Reason to believe in Kyle Kosier (sarcasm)

[superpunk]

Anything outside of the shallow flat isn't their problem.

Pfffft...

 

[Alexander]

If the stats show that you're consistent, then you are consistent.

Even if they are from a small sample of three years?

If that's the case, then Ben Roethliberger is the greatest QB ever and needs to be enshrined right now. After all, his stats show he is consistent.

 

[Charles]

He made the Pro Bowl alternate as a rookie. Despite his supposed "off year" in 2004, Joyner's book proved he still performed like a Top 10 CB. Last year he was unbelievable. He shut down the best WR in the league to the point where he spontaneously combusted. I can't wait for my copy of Joyner's book to come in the mail next month to see how superior he actually was to the field. You can diminish stats all you want, but it holds a hell of a lot more water than "Chris McAllister is good because I've heard it repeated so many times it has to be true."

Newman doesn't need to prove anything. He's already there.

I love it.............The game in which Terence Newman shut down the best WR in the league (causing his combustion), I hope we somehow don't forget to mention that a certain No.94 had set up shop in the Panthers backfield.............

It's interesting how the Falcons front seven gets some mention when we talk about Hall..............but I guess Newman does it on his own (ps Iman - just replyin general not you specifically).

 

[InmanRoshi]

Look at Roy Williams numbers in 2004 when the Cowboys were forced to play Cover 2: 0 sacks, 2 INT's, 0 FF. Those are pedestrian by any definition.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Even if they are from a small sample of three years?

How many years has he played? I don't think we can use anything but the three years he has been in the league.

Big Ben must be considered among the top QB's in the league. His winning record supports that. Hall of Fame? Well, I think he needs a few more years.

I am not ready to put Newman in the Hall of Fame and I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

 

[Vintage]

IMO, people are getting mixed up in differentiating between being a top corner or playing like a top corner.

Silly as it may seem, there is a difference.

IMO, Newman PLAYED like a top corner last season. He had a terrific year. Few, if any CB's had better seasons.

However, he is not a top 2-3 CornerBack yet. A top CB, IMO, is someone who has played at a high level for a couple of years.

Newman played great last season. He didn't play as great in 2004, hence, why we cannot really consider him the best/one of the best CBs in the league right now.

But its certainly not a stretch (or being a homer) to say he played like a top corner last year.

If he does it again, I'd move up him up.....

 

[Charles]

IMO, people are getting mixed up in differentiating between being a top corner or playing like a top corner.

Silly as it may seem, there is a difference.

IMO, Newman PLAYED like a top corner last season. He had a terrific year. Few, if any CB's had better seasons.

However, he is not a top 2-3 CornerBack yet. A top CB, IMO, is someone who has played at a high level for a couple of years.

Newman played great last season. He didn't play as great in 2004, hence, why we cannot really consider him the best/one of the best CBs in the league right now.

But its certainly not a stretch (or being a homer) to say he played like a top corner last year.

If he does it again, I'd move up him up.....

Certainly not.............I agree, but calling him the Best Cover Corner last year is pure homerism.

 

[superpunk]

but I guess Newman does it on his own (ps Iman - just replyin general not you specifically).

Guess you missed the spot where I compared how Newman performed with and without a apss rush.

It's a long thread.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I love it.............The game in which Terence Newman shut down the best WR in the league (causing his combustion), I hope we somehow don't forget to mention that a certain No.94 had set up shop in the Panthers backfield....

And I hope that we somehow dont forget that Delhomme still passed for 260 yards in that game even with Ware camped in his backfield. The Panthers were completing passes ... just not on Newman's man.

I guess the reason why Steve Smith led the NFL in virtually every receiving category last year is because he only faced one team all year that got to Delhomme for 3 sacks

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Hey Charles, how often do you think Barber has been helped by Simeon Rice being in the backfield all the time? Those 8 years of double digit sacks might just be of benefit to a corner, don't you think?

 

[Alexander]

How many years has he played? I don't think we can use anything but the three years he has been in the league.

Big Ben must be considered among the top QB's in the league. His winning record supports that. Hall of Fame? Well, I think he needs a few more years.

I am not ready to put Newman in the Hall of Fame and I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

Would you call Roethlisburger among the top three QBs in the league?

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

And I hope that we somehow dont forget that Delhomme still passed for 260 yards in that game even with 94 camped in his backfield.

The Panthers were completing passes ... just not on Newman's man.

 

[wileedog]

Certainity not.............I agree, but calling him the Best Cover Corner last year is pure homerism.

I think it was Dan Pompei of TSN who ranked out all the CBs at the end of the season.

By his projections T-New graded out as the best pure coverage corner in the league. Other CBs were ranked higher overall because of better run support, etc, but on pure coverage ability Newman was ranked #1.

So when did he mysteriously become a Cowboys Homer?

 

[Alexander]

I think it was Dan Pompei of TSN who ranked out all the CBs at the end of the season.

By his projections T-New graded out as the best pure coverage corner in the league. Other CBs were ranked higher overall because of better run support, etc, but on pure coverage ability Newman was ranked #1.

So when did he mysteriously become a Cowboys Homer?

Conversely, when did his opinion mysteriously become something that is relevant?

Oh wait, when he ranks Newman the best and I agree with it. That's right.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Certainly not.............I agree, but calling him the Best Cover Corner last year is pure homerism.

and, of course, there is the other end of the spectrum which is equally as ridiculous and filled with hyperbole.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Conversely, when did his opinion mysteriously become something that is relevant?

Oh wait, when he ranks Newman the best and I agree with it. That's right.

And when there an an encompassing body of evidence to support it.

Dismiss it all you want, but its more convincing than than annecdotal word of mouth.

 

[wileedog]

Conversely, when did his opinion mysteriously become something that is relevant?

Oh wait, when he ranks Newman the best and I agree with it. That's right.

Charles' point is that only a homer would rank Newman as the best cover corner.

Dan Pompei ranked Newman as the best cover corner.

So either:

A) Charles is wrong, and the opinion has some validity or
B) Pompei is a Cowboys Homer.

My point is not that Newman was the best cover corner because Pompei said so.

My point is that having the opinion that Newman was the best coverage corner in the league last year is shared by someone who has nothing to do with the Cowboys. Thus blind accusations of homerism tend to lose a little of their weight.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Ben has only played two years.

But he has been in the top 5 in passer rating both of those years. He and Manning are the only two that have been there.

That being said, I don't know that he is a top 3. Maybe top 5 - 6. The numbers support it. He has been amazingly clutch. If I had to take a QB to start a franchise with he would be in the mix. Just not my first two or three choices.

 

[Alexander]

Charles' point is that only a homer would rank Newman as the best cover corner.

Dan Pompei ranked Newman as the best cover corner.

So either:

A) Charles is wrong, and the opinion has some validity or
B) Pompei is a Cowboys Homer.

My point is not that Newman was the best cover corner because Pompei said so.

My point is that having the opinion that Newman was the best coverage corner in the league last year is shared by someone who has nothing to do with the Cowboys. Thus blind accusations of homerism tend to lose a little of their weight.

I also think we are talking about two different things.

I think he had one of the top five performances of any corner LAST YEAR.

That is what Pompei is ranking. And you could make a case with it being the best, statistically, if you believe in that gibberish.

But I am referring to those who suggest, right now, Newman is the best in the league. I would wait for consistent production to make that kind of statement. I don't see that as unreasonable in the least.

 

[Charles]

And I hope that we somehow dont forget that Delhomme still passed for 260 yards in that game even with Ware camped in his backfield.

So what are you insinuating. Newman's performance was better that Ware's because even though Ware took over a game defensively (something Newman has never done in his career) Delhomme still passed for 260 yards.

I hope not.........

The Panthers were completing passes ... just not on Newman's man.

..........because if we really get into that 260 yard pasing performance you'll come up with 2 big plays, less than 50% completion percentage and you'd also realize that the Panthers coaching staff had to attack our secondary due to Anthony Henry's absence. They went after the weak links in the secondary.

Why would they throw at Newman going against a lesser WR (Smith ejected) when they could have favorable match-up against lesser CBs.

Don't get me wrong........Newman had a very good year, but have we got the production in line with a CB selected with the 5th overall pick .....not yet.