Random observations from the game

[Z-Man]

With respect to a pass rush, according to several articles I've read, it appears we didn't do much blitzing. This is probably on purpose as BP doesn't want to show too much, and he probably wants to see if we can play the basics as this was our first time running the 3-4 during a game.

You shouldn't have to only rely on blitzing to get a pass rush. That's absurd!
You should be able to generate pressure with your base defense, end of story.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Bledsoe was sacked only 37 times in 16 games with 3 lost fumbles. And his line was no better than the Giants, he played in a much better division and Warner had Tiki for 10 games.

How can you tell me from those stats that Warner didn't have the same sacks and fumbles problem as Bledsoe? Its looks like he had them far worse.

39 sacks in 10 games is a pace to get nailed 62 times over a season. That's horrific, and no way all the fault of the O-line, and certainly not of a thumb injury.

All well and good but what exactly does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

The point was that he didn't have 10 TOs in 2 games as was suggested. He was also injured and replaced. If the weak point your feably trying to make is that Bledsoe had a better season in Buffalo, that's fine. Buffalo was clearly a superior team to the Giants last year. I mean, there is no question about this at all. The Giants had no starters healthy last year. It's a reach, IMO, to say that Buffalo's line was as good or whatever. Bottom line, I never tried to say that Bledsoe was better last year or whatever. That's all in your head.

What I'm saying is that when Warner is healthy, he's a better QB then Bledsoe. He's also cheaper. That is what I'm trying to say. Has nothing to do with comparisons of last season. How could it?

 

[wileedog]

If the weak point your feably trying to make is that Bledsoe had a better season in Buffalo, that's fine.

That's not the point I'm trying to make at all.

I'm saying that Warner the past few years has demonstrated the same problems that Bledsoe has - slow decision making, taking too many sacks, fumbling the ball.

The numbers you posted couldn't have made my point any better. On pace for 62 sacks is ludicrous, and you can't possibly blame that all on the Giants o-line, nor on a chronic thumb injury.

Warners' problems are not all health related, and I'll be very surprised if he winds up a) standing or b) effective this season. No matter what he did against us this Saturday.

Will he be better than Bledsoe? Yeah, maybe. But I don't see anything in his performances in the past few seasons that would make me say "We should have signed Warner instead."

Quite frankly, the most likely scenario at this point is they both suck once the real games start. It might be a matter of which coach can get the most out of them with what they have left.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The idea behind bringing in Rivera was to improve the OL play. Parcells recognizes Bledsoe's strengths and weaknesses as well as anyone. As far a cap #, Bledsoe has one of the lowest cap #'s of any starting QB in the league. The fact remains if the OL stinks we're sunk no matter whose under center.

Warner was sacked 13 times in his last two starts with the Giants. You can't win with that no matter whose fault it is. But he wasn't benched because he was hurt he was benched because Coughlin had lost confidence in him. I'm not bashing Warner he has the potential to return to form. But the fact is Bledsoe has had a Pro Bowl season more recently than Warner.

I agree with this. I believe that Parcells had a plan. Will it work? We will see. I thought then that the wholes in our OL were much greater then just RG. I believed then that we had an issue at LT. Still do. I thought we had an issue with our Center. I thought he got pushed back into the pocket too much. Still do. I thought we had an issue at RT. Still do. I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that it has nothing to do with Bledsoe vs Warner. It had everything to do with bringing Bledsoe and paying him for what I considered an equivalent to what we already had.

If your asking me about Warner and Bledsoe, I believe Warner would be a better option.

We will have to agree to disagree about why Warner sat. He was injured and subsiquintly benched. He never came back after that. The Giants made a decision. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying that I thought Warner played well under the circumstances.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Can we agree Warner had some great years? I'm not sure who you're debating here. I suspect Bledsoe would have done well with those Rams teams also. My point was both guys will not do well if they aren't well protected and neither one can make a play with his legs.

As to Saturday, we're talking about 4 incomplete passes. 4. Even if you want to give full blame to Bledsoe on all 4, which I don't I'm not sure it's cause for alarm yet. Saturday only told me we have a lot of work to do offensively.

When you said you weren't sure you could say that Warner was a great QB before the injury, I posted those numbers to show you why I considered him as such. Nothing more.

I do not believe Bledsoe would have done the same in that offense. I agree that neither QB is very mobile but there is one huge difference in the two QBs IMO. Warner reads defenses quicker, makes decisions quicker and has a very quick release. Before the injury, Warner would stand in and get rid of the ball before the rush got there. After the injury, he lost his ability to be accurate. He held the ball longer to avoid the TO. This lead to more sacks. If his thumb is again healthy, I think you see him get back to being difficult to sack. This is the reasoning behind my opinion of each player.

One thing we can agree on. Our offense has a lot of work to do.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's not the point I'm trying to make at all.

I'm saying that Warner the past few years has demonstrated the same problems that Bledsoe has - slow decision making, taking too many sacks, fumbling the ball.

The numbers you posted couldn't have made my point any better. On pace for 62 sacks is ludicrous, and you can't possibly blame that all on the Giants o-line, nor on a chronic thumb injury.

Warners' problems are not all health related, and I'll be very surprised if he winds up a) standing or b) effective this season. No matter what he did against us this Saturday.

Will he be better than Bledsoe? Yeah, maybe. But I don't see anything in his performances in the past few seasons that would make me say "We should have signed Warner instead."

Quite frankly, the most likely scenario at this point is they both suck once the real games start. It might be a matter of which coach can get the most out of them with what they have left.

You absolutly can. Take a good look at the Giants OL last year. It was the worst I can ever remember. They were decimated with injury. Take a look at there WRs. They were all hurt last year. Same with the TE. The only healthy offensive player they had last year was Tiki and he went down as well.

I can agree that the two QBs were not very good the past few years but to me, the reasons why are key. I guess I just believe that if Warner is really over the thumb, that allows him to do a lot of things he couldn't do before. All of a sudden, you have accuracy and a quick release again. It can make all the differnce in the world.

Regardless, we will see what happens. The season will tell.

 

[Rack]

(1) It seemed that the Cardinals had 8 men in the box constantly. This had a lot to do with the difficulty that we had running up the middle. They simply clogged all the lanes

We played 8 men in the box too. Roy was consistently up near the LOS.

(2) Bledsoe is S L O W . The guy takes to long to go through his reads. He holds on to the ball too long. He throws off of his backfoot. I am no longer a fan of this guy. He is a downgrade from Testaverde.

I said that the minute we signed him. Testaverde, even at 87 years of age, is still better then Bledsack.

(3) Either Romo or Henson should start over Bledsoe if this game was any indication of skill level.

I agree. Either one would do better then Bledsack.

And if Henson was "Tentative" (according to Parcells) then what was Bledsoe, braindead?

(4) We still may be without a pass rush...but...in all fairness 2/3rds of our starting D Line was not in the game. And The Cardinals do have a decent Left Tackle.

I just didn't like the effort they put forth in the pass rush. They aren't relentless out there. It's like the expect the OL to fall down and roll out of the way for them. You don't see many guys trying to "rip" through the OL, or spin move, or swim move or anything. They just try to run by their guy, and that ain't gettin' it done. Just ask Ebenezer Ekubust.

(9) Crowder better make this team. The guy is a lights out special teams player. That block he made on the last punt was unbelievable. I cannot remember ever seeing someone make that type of block before...he awareness on that play was unreal ! He also made a phenomenal tackle on a would be punt return. This guy could be the difference in a few close games this year.

I like his play making ability on special teams, but he has to show something as a WR.

But it sure would be nice to have someone out there that has a chance to block a kick every once in a while.

(10) Tyson Thompson (Sp?) could possibly be the best RB on the team. This guy was blowing by everyone. If they had kept feeding him the ball in the 4th quarter we would have won this game. This guys ability to get to the outside is phenomenal and would force defenses to make some adjustments.

No, he isn't. He's not even in JuJo's league. He consistently just ran by his lead blocker on those sweeps. He may be able to get away with it vs 3rd stringers, but he'll be stopped for no gain or a loss vs starters. He needs to be patient and set up his blocks.

(11) Is Jacob Rogers a quitter ? I am beginning to question whether or not this guy has the mental toughness to play at this level. RT is a huge issue.

I hated it the second we drafted him and I'm hating it more now. I said this guy would never become anything cuz he won't stay on the field long enough to develop.

(13) Why did the Cardinals (as a team) appear to be playing twice as hard and twice as fast as our team ?

Cuz they wanted it more then our guys did.

 

[Mike 1967]

We played 8 men in the box too. Roy was consistently up near the LOS.






I said that the minute we signed him. Testaverde, even at 87 years of age, is still better then Bledsack.






I agree. Either one would do better then Bledsack.

And if Henson was "Tentative" (according to Parcells) then what was Bledsoe, braindead?






I just didn't like the effort they put forth in the pass rush. They aren't relentless out there. It's like the expect the OL to fall down and roll out of the way for them. You don't see many guys trying to "rip" through the OL, or spin move, or swim move or anything. They just try to run by their guy, and that ain't gettin' it done. Just ask Ebenezer Ekubust.






I like his play making ability on special teams, but he has to show something as a WR.

But it sure would be nice to have someone out there that has a chance to block a kick every once in a while.






No, he isn't. He's not even in JuJo's league. He consistently just ran by his lead blocker on those sweeps. He may be able to get away with it vs 3rd stringers, but he'll be stopped for no gain or a loss vs starters. He needs to be patient and set up his blocks.





I hated it the second we drafted him and I'm hating it more now. I said this guy would never become anything cuz he won't stay on the field long enough to develop.





Cuz they wanted it more then our guys did.

Good post

Welcome to the knee jerk quick evaluator club.

 

[DLCassidy]

When you said you weren't sure you could say that Warner was a great QB before the injury, I posted those numbers to show you why I considered him as such. Nothing more.

My exact quote was: "No doubt Warner was a great QB when he was completely healthy"

I do not believe Bledsoe would have done the same in that offense. I agree that neither QB is very mobile but there is one huge difference in the two QBs IMO. Warner reads defenses quicker, makes decisions quicker and has a very quick release. Before the injury, Warner would stand in and get rid of the ball before the rush got there. After the injury, he lost his ability to be accurate. He held the ball longer to avoid the TO. This lead to more sacks. If his thumb is again healthy, I think you see him get back to being difficult to sack. This is the reasoning behind my opinion of each player.

One thing we can agree on. Our offense has a lot of work to do.

I didn't say Bledsoe would do the same. I said he would have done well. Look at Bledsoe's #'s his first year in Buffalo and he didn't have the weapons Warner had in SL. Warner had several fantastic years with the Rams. I like the guy- but he's not the same player and I truly doubt it's all the thumb. I also followed the Giants situation closely last year and he was not hurt when he was benched. Both Warner and Bledsoe are on their last go arounds as starting QB's. I put zero stock in a pre-season game as to who has what left in the tank.

 

[wileedog]

You absolutly can. Take a good look at the Giants OL last year. It was the worst I can ever remember. They were decimated with injury. Take a look at there WRs. They were all hurt last year. Same with the TE. The only healthy offensive player they had last year was Tiki and he went down as well.

Tiki put up 1500 yards last year.

Granted there is a huge difference between run and pass blocking, but you'd almost have to have 5 deaf, dumb and blind guys playing O-line to give up 62 sacks in a year with a semi competent QB. Tiki putting up that kind of yardage suggests they weren't completely inept.

I can agree that the two QBs were not very good the past few years but to me, the reasons why are key. I guess I just believe that if Warner is really over the thumb, that allows him to do a lot of things he couldn't do before. All of a sudden, you have accuracy and a quick release again. It can make all the differnce in the world.

Regardless, we will see what happens. The season will tell.

Aye, we'll see ABQ, we'll see. But I live in the NY area and watched Warner a lot last year, and I was quite happy we passed on him.

Although I fully acknowledge we may not have gotten anything better....

 

[big dog cowboy]

You shouldn't have to only rely on blitzing to get a pass rush. That's absurd!
You should be able to generate pressure with your base defense, end of story.

That is 100% true. However, that vanilla D we ran out there against Arizona wouldn't scare a high school QB.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

My exact quote was: "No doubt Warner was a great QB when he was completely healthy"


I didn't say Bledsoe would do the same. I said he would have done well. Look at Bledsoe's #'s his first year in Buffalo and he didn't have the weapons Warner had in SL. Warner had several fantastic years with the Rams. I like the guy- but he's not the same player and I truly doubt it's all the thumb. I also followed the Giants situation closely last year and he was not hurt when he was benched. Both Warner and Bledsoe are on their last go arounds as starting QB's. I put zero stock in a pre-season game as to who has what left in the tank.

OK, if that is what you said, then I probably miss read you. Whatever the case, that is why I posted the numbers. Nothing more.

I believe that if Warner is healthy, he will put up good numbers. His numbers last year were not bad. His sack totals were terrible but that was the O-Line much more then it was Warner IMO. We will see.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Tiki put up 1500 yards last year.

Granted there is a huge difference between run and pass blocking, but you'd almost have to have 5 deaf, dumb and blind guys playing O-line to give up 62 sacks in a year with a semi competent QB. Tiki putting up that kind of yardage suggests they weren't completely inept.


Aye, we'll see ABQ, we'll see. But I live in the NY area and watched Warner a lot last year, and I was quite happy we passed on him.

Although I fully acknowledge we may not have gotten anything better....

Tiki played well last year because he was basically the loan man standing, so to speak. Having said that, that offense was ranked 23rd in the league, over all. It was 27th in the league passing. They gave up 52 sacks. Only Chicago gave up more. The line was severly hurt by injury last year and, it was young. I don't think you can hang that all on Warner. I watched Warner play last year as well. I think the guy can still play but hey, this year may tell a lot. We will see.