Random Offensive Line Thoughts

[Alexander]

After reading some of these posts at how precarious the center situation is with Frederick, it really offers the idea this was a bust pick.

 

[CoCo]

After reading some of these posts at how precarious the center situation is with Frederick, it really offers the idea this was a bust pick.

Exaggeration of what is being said. A message board specialty.

 

[Alexander]

Exaggeration of what is being said. A message board specialty.

Not really. If the idea is that a first round choice that started his entire rookie season should have his job open for competition, then yes, you are pretty much labeling the choice as a bust.

If he played like Bobby Carpenter in his rookie year, I would understand the angst.

 

[CoCo]

Not really. If the idea is that a first round choice that started his entire rookie season should have his job open for competition, then yes, you are pretty much labeling the choice as a bust.

If he played like Bobby Carpenter in his rookie year, I would understand the angst.

You know I actually agree that J1 is overstating the point on Frederick. He's a lock to start if healthy.

But "open competition" does not mean anyone is a bust, nor has J1 suggested anything of the sort.

 

[Alexander]

You know I actually agree that J1 is overstating the point on Frederick. He's a lock to start if healthy.

But "open competition" does not mean anyone is a bust, nor has J1 suggested anything of the sort.

In my eyes, if you look at a rookie season like what Frederick had and suggest there should be an open competition, I think that says you do not trust the player.

 

[Risen Star]

In my eyes, if you look at a rookie season like what Frederick had and suggest there should be an open competition, I think that says you do not trust the player.

I also think it means you don't understand what you're watching. It's that wacky.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

After reading some of these posts at how precarious the center situation is with Frederick, it really offers the idea this was a bust pick.

Only if you look at things as static and unchanging. When he came out it was widely noted that he was going to need polish in the pass blocking department and that he was dominant in the run game. As has been said, he did improve but just because we are saying that he still needs to get better, does not merit the binary logic you are using here.

You don't think him not progressing in his pass blocking would be problematic?

 

[Screw The Hall]

As an individual blocker Fredrick has some improving to do.

But any analysis of the season Fredrick had last year that doesn't include the ultra important skills of being in charge of the line calls and getting the other guys lined up correctly is doing him a serious disservice. To be clear the reason the line played more cohesively last year than it has in the better part of a decade is quite frankly all Fredrick.

In season one he performed the mental part of that position better than any center that has worn the star since Stepnoski. That more than any other reason is why Fredrick is going nowhere as the starting center for a long time whether he improves as an individual blocker or not. He is the very definition of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

[CCBoy]

In my eyes, if you look at a rookie season like what Frederick had and suggest there should be an open competition, I think that says you do not trust the player.

My second practice at A&I, a little All American guard was talking to a small group of us seated on the playing field after a spring training practice, was, 'I have to prepare myself each and every year to beat those coming up. If not, one of these days someone is going to sneak up on me and take my job.'

 

[percyhoward]

As an individual blocker Fredrick has some improving to do.

But any analysis of the season Fredrick had last year that doesn't include the ultra important skills of being in charge of the line calls and getting the other guys lined up correctly is doing him a serious disservice. To be clear the reason the line played more cohesively last year than it has in the better part of a decade is quite frankly all Fredrick.

In season one he performed the mental part of that position better than any center that has worn the star since Stepnoski. That more than any other reason is why Fredrick is going nowhere as the starting center for a long time whether he improves as an individual blocker or not. He is the very definition of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Great point about the line calls. It reminded me how bad a then-good line looked whenever Kosier was out.

 

[ccb04]

I'm concerned about Martin. He is changing both positions OT to OG and sides Left to Right. In addition to that, Bern's job was more difficult than normal because of how they had him helping Free. That adds up to a lot to put on Martin as a rookie. I don't know if he is as good in game 1 as Bern was in game 16 of last season. I'm sure by the end of the season he'll be really good, but he could struggle in the first few games. The other issue is that he was only 308 at the combine. There are some NFL OGs that play at that weight, but their technique has to be perfect. Leary and Bern are both 320+.

It may take Martin a little time switching positions & sides. But IMO, despite his shorter arms...this kid could possibly play any of the 5 OL positions (at least in a pinch, as others have mentioned). While his best overall fit is very likely at OG, he could also indeed be the future at RT. He has very good feet, sound technique, very solid punch, is smart and processes things quickly, is a hard worker, and plays with some nastiness. While some OG's guards are in the 320/330-lb. range or better, some of the best OG's in the league weigh in at less than 320-lbs (a few under 310-lbs.) Some examples are guys like:
- Marshall Yanda (6-3/305)
- Evan Mathis (6-5/298)
- Logan Mankins (6-4/308)
- Ben Grubbs (6-3/310)
- Andy Levitre (6-2/303)
- Kevin Zeitler (6-4/315)
- David DeCastro (6-5/316)
- Kyle Long (6-6/313)

Despite Bernadeau & Leary being 320+ lbs., both can sometimes struggle with power...and neither are known for possessing tremendous strength.

 

[jobberone]

As an individual blocker Fredrick has some improving to do.

But any analysis of the season Fredrick had last year that doesn't include the ultra important skills of being in charge of the line calls and getting the other guys lined up correctly is doing him a serious disservice. To be clear the reason the line played more cohesively last year than it has in the better part of a decade is quite frankly all Fredrick.

In season one he performed the mental part of that position better than any center that has worn the star since Stepnoski. That more than any other reason is why Fredrick is going nowhere as the starting center for a long time whether he improves as an individual blocker or not. He is the very definition of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

This is a great point.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

In my eyes, if you look at a rookie season like what Frederick had and suggest there should be an open competition, I think that says you do not trust the player.

Nice generalization but i note that the both of you are lacking in the ability to counter particular points he makes.

Watch the Chiefs game and you can watch him on the ground and beat a few times. Watch the Lions game and you will see more of the same. Watch the GB or Oakland games and you can see him get off balance and on the ground.

It's well known that the interior of the line had serious issues in middle blitz pickup and working line stunts. Frederick was a big part of that.

I am glad you feel good about the way he played. For a rookie he did remarkably. He needs to get better.

 

[jobberone]

It may take Martin a little time switching positions & sides. But IMO, despite his shorter arms...this kid could possibly play any of the 5 OL positions (at least in a pinch, as others have mentioned). While his best overall fit is very likely at OG, he could also indeed be the future at RT. He has very good feet, sound technique, very solid punch, is smart and processes things quickly, is a hard worker, and plays with some nastiness. While some OG's guards are in the 320/330-lb. range or better, some of the best OG's in the league weigh in at less than 320-lbs (a few under 310-lbs.) Some examples are guys like:
- Marshall Yanda (6-3/305)
- Evan Mathis (6-5/298)
- Logan Mankins (6-4/308)
- Ben Grubbs (6-3/310)
- Andy Levitre (6-2/303)
- Kevin Zeitler (6-4/315)
- David DeCastro (6-5/316)
- Kyle Long (6-6/313)

Despite Bernadeau & Leary being 320+ lbs., both can sometimes struggle with power...and neither are known for possessing tremendous strength.

I think you're right. He probably can play them all. He'll be one of the backups at C.

I disagree about Mack not being strong. He's very strong and would be even more so with better feet/technique. His feet get him into trouble in the pass game and hinder him some in the run game mostly skip blocks and getting outside etc. I didn't think Martin would be so mobile. I'm looking forward to seeing Martin. In fact I'm looking forward to seeing improvement from them all.

 

[Biggems]

IMO, you put Martin at LG. He is naturally on the left side. Sliding from T to G shouldn't be that much of a transition. Plus, being on the left side, he will in the middle of our OL foundation of Smith and Fred. I have Leary/Berny at RG, to help Free/Parnell/Weems.

 

[xwalker]

It may take Martin a little time switching positions & sides. But IMO, despite his shorter arms...this kid could possibly play any of the 5 OL positions (at least in a pinch, as others have mentioned). While his best overall fit is very likely at OG, he could also indeed be the future at RT. He has very good feet, sound technique, very solid punch, is smart and processes things quickly, is a hard worker, and plays with some nastiness. While some OG's guards are in the 320/330-lb. range or better, some of the best OG's in the league weigh in at less than 320-lbs (a few under 310-lbs.) Some examples are guys like:
- Marshall Yanda (6-3/305)
- Evan Mathis (6-5/298)
- Logan Mankins (6-4/308)
- Ben Grubbs (6-3/310)
- Andy Levitre (6-2/303)
- Kevin Zeitler (6-4/315)
- David DeCastro (6-5/316)
- Kyle Long (6-6/313)

Despite Bernadeau & Leary being 320+ lbs., both can sometimes struggle with power...and neither are known for possessing tremendous strength.

Some teams never update weights after they are initially posted as rookies. I'm skeptical that Mathis still weighs 298. On the flip side, the Cowboys might inflate some of theirs. They have Bern listed at 333 currently and I'm really doubt that he is over 320.

Leary is probably the strongest player on the OL. He rarely ever gets bull rushed. If he has problems it's against quickness, not power.