Random Offensive Line Thoughts

[Risen Star]

I was talking about you primarily. I was just trying to be polite. There have been a number of people who have talked about his problems in pass blocking including scouts, the media and members here. So it's not as if I'm really out on a limb here

He has no competition at C on the team right now although some can play C. That is the only reason he's a lock if he is. If we had a quality C playing when he got here they'd have tried putting him a G or just let him sit and coach him. He's coming off his rookie year with some issues so don't act like the guy is headed for the Pro Bowl already. He struggled as most rookies. You fail to read all the other conversation from me saying I expect him to be the starter. You're just going to take one part of a conversation out of context and run with it. Right?

I noticed you avoided me mentioning you and all the crap you gave me about Free in 2012. Now you're defending the guy when I mention Parnell taking his job. LOL. So were you for him before you were against him and now your thoughts have matured and evolved and you're for him again?

You don't have to be polite. I'm not the usual baby that resides here.

I understand what you're saying about Frederick. I also understand you couldn't be more wrong. You're probably the only person on the planet who feels like the Cowboys have an unsettled C position.

If your ultimate point is a rookie needs to improve on his first year, whoa...slow down, professor. Let me get my notebook.

I have no idea what you're talking about with Free. I didn't say anything about him. I was just busy being right on Free all along while the ham and egg/Go Cowboys! crowd was anointing him as one of the top T's in the league. His abortion of a contract extension was universally applauded here. Not by me. I knew it was bad and said so. I won't let the guys who were wrong, like you, distort my stance on that to make themselves feel better.

Parnell isn't worth the time to talk about. This is what countless hours of scouting youtu....err....film and a stack of personalized spreadsheets has told me.

 

[burmafrd]

That's all I've been saying Fuzzy. He has to pass protect better. It's too bad there isn't someone here who can push him for his job. Nwaneri can at least play C as can Mack if Fred gets injured. I don't expect him to be problematic and I think his pass blocking will improve. They could also bring in a vet C if he has problems. I think he'll be better so I'm not too worried. We are thin at C though.

not sure what you have against Fredbeard. You weren't one of the Costa homers, were you?

 

[Chuck 54]

If coaches thought for a second that Bernie or any other guard was better than Free, they would have made this move with Martin right away. Better to give a rookie all offseason, camp, and preseason at RT. Hard to ask a rookie to prepare as RG and then shift to RT in mid year.

Maybe Martin is future at RT, or maybe he's a stud guard and the future RT is Parnell or Weems or someone else. And let's not write off the possibility of Free playing very well in his second consecutive year at RT and being resigned. We need him to be solid and improve by being left at one position; we don't need pro bowl tackles on both sides.

We already know we can run behind Smth/Leary; maybe now we can run behind Frederick/Martin.

 

[jobberone]

You don't have to be polite. I'm not the usual baby that resides here.

I understand what you're saying about Frederick. I also understand you couldn't be more wrong. You're probably the only person on the planet who feels like the Cowboys have an unsettled C position.

If your ultimate point is a rookie needs to improve on his first year, whoa...slow down, professor. Let me get my notebook.

I have no idea what you're talking about with Free. I didn't say anything about him. I was just busy being right on Free all along while the ham and egg/Go Cowboys! crowd was anointing him as one of the top T's in the league. His abortion of a contract extension was universally applauded here. Not by me. I knew it was bad and said so. I won't let the guys who were wrong, like you, distort my stance on that to make themselves feel better.

Parnell isn't worth the time to talk about. This is what countless hours of scouting youtu....err....film and a stack of personalized spreadsheets has told me.

You keep reading into my posts what you wish and not what I've said.

Let me repeat one last time. Fred has pass blocking problems. And a bit of problem with the bull rush. The former is a concern but no one thinks he can't be coached. The latter is a strength problem and I haven't seen anyone be too concerned about it at all.

IF he continues to have problems with pass blocking then that is more problematic. If everyone else is doing their job then he will weaken the line. No one is running in circles worrying about this but you are dismissing it and the club isn't. I suspect he'll be fine but no one knows that and neither do you. I do suspect you (and I) will be correct and he will be ok but no one knows that yet. Just like no one knows Leary, Mack or Free will start this year. The only player no one is concerned at all about is Smith. Mack, Leary, and Free have significant competition. Fred doesn't. It is more of a concern he will get hurt and someone will have to replace him than it is his probable performance. His lack of competition is just a hole in the OL.

Every year it is assumed so and so will be a pillar of strength until we find out otherwise.

You haven't even looked at Parnell. Your opinion in that regards is just empty.

You have taken the above and magnified your erroneous mind reading and spun it to suit your own needs. And that is not unusual at all for you. I don't see any need to continue this discussion now or in the future.

 

[jobberone]

If coaches thought for a second that Bernie or any other guard was better than Free, they would have made this move with Martin right away. Better to give a rookie all offseason, camp, and preseason at RT. Hard to ask a rookie to prepare as RG and then shift to RT in mid year.

Maybe Martin is future at RT, or maybe he's a stud guard and the future RT is Parnell or Weems or someone else. And let's not write off the possibility of Free playing very well in his second consecutive year at RT and being resigned. We need him to be solid and improve by being left at one position; we don't need pro bowl tackles on both sides.

We already know we can run behind Smth/Leary; maybe now we can run behind Frederick/Martin.

And you may be right. I can't see who is going to start or play significant snaps yet. Too many variables for me.

 

[jobberone]

not sure what you have against Fredbeard. You weren't one of the Costa homers, were you?

I like the player a lot. With the exception of Smith all the rest of the OL have flaws and Fred is one who does. What is so mysterious about discussing players pros and cons? I've criticized part of his game and praised other parts. I also have criticized Leary a lot, Mack some and Free a bit more than Mack. But I like Mack and Free and I think Leary will be ok. The Costa remark will be ignored.

It wasn't long ago you and much of the same crew mouthing off here were screaming at me about saying Mack was incredible at times but just inconsistent and his feet needed work. I got all kinds of insults direct and implied. The same goes with Free x 100. And to a lesser extent Leary who I've defended as well esp his 'condition'. Now all of you are on their bandwagons and some defending the very players they were a short time ago guffawing about.

It appears to me, and I'm not boasting, my opinions on the OL seem to be more on target than a lot of you. Just saying. You can also add Kosier and Gurode to that list. Having said all that none of our opinions mean much of anything since the team does its own evaluations without our input.

And stop calling people names. I don't care if you call me a homer but some take exception to it and you already know this.

 

[starfrombirth]

would you be as certain if I told you Costa was ending his retirement to make a comeback.

Be careful with these statements

If you think Costa is a competition for Fred then I want what you are smokin.

 

[CCBoy]

For a first year player...strength, mobility, and the ability to pick up at the second level. I don't care what is said about development from that point. He'll be top shelf within three seasons.

 

[burmafrd]

I like the player a lot. With the exception of Smith all the rest of the OL have flaws and Fred is one who does. What is so mysterious about discussing players pros and cons? I've criticized part of his game and praised other parts. I also have criticized Leary a lot, Mack some and Free a bit more than Mack. But I like Mack and Free and I think Leary will be ok. The Costa remark will be ignored.

It wasn't long ago you and much of the same crew mouthing off here were screaming at me about saying Mack was incredible at times but just inconsistent and his feet needed work. I got all kinds of insults direct and implied. The same goes with Free x 100. And to a lesser extent Leary who I've defended as well esp his 'condition'. Now all of you are on their bandwagons and some defending the very players they were a short time ago guffawing about.

It appears to me, and I'm not boasting, my opinions on the OL seem to be more on target than a lot of you. Just saying. You can also add Kosier and Gurode to that list. Having said all that none of our opinions mean much of anything since the team does its own evaluations without our input.

And stop calling people names. I don't care if you call me a homer but some take exception to it and you already know this.

calling Bernie incredible destroys what little cred you ever had.

 

[Risen Star]

You keep reading into my posts what you wish and not what I've said.

Let me repeat one last time. Fred has pass blocking problems. And a bit of problem with the bull rush. The former is a concern but no one thinks he can't be coached. The latter is a strength problem and I haven't seen anyone be too concerned about it at all.

IF he continues to have problems with pass blocking then that is more problematic. If everyone else is doing their job then he will weaken the line. No one is running in circles worrying about this but you are dismissing it and the club isn't. I suspect he'll be fine but no one knows that and neither do you. I do suspect you (and I) will be correct and he will be ok but no one knows that yet. Just like no one knows Leary, Mack or Free will start this year. The only player no one is concerned at all about is Smith. Mack, Leary, and Free have significant competition. Fred doesn't. It is more of a concern he will get hurt and someone will have to replace him than it is his probable performance. His lack of competition is just a hole in the OL.

Every year it is assumed so and so will be a pillar of strength until we find out otherwise.

You haven't even looked at Parnell. Your opinion in that regards is just empty.

You have taken the above and magnified your erroneous mind reading and spun it to suit your own needs. And that is not unusual at all for you. I don't see any need to continue this discussion now or in the future.

Yes. The club has addressed this issue you've discovered by inking Frederick's name as the starting C for the next 10 years.

Congrats on being the only person on the planet who feels Travis Frederick is fighting to hold onto his job this year. He doesn't have competition on the roster because he's one of the blue chip young centers in the game. Tyron Smith doesn't have competition either. Neither does Dez Bryant.

If you want real spin, try reading your Free comments to me. You pulled that out of the same left field fence that you found your stance on Frederick.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Question: what makes these offensive line thoughts any more random than your average run-of-the-mill offensive line thoughts?

 

[jobberone]

calling Bernie incredible destroys what little cred you ever had.

This post illustrates exactly what I'm talking about. I said he was incredible at times. Most people would construe that as a play here and there. I even mentioned he was replaceable in the post and/or the thread. If he might not even start do you really think I believe he is an incredible player? Don't bother answering; it's a rhetorical question.

It's getting to the point you can't have a decent discussion around here. My last comment here.

 

[jterrell]

I'm sitting here on a little break at work, and just thinking about our trench buildup on both sides of the ball.

I wanted to share this one random thought, and there's a substantial likelihood I'm 100% wrong:

I think that by the end of the year, our starting line, from left to right, will be Smith, Leary, Frederick, Bernadeau, Martin.

I just think at some point we're going to have to get Free off the field and get Berny back in the rotation. He was better than Doug Free all year last year and was the sole reason the right side of the line was not a sieve. Removing him and inserting Martin just puts a rookie there instead of a proven vet, and I think we'll see some rushers in Tony's face from the right side early this year when Free is exposed.

Now if we run the ball, I think we'll do just fine. The line looks to be the best run-blocking line in football this year.

What are your thoughts on the present and future state of our offensive line?

Odd case where I like but also offer disagreement.

I think Free was really good last year through 6-8 games but definitely wore down and fell off badly the last few.
A similar pattern this year might allow for a progression of Martin, Bern and Leary.

The good news is this team is really pretty well protected for once from injury.
We won't be going from Pro Bowler to George Selvie on the 2014/5 OL.

I think your starting 5 is very possible at some point late in the year; but as you note a lot of variable have to fall in place.

 

[jobberone]

Yes. The club has addressed this issue you've discovered by inking Frederick's name as the starting C for the next 10 years.

Congrats on being the only person on the planet who feels Travis Frederick is fighting to hold onto his job this year. He doesn't have competition on the roster because he's one of the blue chip young centers in the game. Tyron Smith doesn't have competition either. Neither does Dez Bryant.

If you want real spin, try reading your Free comments to me. You pulled that out of the same left field fence that you found your stance on Frederick.

It's pointless to have a meaningful discussion with you much of the time.

 

[jobberone]

Question: what makes these offensive line thoughts any more random than your average run-of-the-mill offensive line thoughts?

LOL. For me this is right down the middle and dead solid perfect. For some it will be over their head.

 

[Nightman]

Nope. They had the date of free agency to decide to release him or it was guaranteed. That's how the Cowboys got he and his agent to lower the salary.

I have not seen that anywhere. I understand the guarantee for 2013, but not for 2014. If you have an article that confirms the 2014 guarantee that would be appreciated.

 

[TheDude]

You keep reading into my posts what you wish and not what I've said.

Let me repeat one last time. Fred has pass blocking problems. And a bit of problem with the bull rush. The former is a concern but no one thinks he can't be coached. The latter is a strength problem and I haven't seen anyone be too concerned about it at all.

IF he continues to have problems with pass blocking then that is more problematic. If everyone else is doing their job then he will weaken the line. No one is running in circles worrying about this but you are dismissing it and the club isn't. I suspect he'll be fine but no one knows that and neither do you. I do suspect you (and I) will be correct and he will be ok but no one knows that yet. Just like no one knows Leary, Mack or Free will start this year. The only player no one is concerned at all about is Smith. Mack, Leary, and Free have significant competition. Fred doesn't. It is more of a concern he will get hurt and someone will have to replace him than it is his probable performance. His lack of competition is just a hole in the OL.

Every year it is assumed so and so will be a pillar of strength until we find out otherwise.

You haven't even looked at Parnell. Your opinion in that regards is just empty.

You have taken the above and magnified your erroneous mind reading and spun it to suit your own needs. And that is not unusual at all for you. I don't see any need to continue this discussion now or in the future.

Yes. The club has addressed this issue you've discovered by inking Frederick's name as the starting C for the next 10 years.

Congrats on being the only person on the planet who feels Travis Frederick is fighting to hold onto his job this year. He doesn't have competition on the roster because he's one of the blue chip young centers in the game. Tyron Smith doesn't have competition either. Neither does Dez Bryant.

If you want real spin, try reading your Free comments to me. You pulled that out of the same left field fence that you found your stance on Frederick.

RisenStar a homer and Jobberone a realist

Thre was a 0.00000845% chance of this happening according to Excel Stat pak



(J/k) Fun read

 

[Nightman]

Nope. They had the date of free agency to decide to release him or it was guaranteed. That's how the Cowboys got he and his agent to lower the salary.

I found a Todd Archer article(after much searching) that confirms the 2014 salary was guaranteed on the 5th day of the League Year. Thanks for clearing that up.

It definitely means Free isn't going anywhere this year. It's TSmith-Leary-Fred-Martin-Free IMO. Bern is the backup C/OG, Weems or Parnell swing OTs and probably the guy from Jax as the last OL.

 

[mmohican29]

You keep reading into my posts what you wish and not what I've said.

Let me repeat one last time. Fred has pass blocking problems. And a bit of problem with the bull rush. The former is a concern but no one thinks he can't be coached. The latter is a strength problem and I haven't seen anyone be too concerned about it at all.

IF he continues to have problems with pass blocking then that is more problematic. If everyone else is doing their job then he will weaken the line. No one is running in circles worrying about this but you are dismissing it and the club isn't. I suspect he'll be fine but no one knows that and neither do you. I do suspect you (and I) will be correct and he will be ok but no one knows that yet. Just like no one knows Leary, Mack or Free will start this year. The only player no one is concerned at all about is Smith. Mack, Leary, and Free have significant competition. Fred doesn't. It is more of a concern he will get hurt and someone will have to replace him than it is his probable performance. His lack of competition is just a hole in the OL.

Every year it is assumed so and so will be a pillar of strength until we find out otherwise.

You haven't even looked at Parnell. Your opinion in that regards is just empty.

You have taken the above and magnified your erroneous mind reading and spun it to suit your own needs. And that is not unusual at all for you. I don't see any need to continue this discussion now or in the future.

J1, while I don't disagree that Fred's rookie season was perfect: In my mind he had substantial trouble with 3/4 NT's who outsized him significantly (ie: he relied on his strength and anchor). He also needs a bit more confidence on pulling plays, he's quick enough but sometimes had trouble identifying target.

In my mind however, Fredbeard's overall performance would rank somewhere in the top 10-12 C's in the NFL as a ROOKIE. Top flight intangibles: intelligence, work-ethic, on-field nastiness tell me his trajectory (barring injury of course) is only up. He was worthy of his selection last year so I don't see any reason for concern about the depth chart's lack of competition at the C position as we have both Mack (who WAS serviceable at C) and Martin who you would think would at LEAST be serviceable in that role.

The team has concerns but O-Line isn't one of them unless Leary or Bern go backwards. It may take a few games, but Zack Martin WILL dominate. I was more concerned with Fred last season than Zack this season. However- to the OP- I don't see Martin ever moving to RT barring in-season injury.

 

[jobberone]

J1, while I don't disagree that Fred's rookie season was perfect: In my mind he had substantial trouble with 3/4 NT's who outsized him significantly (ie: he relied on his strength and anchor). He also needs a bit more confidence on pulling plays, he's quick enough but sometimes had trouble identifying target.

In my mind however, Fredbeard's overall performance would rank somewhere in the top 10-12 C's in the NFL as a ROOKIE. Top flight intangibles: intelligence, work-ethic, on-field nastiness tell me his trajectory (barring injury of course) is only up. He was worthy of his selection last year so I don't see any reason for concern about the depth chart's lack of competition at the C position as we have both Mack (who WAS serviceable at C) and Martin who you would think would at LEAST be serviceable in that role.

The team has concerns but O-Line isn't one of them unless Leary or Bern go backwards. It may take a few games, but Zack Martin WILL dominate. I was more concerned with Fred last season than Zack this season. However- to the OP- I don't see Martin ever moving to RT barring in-season injury.

He did have some trouble with quick strong NTs and DTs. He needs work on getting out of his stance consistently (not a big problem) and his strength needs to increase (it will). I agree he's not real mobile but he's actually better than I thought he'd be. Not a ringing endorsement is it. I agree with you. He'll have to work on his footwork and economy of motion as well as maybe increase his agility. The latter is a tad hard. Martin can get outside and Fred is not bad at it. After that we are marginal IMO.

His pass blocking is his main problem and I suspect they can coach it up. Getting out of his stance and increasing his strength with better footwork will help that a lot. The rest is punch and technique yada. I do not agree he was one of the better centers although I wouldn't argue he was near the middle. His run blocking is already pretty good.

Depth is always a concern. We have Nwaneri, Mack, Martin and Patrick (who will have a problem making the PS...although you never know) who can play C on the team at present. Free has also done some work but I wouldn't buy much of that stock either. Fred will likely be the C game 1 unless he falters. I'm not certain anyone can replace him although I don't know Nwaneri at all. They can always pick up a vet if he has problems or is injured with the latter much more likely than the former. The reason I mentioned depth is he likely will be fine and we don't have anything but question marks behind him.