Reason to believe in Kyle Kosier (sarcasm)

Fla Cowpoke said:
Ronde Barber is a great zone corner...but he is NOT a cover corner. They are not the same thing. Put Barber on an island and you would have memories of Elvis Patterson. You remember him don't you? "Toast".

HH's argument is that DeAngelo Hall is way better than Newman. I'd question that he is better at all.

When is the last time a receiver had double digit catches against TNew or over a 100 yds?
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Again, just repeating what's been forced down your throat by those buying into this nonsense. Calling Ronde Barber a pure zone corner is like calling Michael Irvin just a posession receiver. Yes, he does do that very well, but he gets put on an island against the best WRs in the game as much as any corner in football. Having a great man corner is an extra bonus in a cover-2. You can one player completely out of the game while having your other DBs zone up the rest of the field.

And I never said Hall was "way" better. I said at this point they are on the same level, they were not at the start of last season.
 
superpunk said:
It will never make sense to you. So I'm not certain why I try.
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Because you are blind to the truth. You guys remind me of of those Mormons who go door to door, trying to get other people to buy into their ridiculous nonsense.
 
And I have the pleasure (groan) of watching just about every Bucs game since I live in Florida. And I usually go to 1-2 of their games a year.

Barber is a phenomenal zone guy. That is why he gets a lot of int's. He is not locked up one on one all the time and can play the field.

You say I am looking at only numbers but I bet there are a lot more balls thrown to Barber's vicinity than there are to Newman's. Throw in the fact that the Bucs have had one of the best pass rushes during Barber's career and you will see that he has had more help than Newman ever has.
 
Fla Cowpoke said:
Ronde Barber has help either from a safety or LB on just about every play, Newman has it rarely.

Why do you think Henry had so many passes thrown against him last year? Because no one threw to Newman's side.
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I think my head is going to explode if I have to read one more exaggeration of this magnitude. Your ignorance in regards to Tampa's scheme and Barber's role, as well as to Newman's greatness, is mind-numbing. I am physically hurt by these posts.
 
Fla Cowpoke said:
And I have the pleasure (groan) of watching just about every Bucs game since I live in Florida. And I usually go to 1-2 of their games a year.
Barber is a phenomenal zone guy. That is why he gets a lot of int's. He is not locked up one on one all the time and can play the field.

You say I am looking at only numbers but I bet there are a lot more balls thrown to Barber's vicinity than there are to Newman's. Throw in the fact that the Bucs have had one of the best pass rushes during Barber's career and you will see that he has had more help than Newman ever has.
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I'm sure you do. After all, it's not like that is awfully conveinent in regards to this discussion or anything. :rolleyes:

I would really hope you are simply making this up to prove a point, otherwise I am giving your football anaylisis too much credit as it is.

Do you know how many times Ronde Barber was throw at against Washington in the playoffs last year? I could jsut tell you, but since you pay so much attention to them, I'll let you try and answer it first.
 
HeavyHitta31 said:
I'm sure you do. After all, it's not like that is awfully conveinent in regards to this discussion or anything. :rolleyes:
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Guess "FLA_Cowpoke" escaped your astute eye...

FLA = Florida.

Just a heads up.
 
HeavyHitta31 said:
No, I feel like I'm fighting against a bunch of homers who have bought into the hype that gets shoveled for this team. I dont care if you, or anyone else, agrees with me, but when people start calling Newman the best corner in football, or Drew Bledsoe a top 5 QB, or Kyle Kosier an upgrade over maybe the greatest lineman to ever live, I feel obligated to say something. This board is turning into Extremeskins, what with the blue and silver glasses that everyone seems to be sporting.
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wow :hammer:.

The Terence Newman homerism is laughable. Newman is improving, but he hasn't played at an elite level consistently like the CBs mentioned in this thread.

If Newman has been better than Hall why hasn't been hyped by the media. Newman has all the intangibles, plus he wears the :starspin . Simply, he hasn't been as good as Hall or any of the elite established CBs like Champ, Barber or McAllister.

HeavyHitta31 said:
Sorry, but I am not buying it. I have higher standards for greatness than most of this board seems to. I refuse to slap the greatest corner in football lable on a guy who has 1 great season. I refuse to lable a backup guard better than the best to ever play the game.
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Don't worry Heavyhitta31. Stephen Peterman will win the LG gig. Have faith in a Nick Saban player. The kid is an athletic 6'4" 300 plus LBs. The kid tore the MCL and ACL in his right knee. Hehad to learn how to walk again.

I think Kosier is high priced utility man, to hedge our bets should either guard spot require immediate help.
HeavyHitta31 said:
And that last paragraph discredited anything you had to say. Barber and <cCalister are two of the best in the game any way you slice it.
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Wow:hammer:
 
HeavyHitta31 said:
I agree, if you arent lying, then the irony of this discussion is mind-numbing.
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If tee-birds fly upside down in the winter, do their appendices become frigid?
 
Charles said:
The Terence Newman homerism is laughable. Newman is improving, but he hasn't played at an elite level consistently like the QBs mentioned in this thread.

If Newman has been better than Hall why hasn't been hyped by the media. Newman has all the intangibles, plus he wears the :starspin . Simply, he hasn't been as good as Hall or any of the elite established CBs like Champ, Barber or McAllister.
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Now this part, I generally agree with. I'll let Terence string together some consecutive seasons like he had last year before I place him alongside the best in the game. I have read people around here calling him "the best" and that is indeed very Extremeskins.
 
Well maybe you can explain it to me HH31. Tell me why it is so hard to find man to man corners but zone corners are a dime a dozen? The Two Deep Zone is a system that helps protect the corners. Our pass defense was better in Newman's first year even with Mario Edwards on the other corner because Edwards could play a little in the zone and we had Williams and Woodson in the secondary. 2004 we changed to more man coverage and Woodson was hurt all year, as well as having no corner on the other side. Last year, we played more man than ever before in the secondary, especially with Newman now having a quality corner on the other side in Henry.

Many teams have went to the Tampa Bay cover two because it is easier to find corners to play the scheme.
 
HeavyHitta31 said:
Sorry, but I am not buying it. I have higher standards for greatness than most of this board seems to. I refuse to slap the greatest corner in football lable on a guy who has 1 great season. I refuse to lable a backup guard better than the best to ever play the game.

Pat Watkins: The next great NFL safety
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Thats funny That you would talk about your higher standards for greatness ...... then say that a 5th round rookie is the next great safety. No wonder everyone rags you
 
Charles said:
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f Newman has been better than Hall why hasn't been hyped by the media. Newman has all the intangibles, plus he wears the :starspin . Simply, he hasn't been as good as Hall or any of the elite established CBs like Champ, Barber or McAllister.
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The same media that hypes the crap out of Larry Allen every year which gets him sent to the Pro Bowl on mediocre performance?

Yeah, there's a good idea. Judge players by their media exposure. In fact every player should be paid based on how many times John Madden says his name....

Newman had a terrific season this year. He's young, has the pedigree, and will only get better as the pass rush improves and if Henry stays healthy.

Yes, declaring him a "great" CB is probably premature. But I hardly put it at the level of Extremeskin homerism to expect that he can start to fulfill that ranking in the coming years.
 
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