of the Rams success is making it hard to separate the pass and the run before the ball is snapped. It's beneficial for runs should look like passes and your passes should look like runs. If you always run out of the I and pass out of the shotgun you're just giving the defense an easier day at the office - the less they have to think the faster and more decisively they have to act. None of this is particularly new, the Rams just put more effort into their play design and how they mix up what they do so the defense has to keep thinking instead of just reacting to obvious tells.

Then if they diagnose the pass or run correctly, there is often another layer of deception built into the play - who gets the handoff (RB? FB? WR on a sweep/reverse/etc.? QB keeper?) or the pass (where receivers run overlapping routes to create legal rubs and line up in various bunches to get DBs stuck in traffic)? By themselves none of these things are magic, but the idea is you just pile up uncertainty on the defense so they either a) hesitate and get whipped, or b) guess wrong and give up the easy chunk play.

It's not that Dallas literally never runs a jet sweep or whatever, it's that they treat any kind of misdirection as an oddball trick play instead of a basic part of running an NFL offense. Good playcalling is making the defense's job harder than just lining up and whacking the nearest guy on the other side.
 

Typhus

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With the Current OC staff?
Zeke is minimalized.
Attempting to copy cat teams utilizing the advantage of the jet sweep with a cheap attempt signing of Tavon has shown its value.
Better to start focusing on the importance of surrounding our future 25 million dollar franchise QB with limited passing abilities with several that actually have the talent to fit Linehans system, if we are stuck with his 1990 offensive philosophy.
 

waldoputty

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You can't really separate how they run from how they pass. Part of the Rams success is making it hard to separate the pass and the run before the ball is snapped. It's beneficial for runs should look like passes and your passes should look like runs. If you always run out of the I and pass out of the shotgun you're just giving the defense an easier day at the office - the less they have to think the faster and more decisively they have to act. None of this is particularly new, the Rams just put more effort into their play design and how they mix up what they do so the defense has to keep thinking instead of just reacting to obvious tells.

Then if they diagnose the pass or run correctly, there is often another layer of deception built into the play - who gets the handoff (RB? FB? WR on a sweep/reverse/etc.? QB keeper?) or the pass (where receivers run overlapping routes to create legal rubs and line up in various bunches to get DBs stuck in traffic)? By themselves none of these things are magic, but the idea is you just pile up uncertainty on the defense so they either a) hesitate and get whipped, or b) guess wrong and give up the easy chunk play.

It's not that Dallas literally never runs a jet sweep or whatever, it's that they treat any kind of misdirection as an oddball trick play instead of a basic part of running an NFL offense. Good playcalling is making the defense's job harder than just lining up and whacking the nearest guy on the other side.

at a minimum, we can have jet sweep plays where the d does not know it is goes to zeke, the sweeper or stays with dak. the way the ram qb faked handoffs is not something we seemed to have done.
 

visionary

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You can't really separate how they run from how they pass. Part of the Rams success is making it hard to separate the pass and the run before the ball is snapped. It's beneficial for runs should look like passes and your passes should look like runs. If you always run out of the I and pass out of the shotgun you're just giving the defense an easier day at the office - the less they have to think the faster and more decisively they have to act. None of this is particularly new, the Rams just put more effort into their play design and how they mix up what they do so the defense has to keep thinking instead of just reacting to obvious tells.

Then if they diagnose the pass or run correctly, there is often another layer of deception built into the play - who gets the handoff (RB? FB? WR on a sweep/reverse/etc.? QB keeper?) or the pass (where receivers run overlapping routes to create legal rubs and line up in various bunches to get DBs stuck in traffic)? By themselves none of these things are magic, but the idea is you just pile up uncertainty on the defense so they either a) hesitate and get whipped, or b) guess wrong and give up the easy chunk play.

It's not that Dallas literally never runs a jet sweep or whatever, it's that they treat any kind of misdirection as an oddball trick play instead of a basic part of running an NFL offense. Good playcalling is making the defense's job harder than just lining up and whacking the nearest guy on the other side.

Great post
 

ABQCOWBOY

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If you watch that game again, all the misdirection and what not was a lot of nothing. The Rams pretty much ran it right down our throats, for the most part. Back a hundred years ago, when I was in HS, I played in the Delaware Wing TE. I was a Half Back in that Offense. It was predicated on a lot of misdirection but if you read your keys, then you could pretty much always know where the ball was going. The key to that Offense was the TE. Read the TE and you always knew if it was a run or a pass and if a run, where it was going. When we met teams who understood our Offense, it came down to executing blocks, making catches, making tackles and just who wanted it more.

As I watched that game last Saturday, I could not help but go back to my HS days because I was seeing the same exact thing out of the Rams Offense. They beat us, not with jet sweeps or exotic play calling. They beat us with man up blocking schemes that took advantage or our weakness. Our weakness, and it has been for as long as Garrett has been here, is our inability to adjust, in game. The Rams knew that if they could figure out a way to find something that was successful against us, they could beat us like a drum, all day, all night. We are a very good team but we don't have a great deal of experience and we are not good enough, as a team, to adjust to things on the fly. I mean, if I'm lying, I'm dying. I watched the Rams and it was very basic. The didn't do anything I haven't seen a thousand times. Seriously, nothing. They were better coached, better prepared and they had much more experience in some key areas.

I listen to fans, read posts and in todays game, youth is valued so much over experience, it's really one of the biggest differences in how the game is seen today. I believe that the game was better years ago and that the teams were better years ago. Now, I know that a lot of fans will not agree with me but let me tell you why. Today, youth is valued because the younger the cheaper against the cap. The cap is really what has been the catalyst for all of this IMO. You can't keep teams together long enough for them to really become proficient in any scheme. Used to be that you drafted players and you developed them for years. They learned their craft and they added to it, year over year. You really became a system player because you stayed in the same system, year over year. Today, that doesn't happen. What you have are players moving so often that it's tough to teach a player enough to really and truly make them great in any given system. They either have the natural ability to just outclass the guy across from them or they don't. This is why both sides of the ball are really dumbed down, for lack of a better term. I know many of you think that todays game is so much more complicated but honestly, it's not. Yeah, OCs throw more at you because if you can not really teach all aspects of any given thing, then you try to confuse all the more but it's really all the same stuff. Nothing new has been introduced, into the game of football, for the aspect of actually playing the game in 60 years. What's changed are the rules of the game and the financial drivers that force change. The game itself is the same. If players were allowed to actually learn the craft and the scheme, the could easily stop a lot of this stuff you see OCs rolling out. It doesn't take long for an OC to figure out that certain plays aren't going to work, once you blow them up a couple of times. You then get down to what your team can actually do and not what your team can try to do to confuse the other team because if you are well coached and well prepared, you aren't going to be able to confuse them. You essentially spend a lot of wasted time on new plays that won't work and that's on both sides of the ball. That is why I say that teams were better then then they are now. Not talking about Athletes here. I'm talking about actual teams.

What we saw last week was an example of this IMO. We faced a team that was better prepared. They were just better then we were. There talent is not really all that much better then ours is, IMO. There QB is a better passer but if you hit him, he looks a lot worse then Dak does if you hit Dak. There OL is not close to as talented as our is, even in our current state. There RB is not better then ours is. They might have a better one two then we do but there best guy and our best guy, it's a wash at best IMO. There WRs might be a little bit better then ours are but I'll take Gallup and Coop over there top two guys any day. There DLine has more talent then ours does, I can't argue that. Our LBs are way more talented and I think that our talent in the Secondary is also better but they were prepared. We were not and to me, that's the end of it.

Same exact thing as when I first started playing football, back when I was a kid. The team who was prepared, the team that made plays and executed won the game. Desire is a big thing in this game and you hear it from the very first practice you ever suit up for. There is a reason for that and it's not just old BS talk.
 

waldoputty

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If you watch that game again, all the misdirection and what not was a lot of nothing. The Rams pretty much ran it right down our throats, for the most part. Back a hundred years ago, when I was in HS, I played in the Delaware Wing TE. I was a Half Back in that Offense. It was predicated on a lot of misdirection but if you read your keys, then you could pretty much always know where the ball was going. The key to that Offense was the TE. Read the TE and you always knew if it was a run or a pass and if a run, where it was going. When we met teams who understood our Offense, it came down to executing blocks, making catches, making tackles and just who wanted it more.

As I watched that game last Saturday, I could not help but go back to my HS days because I was seeing the same exact thing out of the Rams Offense. They beat us, not with jet sweeps or exotic play calling. They beat us with man up blocking schemes that took advantage or our weakness. Our weakness, and it has been for as long as Garrett has been here, is our inability to adjust, in game. The Rams knew that if they could figure out a way to find something that was successful against us, they could beat us like a drum, all day, all night. We are a very good team but we don't have a great deal of experience and we are not good enough, as a team, to adjust to things on the fly. I mean, if I'm lying, I'm dying. I watched the Rams and it was very basic. The didn't do anything I haven't seen a thousand times. Seriously, nothing. They were better coached, better prepared and they had much more experience in some key areas.

I listen to fans, read posts and in todays game, youth is valued so much over experience, it's really one of the biggest differences in how the game is seen today. I believe that the game was better years ago and that the teams were better years ago. Now, I know that a lot of fans will not agree with me but let me tell you why. Today, youth is valued because the younger the cheaper against the cap. The cap is really what has been the catalyst for all of this IMO. You can't keep teams together long enough for them to really become proficient in any scheme. Used to be that you drafted players and you developed them for years. They learned their craft and they added to it, year over year. You really became a system player because you stayed in the same system, year over year. Today, that doesn't happen. What you have are players moving so often that it's tough to teach a player enough to really and truly make them great in any given system. They either have the natural ability to just outclass the guy across from them or they don't. This is why both sides of the ball are really dumbed down, for lack of a better term. I know many of you think that todays game is so much more complicated but honestly, it's not. Yeah, OCs throw more at you because if you can not really teach all aspects of any given thing, then you try to confuse all the more but it's really all the same stuff. Nothing new has been introduced, into the game of football, for the aspect of actually playing the game in 60 years. What's changed are the rules of the game and the financial drivers that force change. The game itself is the same. If players were allowed to actually learn the craft and the scheme, the could easily stop a lot of this stuff you see OCs rolling out. It doesn't take long for an OC to figure out that certain plays aren't going to work, once you blow them up a couple of times. You then get down to what your team can actually do and not what your team can try to do to confuse the other team because if you are well coached and well prepared, you aren't going to be able to confuse them. You essentially spend a lot of wasted time on new plays that won't work and that's on both sides of the ball. That is why I say that teams were better then then they are now. Not talking about Athletes here. I'm talking about actual teams.

What we saw last week was an example of this IMO. We faced a team that was better prepared. They were just better then we were. There talent is not really all that much better then ours is, IMO. There QB is a better passer but if you hit him, he looks a lot worse then Dak does if you hit Dak. There OL is not close to as talented as our is, even in our current state. There RB is not better then ours is. They might have a better one two then we do but there best guy and our best guy, it's a wash at best IMO. There WRs might be a little bit better then ours are but I'll take Gallup and Coop over there top two guys any day. There DLine has more talent then ours does, I can't argue that. Our LBs are way more talented and I think that our talent in the Secondary is also better but they were prepared. We were not and to me, that's the end of it.

Same exact thing as when I first started playing football, back when I was a kid. The team who was prepared, the team that made plays and executed won the game. Desire is a big thing in this game and you hear it from the very first practice you ever suit up for. There is a reason for that and it's not just old BS talk.

i seem to remember a lot of big plays on the sweeps
 

silvrNblue

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This is easy.... IF a team lines up to run a sweep and DOES so every time, I mean gosh it don't take a rocket scientist to figure that S*** out. OUR main and biggest issue is and has been the Dallas We lose in the 1st rnd Cowboys are as predictable as sharting in your drawers. It's this anemic, no imagination, its a process coaching staff. Period.
 

waldoputty

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Watch it again. Most of the damage in the run game was up the middle and not to the edge.

when i have the heart to watch, i will.
bottom line is their jet sweeps were not stuffed.

i think they had our defense not know what to defend with the misdirection and the formations/scheme that can go run or pass.
 

LocimusPrime

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Today's modern football is the same as today's workout fitness programs.

Most of these concepts were already used and developed along time ago but now they seem fresh.

Crossfit is pretty much a timed superset. Back in the day we would combine 2-4 different exercises and do them consecutively without rest - superset

Now there's a fit 40 or whatever where you try to keep your cardio level and intensity up - circuit training.

All old stuff with new twist. Football is the same
 

ABQCOWBOY

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when i have the heart to watch, i will.
bottom line is their jet sweeps were not stuffed.

i think they had our defense not know what to defend with the misdirection and the formations/scheme that can go run or pass.

Well, nothing they did on Offense was really stuffed IMO. Everything kinda worked IMO. But all of that was based off of a game plan that focused on controlling the middle of the field. If you ever rewatch that game, and I would not blame you if you didn't (not much about it was very pretty), you are going to see a clinic in how you win a football game. So many things the Rams did were basic ABCs of how to win. Control the Middle on both sides of the ball. Get the ball out, execute fundamentals, I could go on but there is no need. They were just better then we were.
 

silvrNblue

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Watch it again. Most of the damage in the run game was up the middle and not to the edge.
You are correct, when their Oline is blowing up our D line, it opened the cut back lanes and Gurly just waltzed right over us... think about it, they pounded us for 5 yds with CT, then CT again up the middle for 4, then Gurly would go for 35 and a score... we just got FLAT out played and out coached AGAIN. The poseter who said they knew all they had to do was find what worked against us, then keep doing it. Mcvey KNEW clapper, nor our OC or DC would adjust a damn thing.
 

waldoputty

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Well, nothing they did on Offense was really stuffed IMO. Everything kinda worked IMO. But all of that was based off of a game plan that focused on controlling the middle of the field. If you ever rewatch that game, and I would not blame you if you didn't (not much about it was very pretty), you are going to see a clinic in how you win a football game. So many things the Rams did were basic ABCs of how to win. Control the Middle on both sides of the ball. Get the ball out, execute fundamentals, I could go on but there is no need. They were just better then we were.

my question is if the deception slowed the defense down by a step, which may be all that is necessary to win the LOS.
 
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