Ramsey, what am I missing?

[CATCH17]

I've watched almost all of his tape from the past two seasons and I don't see a guy I would take at #4. I agree with you that he can effect the game in other ways than just creating turnovers, but so do quite a few other safety prospects who could be had much later. Ramsey isn't the best safety prospect or the best corner prospect. I would love to see him at SS for the Cowboys in a shallow zone role, but not with the #4 pick.

I agree that his being rated so highly is indicative of the weakness of this draft. Elite athletes without a position or production shouldn't/wouldn't be top-5 picks most years. That said, this isn't most years and you have to work with the draft that you've been dealt, so I wouldn't be shocked to see the Cowboys take him.

It's not just how he is playing now. You have to project what he can grow into and his potential is through the roof.

His position is DB. You put him at corner or safety and he is all pro.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

If it's so easy to avoid defensive playmakers at the college level, how do you explain the fact that there were 70+ FBS players with 4 or more ints in each of the last 8 seasons? Surely you don't think that's just a matter of luck? I'm not saying Ramsey is a bad player, I just don't think he's the kind of game changer teams should be looking for at the top of the draft. Imo he shouldn't be taken before the middle of rd 1.

It's the same thing with Antonio Cromartie. Much easier to get INT's if you have people throwing your way. Doesn't mean that you're all that great because teams will go after you if they believe they can burn you. The numbers just work in the offense's favor when it comes to a gambling cornerback like Cromartie. The same goes for the college game. Mo Claiborne had a lot of picks in college, didn't translate to the pros.





YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I think it might be the other way around, YR. Colleges, on average, throw it more....maybe way more.

But they don't throw it down field as often.

Some colleges distort the data with hyper-throwing or no huddle offenses that rack up plays. Outside of Clemson, FSU didn't play those teams. And DeShaun Watson threw the ball 491 times in 15 games. That's 32.7 attempts per game. The Skins threw it 34.7 attempts per game. The Pats threw it 39 times a game.



YR

 

[Plankton]

Ramsey is a definite talent who should be picked high. I think in a draft with deeper talent at the top, he wouldn't be a top four pick - but closer to the bottom of the top 10. I also think that he would be a better safety than corner in the NFL - with his range, hitting ability, ability to blitz and tackle, I think he's a better fit there.

 

[DFWJC]

Some colleges distort the data with hyper-throwing or no huddle offenses that rack up plays. Outside of Clemson, FSU didn't play those teams. And DeShaun Watson threw the ball 491 times in 15 games. That's 32.7 attempts per game. The Skins threw it 34.7 attempts per game. The Pats threw it 39 times a game.



YR

some FSU games...
Houston threw it 46 times
Wake threw it 42 times
Miami threw it 49 times
Clemson threw it 42 times
Florida threw it 39 times
Louisville 35
etc

but Syr only 24 times and G tech... threw it a whopping 10 times

 

[reddyuta]

Who else thinks he is not a natural catcher? if he was he would be a WR with that kind of athleticism.

 

[DFWJC]

Who else thinks he is not a natural catcher? if he was he would be a WR with that kind of athleticism.

The absolute most sought after WRs coming out of college are usually 6'2 or more.

He stands to get paid more playing in the secondary.

 

[Sydla]

He seems to have all the measurable and his tapes seem to indicate he can definitely play a little.

But 3 interceptions in 3 years is bizarre. And as I said in another thread, if you look at Top 15 CBs taken in the draft in the last decade, he'd have the lowest interception total of those CBs.

 

[texbumthelife]

It's not just how he is playing now. You have to project what he can grow into and his potential is through the roof.

His position is DB. You put him at corner or safety and he is all pro.

All players in the draft are projection, particularly this year. He definitely has All-Pro potential based on his athleticism. He is going to need to be in the right system though and I think he is definitely more suited to be a safety. He might be the fourth best corner in this draft is that was his only position.

Ramsey is a definite talent who should be picked high. I think in a draft with deeper talent at the top, he wouldn't be a top four pick - but closer to the bottom of the top 10. I also think that he would be a better safety than corner in the NFL - with his range, hitting ability, ability to blitz and tackle, I think he's a better fit there.

This is pretty much exactly what I said and how I feel. I think he is 10-15 talent in a more talented draft.

 

[Macnalty]

In the 2nd and 3rd tier yes, the defensive line is loaded. First tier not so much with only Bosa as a top 10 worthy pick. Thats what im talking about as far as how indictive Ramsey draft stock is as far as talent in the draft. It shows this is a very weak draft at the top

OK we disagree on the Dline aspect (Marinelli syndrome). I sincerely hope we do not see A.Billingsley, and JReed in the NFC east, Last time someone really jumped off the pages of the draft book was Clowney and we know how that went, these players are mostly in transition to greater enhancement of their traits for football and really if we wanted the best player it would be Tunsil but we are not looking for the best player we are looking for the best player that plays a position we need "now"... this is you looking at the draft from the perspective of the front with a half empty glass. We will be fine with our pick at four and we will keep watching the boys intently as ever. This emptiness between the combine and the draft day is too long, I think you will agree.

 

[texbumthelife]

It's the same thing with Antonio Cromartie. Much easier to get INT's if you have people throwing your way. Doesn't mean that you're all that great because teams will go after you if they believe they can burn you. The numbers just work in the offense's favor when it comes to a gambling cornerback like Cromartie. The same goes for the college game. Mo Claiborne had a lot of picks in college, didn't translate to the pros.





YR

Who were some highly drafted defensive back who came out of college with very low interception/turnover numbers and suddenly started getting them in the pros?

Clearly teams avoided throwing at Ramsey some, but the player also has showed a very suspect ability to turn and locate the ball, usually turning very late or not at all.

Everyone wants to throw out the Morris Claiborne example, but he is hardly the rule not to mention he has missed so much time at this point in his career, it's nearly impossible to really evaluate his ability. I am not saying the kid isn't a bust, but who knows what could've been.

 

[texbumthelife]

For posterity sake, Vernon Hargreaves was avoided at least as much as Ramsey and still managed 4 interceptions this year and 10 for his career. He also finished first in the SEC in passes defended (13) in 2015, which is astonishing considering the way teams game planned away from him. It's unfathomable to me how anyone can see Ramsey as a better corner prospect than Hargreaves.

 

[ghst187]

Appreciate the lively debate, I watched several FSU games and saw him play but never saw that eye popper so I genuinely wanted opinions as to why he is worth a top five pick, earl Thomas he was not.
Bad year to be picking so high from it sounds like, market relativity