Random observations from the game

[DLCassidy]

Don't mind me, I have to rant.

You can't win the Super Bowl in August. Last year Warner started out the season with the Giants very well. Then the sacks and fumbles started and the Giants had to pull him. Bledsoe was just the opposite. What people have to accept (or not) with Bledsoe is that he is what he is. He's like the white sharpshooter in basketball that needs screens run for him or he's useless. Bledsoe is not going to make plays on his own. He needs protection and he needs speed players to keep the blitz off him. And he needs an effective running game to minimize the 3rd and longs. Last year when he got McGahee and Evans in about the 5th week he stopped getting sacked much and the Bills went like 7-2 down the stretch. But he's not going to do anything if his receivers can't get open and he doesn't get 4 seconds to throw. Saturday night we couldn't run, we got into 3rd and long and we either couldn't protect him or noone got open. He won't just throw it up for grabs much and he can't run. So you punt 5 times in a row. If you told me that was how the rest of the offense was going to perform I'd tell you Bledsoe is about the last guy you'd want as QB. But even if you put Mike Vick back there that unit needs to raise it's level of play a ton for it to matter much anyway IMO.

 

[StateCollegeCowboy]

Good thing we did not use that logic last year with JJ.

You have to start somewhere with a player. And the best place to start is preseason.

And it may be a 4 lap race.....but he is off to a very good start coming out of the blocks.

I think he is earning a spot on the roster and he may end up being a good RB, but so far all I have seen is straight ahead speed. Time will tell, but I didn't see anything saturday night to say he is the best on our roster... just the fastest. He has got a lot to prove.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Don't mind me, I have to rant.

You can't win the Super Bowl in August. Last year Warner started out the season with the Giants very well. Then the sacks and fumbles started and the Giants had to pull him. Bledsoe was just the opposite. What people have to accept (or not) with Bledsoe is that he is what he is. He's like the white sharpshooter in basketball that needs screens run for him or he's useless. Bledsoe is not going to make plays on his own. He needs protection and he needs speed players to keep the blitz off him. And he needs an effective running game to minimize the 3rd and longs. Last year when he got McGahee and Evans in about the 5th week he stopped getting sacked much and the Bills went like 7-2 down the stretch. But he's not going to do anything if his receivers can't get open and he doesn't get 4 seconds to throw. Saturday night we couldn't run, we got into 3rd and long and we either couldn't protect him or noone got open. He won't just throw it up for grabs much and he can't run. So you punt 5 times in a row. If you told me that was how the rest of the offense was going to perform I'd tell you Bledsoe is about the last guy you'd want as QB. But even if you put Mike Vick back there that unit needs to raise it's level of play a ton for it to matter much anyway IMO.

Point is clearly being missed here.

In question, is not what Bledsoe is. I think everybody knows that he's a QB who needs a goodly amount of help to be succesful. I also think that everybody is aware of the fact that it's only one preseason game.

What's in question is, what is to be gained if our OL is bad this year? What does signing him bring to the table?

As for Warner, well, he played with a very bad offense last year in NY. I watched him and the decision to go with Manning was not unilaterally accepted by many people. Warner did not play all that badly last year. In fact, under the circumstances, I thought he did pretty well. Warner didn't get pulled because of sacks/INTs. Warner got pulled because they had Manning.

 

[Mike 1967]

I think he is earning a spot on the roster and he may end up being a good RB, but so far all I have seen is straight ahead speed. Time will tell, but I didn't see anything saturday night to say he is the best on our roster... just the fastest. He has got a lot to prove.

Agreed

But I did not say that he is "best on our roster"

I said..."he may be best on our roster".

I agree he has a lot to prove. But so far he has done that with every opportunity.

I have heard nothing but praising reports out of camp in regards to his ability to get to the corner. And then he puts it in action the first real game opportunity.

And...he puts in action on a day when nothing else (besides Romo to Witten) was successful for our offense.

At some point you have to let the rubber meet the road. I realize that there is a lot of road left. But so far this test drive has been a good one.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

I don't believe you.

But unfortunately I don't have a way to prove or disprove your point. I did not tape the game so I cannot go back on watch the sets.

But regardless, Warner still looked light years ahead of Bledsoe.

You would expect your QB to be able to have some success against 8 man fronts.

Just download Calico's vids. You can see the formations and such. I know that I saw Ware or the other outside LB repeatedly playing in coverage against WR's.

That normally doesn't happen in a nickle defense. But you have made up your mind already.

By the way, I would swap our top three receivers with the Cards top three in a heartbeat. Fitzgerald, Boldin and Johnson are younger and better than our WR's.

 

[wileedog]

Perhaps you would be kind enough to point out what assumptions I've made here.

I hope we didn't miss the boarding call for the Queen Mary and instead, rushed to get passage booked on the Titanic instead.

The insinuation here is that Warner will have a great season, while Drew will test the laws of physics against an iceberg. Based on a couple of quarters in the first preseason game.

Now either may be true, but its ridiculously early to say so. And furtheremore, I said the Cowboys did not play the nickel to match up. Arizona ran a lot of 3 WR sets on 1st and 2nd down, and we stayed in our base defense.

Did you see the play with Ware covering Fitzgerald 20 yards down the field? Do you think stuff like that is EVER going to happen in a regular season game? Bill came in a with a gameplan based on evaluation and stuck to it no matter what the Cards did.

Look, I didn't like Bledsoe's performance either. But Kurt Warner has been a bad NFL QB for a couple of years now for many of the same reasons Bledsoe has.

 

[Mike 1967]

The insinuation here is that Warner will have a great season, while Drew will test the laws of physics against an iceberg. Based on a couple of quarters in the first preseason game.

Now either may be true, but its ridiculously early to say so. And furtheremore, I said the Cowboys did not play the nickel to match up. Arizona ran a lot of 3 WR sets on 1st and 2nd down, and we stayed in our base defense.

Did you see the play with Ware covering Fitzgerald 20 yards down the field? Do you think stuff like that is EVER going to happen in a regular season game? Bill came in a with a gameplan based on evaluation and stuck to it no matter what the Cards did.

Look, I didn't like Bledsoe's performance either. But Kurt Warner has been a bad NFL QB for a couple of years now for many of the same reasons Bledsoe has.

Yes...I did see that play were Ware covered the slot receiver.

In fact..the announcers made a point to point that out. They also pointed out the fact that on the following play we had a CB covering the slot rec.

The receptions that were being made were being made against the CB's...with the exception of that one "lucky" reception made by Fitzgerald against our FS Davis.

 

[Mike 1967]

Just download Calico's vids. You can see the formations and such. I know that I saw Ware or the other outside LB repeatedly playing in coverage against WR's.

That normally doesn't happen in a nickle defense. But you have made up your mind already.

By the way, I would swap our top three receivers with the Cards top three in a heartbeat. Fitzgerald, Boldin and Johnson are younger and better than our WR's.

Definitely agree on the WO's ! Fitzgerald is a stud. But I thought Newman did a pretty good job covering him. Especially on that offensive pass interference play.

And for the record, I would change my opinion of given strong evidence to the contrary. I establish my opinion off of what I see. And at the end of the day I am more interested in finding the truth than I am about defending my opinion.

 

[Fletch]

(13) Why did the Cardinals (as a team) appear to be playing twice as hard and twice as fast as our team ?

This may come across as a joke, and it is to a degree, but I also thing there is a bit of truth to it.


Zona played harder because there are more cowboys fans in Arizona then Cardinal fans.

This team was hyped up to beat the boys just like the Texans were.

Even the Zona announcers were acting like they were playing in the superbowl.

And also considered They game planned to win the game, it seems dallas only game planned for evaluation per what I have heard and read.

I love how some in here overreact to the FIRST FRIGGIN' PRESEASON GAME! First off, Cowboys never play well in Arizona, especially in preseason. Remember two years ago? 1st preseason game we got shutout 13-0.

Please people, try to not put too much stock into this loss. We did not game plan. Everything was vanilla. I won't start worrying until September 11th.

 

[Doomsday101]

I love how some in here overreact to the FIRST FRIGGIN' PRESEASON GAME! First off, Cowboys never play well in Arizona, especially in preseason. Remember two years ago? 1st preseason game we got shutout 13-0.

Please people, try to not put too much stock into this loss. We did not game plan. Everything was vanilla. I won't start worrying until September 11th.

I agree but after being here for a while I guess the over-reaction should be expected. It will be the same if we look great next week some will go overboard on a good showing. If I'm going to react to a pre-season game it will be the game against the Texans which will be considered a dress rehearsal for the team

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Don't mind me, I have to rant.

You can't win the Super Bowl in August.

Clearly you have never visited a Commanders board...heck they can win the superbowl in April. :

On a serious note, nice post.

 

[Mike 1967]

I love how some in here overreact to the FIRST FRIGGIN' PRESEASON GAME! First off, Cowboys never play well in Arizona, especially in preseason. Remember two years ago? 1st preseason game we got shutout 13-0.

Please people, try to not put too much stock into this loss. We did not game plan. Everything was vanilla. I won't start worrying until September 11th.

For the record...I am putting no stock in the loss. this is not a win/loss thing.

I am putting stock in the way that certain units perform.

It is always funny how any negative reaction is considered "knee jerk reaction".

I have hear that comment the last 3-4 years.

 

[DLCassidy]

Point is clearly being missed here.

In question, is not what Bledsoe is. I think everybody knows that he's a QB who needs a goodly amount of help to be succesful. I also think that everybody is aware of the fact that it's only one preseason game.

What's in question is, what is to be gained if our OL is bad this year? What does signing him bring to the table?

As for Warner, well, he played with a very bad offense last year in NY. I watched him and the decision to go with Manning was not unilaterally accepted by many people. Warner did not play all that badly last year. In fact, under the circumstances, I thought he did pretty well. Warner didn't get pulled because of sacks/INTs. Warner got pulled because they had Manning.

And my point was if the OL is bad Bledsoe is not the guy you want back there period. Bledsoe's signing only makes sense with a good OL. Having said that I'd be hard pressed to think of QB's that won SB's with subpar lines. It's just that DB needs protection more than most QB's.

As for the Giants, they had a 5-2 start and then lost their next 2 games in which Warner had like 10 sacks and 5 fumbles. Coughlin isn't stupid and he doesn't like losing but he concluded if he was going to lose, and he was going to with Warner, he might as well get on with the Manning era.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The insinuation here is that Warner will have a great season, while Drew will test the laws of physics against an iceberg. Based on a couple of quarters in the first preseason game.

Now either may be true, but its ridiculously early to say so. And furtheremore, I said the Cowboys did not play the nickel to match up. Arizona ran a lot of 3 WR sets on 1st and 2nd down, and we stayed in our base defense.

Did you see the play with Ware covering Fitzgerald 20 yards down the field? Do you think stuff like that is EVER going to happen in a regular season game? Bill came in a with a gameplan based on evaluation and stuck to it no matter what the Cards did.

Look, I didn't like Bledsoe's performance either. But Kurt Warner has been a bad NFL QB for a couple of years now for many of the same reasons Bledsoe has.

So, am I insinuating or am I making an assumption? The two are worlds apart you know. The fact is that I made no assmptions at all. I voiced an opinion and stated a fear.

Are you insinuating that Warner will test the laws of physics and Drew will have a great season? I'm going to take a guess here and say that you are not trying to say that. It would be stupid to do so and even dumber for me to pretend that this is was your assumption. See the difference?

I clearly stated the fact that I was worried Bledsoe may fail and Warner may succeed as a fear rather then some sort of point of fact.

Here is a point of fact. Warner was the best QB on the field Saturday. A point I confirmed in the original post.

Warner's problems have been injury, not mobility or recongnizing coverages. Warner has never been very mobile but he did manage to put up 2 of the best passing seasons in NFL history, when healthy. His mobility never hurt him then. It was injury that changed Warner's ability to produce. Again, if he is healthy, I would expect him to be able to produce. Bledsoe, well, we will see. I hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I find it producnt to do so.

Bledsoe's issues and Warner's issues are not the same. It is foolish to pretend they are. Lastly, game planning has nothing, whatever, to do with Bledsoe's performance. He missed receivers. Doesn't matter what is being game planned. If your missing then your missing.

 

[DLCassidy]

Warner's problems have been injury, not mobility or recongnizing coverages. Warner has never been very mobile but he did manage to put up 2 of the best passing seasons in NFL history, when healthy. His mobility never hurt him then. It was injury that changed Warner's ability to produce. Again, if he is healthy, I would expect him to be able to produce. Bledsoe, well, we will see. I hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I find it producnt to do so.

Bledsoe's issues and Warner's issues are not the same. It is foolish to pretend they are. Lastly, game planning has nothing, whatever, to do with Bledsoe's performance. He missed receivers. Doesn't matter what is being game planned. If your missing then your missing.

I'm not sure you're right about this. No doubt Warner was a great QB when he was completely healthy, but he's a lot like Bledsoe in that they are both pure pocket passers that can look downright awful if they are not well protected. Both can be sack/fumbling machines without strong help from their supporting casts. Warner won a couple MVP's but he had the top receiver trio in football and Marshall Faulk who was probably the real MVP despite Warner's excellent work. The Cowboys line Saturday played a lot like the Giants did for Warner his last couple games there- and the results were similar.

Gameplanning does matter for Bledsoe's performance. He rarely misses a throw that he sets his feet and steps into. Therein lies the rub. If you're having difficulties with protection matchups you select plays that allow the ball to be thrown quicker OR you max protect. We didn't do that Saturday. Arizona I dare venture will have a top 5 defense this year. Assuming the OL does not make major improvement, when we play teams like them and Philly and Washington we will make sure Bledsoe has either quick release plays called or max protect and throw deep plays. I'm not ready to assume the OL won't make major progress. If they do, a decent running game coupled with play action (another game planning possibility that can make a difference) should allow DB to have enough time to step into his throws.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And my point was if the OL is bad Bledsoe is not the guy you want back there period. Bledsoe's signing only makes sense with a good OL. Having said that I'd be hard pressed to think of QB's that won SB's with subpar lines. It's just that DB needs protection more than most QB's.

As for the Giants, they had a 5-2 start and then lost their next 2 games in which Warner had like 10 sacks and 5 fumbles. Coughlin isn't stupid and he doesn't like losing but he concluded if he was going to lose, and he was going to with Warner, he might as well get on with the Manning era.

I agree but the point is, if your only going to get bad play, why spend all the cap on a QB that is going to produce just that? That's the point that was being made early in the year.

As for the Giants and Warner, well, what your saying above is not correct. Last season, Warner was sacked a total of 39 times in 10 games. In those games, he posted a QB rating of 86.5. In 10 games, he had 8 TOs. 4 INTs and 4 Lost Fumbles. Warner did not play badly, IMO, considering the team he had around him. He got benched because of an injury and never got back in because of the investment in Manning. Not saying I'm against that at all. What I am saying is that Warner did not have a horrible year last year, considering.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm not sure you're right about this. No doubt Warner was a great QB when he was completely healthy, but he's a lot like Bledsoe in that they are both pure pocket passers that can look downright awful if they are not well protected. Both can be sack/fumbling machines without strong help from their supporting casts. Warner won a couple MVP's but he had the top receiver trio in football and Marshall Faulk who was probably the real MVP despite Warner's excellent work. The Cowboys line Saturday played a lot like the Giants did for Warner his last couple games there- and the results were similar.

Gameplanning does matter for Bledsoe's performance. He rarely misses a throw that he sets his feet and steps into. Therein lies the rub. If you're having difficulties with protection matchups you select plays that allow the ball to be thrown quicker OR you max protect. We didn't do that Saturday. Arizona I dare venture will have a top 5 defense this year. Assuming the OL does not make major improvement, when we play teams like them and Philly and Washington we will make sure Bledsoe has either quick release plays called or max protect and throw deep plays. I'm not ready to assume the OL won't make major progress. If they do, a decent running game coupled with play action (another game planning possibility that can make a difference) should allow DB to have enough time to step into his throws.

Warner hurt his hand in 2002. Before that, he had seasons of the following:

1999 16 games 65.1 Comp%, 4353 yards, 41 TDs, 13 Ints, 109.2 QB rating.
2000 11 games 67.7 Comp%, 3429 yards, 21 TDs, 18 Ints, 98.3 QB rating.
2001 16 games 68.7 Comp%, 4830 yards, 36 TDs, 22 Ints, 101.4 QB rating.

IMO, average QBs don't put up consecutive seasons like that. As for game planning, it doesn't matter. We can game plan anything but if Bledsoe has terrible mechanics and is missing receivers, it won't matter. That, IMO, is what happened Saturday. Game plan had nothing to do with it. He didn't have the best OL play, I can agree with this but he had oppotunity to hit open receivers. He missed them. Explain to me how game planning effects that?

 

[wileedog]

Last season, Warner was sacked a total of 39 times in 10 games. In those games, he posted a QB rating of 86.5. In 10 games, he had 8 TOs. 4 INTs and 4 Lost Fumbles.

Bledsoe was sacked only 37 times in 16 games with 3 lost fumbles. And his line was no better than the Giants, he played in a much better division and Warner had Tiki for 10 games.

How can you tell me from those stats that Warner didn't have the same sacks and fumbles problem as Bledsoe? Its looks like he had them far worse.

39 sacks in 10 games is a pace to get nailed 62 times over a season. That's horrific, and no way all the fault of the O-line, and certainly not of a thumb injury.

 

[DLCassidy]

I agree but the point is, if your only going to get bad play, why spend all the cap on a QB that is going to produce just that? That's the point that was being made early in the year.

As for the Giants and Warner, well, what your saying above is not correct. Last season, Warner was sacked a total of 39 times in 10 games. In those games, he posted a QB rating of 86.5. In 10 games, he had 8 TOs. 4 INTs and 4 Lost Fumbles. Warner did not play badly, IMO, considering the team he had around him. He got benched because of an injury and never got back in because of the investment in Manning. Not saying I'm against that at all. What I am saying is that Warner did not have a horrible year last year, considering.

The idea behind bringing in Rivera was to improve the OL play. Parcells recognizes Bledsoe's strengths and weaknesses as well as anyone. As far a cap #, Bledsoe has one of the lowest cap #'s of any starting QB in the league. The fact remains if the OL stinks we're sunk no matter whose under center.

Warner was sacked 13 times in his last two starts with the Giants. You can't win with that no matter whose fault it is. But he wasn't benched because he was hurt he was benched because Coughlin had lost confidence in him. I'm not bashing Warner he has the potential to return to form. But the fact is Bledsoe has had a Pro Bowl season more recently than Warner.

 

[DLCassidy]

Warner hurt his hand in 2002. Before that, he had seasons of the following:

1999 16 games 65.1 Comp%, 4353 yards, 41 TDs, 13 Ints, 109.2 QB rating.
2000 11 games 67.7 Comp%, 3429 yards, 21 TDs, 18 Ints, 98.3 QB rating.
2001 16 games 68.7 Comp%, 4830 yards, 36 TDs, 22 Ints, 101.4 QB rating.

IMO, average QBs don't put up consecutive seasons like that. As for game planning, it doesn't matter. We can game plan anything but if Bledsoe has terrible mechanics and is missing receivers, it won't matter. That, IMO, is what happened Saturday. Game plan had nothing to do with it. He didn't have the best OL play, I can agree with this but he had oppotunity to hit open receivers. He missed them. Explain to me how game planning effects that?

Can we agree Warner had some great years? I'm not sure who you're debating here. I suspect Bledsoe would have done well with those Rams teams also. My point was both guys will not do well if they aren't well protected and neither one can make a play with his legs.

As to Saturday, we're talking about 4 incomplete passes. 4. Even if you want to give full blame to Bledsoe on all 4, which I don't I'm not sure it's cause for alarm yet. Saturday only told me we have a lot of work to do offensively.