RECAP: Greg Ellis with BaD Radio on The Ticket...

[ABQCOWBOY]

You're really so infatuated with Greg Ellis you're trying to compare these two situations which aren't even remotely similar? Wow ... that's just shameless.

No, shameless would be saying that Ellis could not hold Tony Tolberts Jock. Oh wait, you said that so obviously, that can't be right. My mistake.

Sorry for that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He missed 2 games. Your right his rookie contract was over but they still consider it holding out which he did and had every right to do so.

In those days, you were the property of the club that drafted you. I don't think it was wrong for him to do it either. He was using the only leverage he had. Just like I don't think what Ellis is doing is wrong. He's using the only leverage that he has IMO.

 

[Doomsday101]

In those days, you were the property of the club that drafted you. I don't think it was wrong for him to do it either. He was using the only leverage he had. Just like I don't think what Ellis is doing is wrong. He's using the only leverage that he has IMO.

Exactly ES was not a free agent because FA was not in place so he was property of the Cowboys and used the hold out to benifet himself and as we both agree rightfully so. I also don't think Ellis going to management with his concerns was wrong, I agree with the organization in not redoing the contract but if you got a bone to pick then do so in the off-season. Once training camp roles around I expect these guys who are under contract to be here and doing their job. Ellis has been doing exactly that.

 

[EndGame]

One thing you can say about him is that it sounds like he's being very, very honest about the situation. He's concerned, but will continue to work as hard as he always has. I can appreciate that. I just think there were times (like the "I don't want to be here" comment) that he could have handled it a little better.

 

[dboyz]

Really? He held out in 93, I believe, and he was most definatly under contract.

I would also point out that Ellis has not held out. He is in camp.

He was most definitely not under contract. The team and him had not agreed on a contract. Jerry was low-balling him frankly. I don't think it is fair to call that holding out.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Exactly ES was not a free agent because FA was not in place so he was property of the Cowboys and used the hold out to benifet himself and as we both agree rightfully so. I also don't think Ellis going to management with his concerns was wrong, I agree with the organization in not redoing the contract but if you got a bone to pick then do so in the off-season. Once training camp roles around I expect these guys who are under contract to be here and doing their job. Ellis has been doing exactly that.

I completely agree Dooms. The one thing I disagree on in how we've handled this thus far, as I mentioned earlier, is the fact that we have not traded him. I am not in favor of releasing him and I completely understand the teams position on this but I do wish we could trade Ellis for a decent pick or player of need. Who knows, that might eventually happen. I would hate to see us just out and out cut him but who knows how this will work out?

 

[Doomsday101]

He was most definitely not under contract. The team and him had not agreed on a contract. Jerry was low-balling him frankly. I don't think it is fair to call that holding out.

That is what they called it prior to FA. Emmitt was not a FA no other team could bid for his services. You are correct his contract was up and like any player he had every right to not come in until this was resloved. it took 2 loses and Charles Haley putting his helmet through the wall but it got done. :laugh1:

 

[InmanRoshi]

No, shameless would be saying that Ellis could not hold Tony Tolberts Jock. Oh wait, you said that so obviously, that can't be right. My mistake.

Sorry for that.

And again ... he has 5 things Greg Ellis hasn't sniffed a double digit sack season, a Pro Bowl appearance and 3 Superbowl ring. When Ellis gets ONE of those five things, then we can talk.

Yes, you are shameless. There are things Greg Ellis could do to bring me back to his side. He was actually moving in that direction before his latest public ***** and whine fest. Meanwhile, there is nothing he could do that would cause you to criticise him. You've even attempted to justify a bush league move like skipping workouts with his teammates. He could quit right in the middle of the game, walk right off the field and you stand up and applaud him and say he's in the right.

 

[dboyz]

This is quite a thread. Frankly I think this is being a bit overanalyzed. Ellis is a worry wart and was concerned about how his role change would affect his career. Were his dire fears a little irrational. Sure, but we all have those moments when something affects us personally. He whined a little bit and skipped his offseason workouts. Do I think that was the right thing to do? No, but it really caused no damage to the team.

Ellis is in no way comparable to TO, and what TO has done.

 

[Doomsday101]

I completely agree Dooms. The one thing I disagree on in how we've handled this thus far, as I mentioned earlier, is the fact that we have not traded him. I am not in favor of releasing him and I completely understand the teams position on this but I do wish we could trade Ellis for a decent pick or player of need. Who knows, that might eventually happen. I would hate to see us just out and out cut him but who knows how this will work out?

Evidently the organization feels his value to the team is more important than the compensation we would get in return. He is under contract until 2009 so if things do not work out with this move Dallas may very well look to trade him after the season.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He was most definitely not under contract. The team and him had not agreed on a contract. Jerry was low-balling him frankly. I don't think it is fair to call that holding out.

I did not call it holding out. That is what was said back in the day. He was not in camp and there was no FA so he was a hold out. I can not take credit for that.

Besides, I don't think it was a matter, so much, of Jerry low balling Emmitt, per say. I think it was more a matter of term of contract. I could definatly be wrong here. It was some time ago but I think the Cowboys didn't want to extend as far out as they did. He had already played 3 seasons average life expectancy for a RB was not great. If memory serves, again a long time ago, Jimmy Johnson drafted Emmitt and said, "We have the RB position locked up for 5 years." That kinda lends a bit of a perspective to what the thinking might have been then.

 

[dboyz]

That is what they called it prior to FA. Emmitt was not a FA no other team could bid for his services. You are correct his contract was up and like any player he had every right to not come in until this was resloved. it took 2 loses and Charles Haley putting his helmet through the wall but it got done. :laugh1:

You are probably right, that it was often called holding out. However, I think there should be a distinction between not having a contract and not wanting to play under your current contract. Calling them both holding out is a little confusing IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And again ... he has 5 things Greg Ellis hasn't sniffed a double digit sack season, a Pro Bowl appearance and 3 Superbowl ring. When Ellis gets ONE of those five things, then we can talk.

Yes, you are shameless. There are things Greg Ellis could do to bring me back to his side. He was actually moving in that direction before his latest public ***** and whine fest. Meanwhile, there is nothing he could do that would cause you to criticise him. You've even attempted to justify a bush league move like skipping workouts with his teammates. He could quit right in the middle of the game, walk right off the field and you stand up and applaud him and say he's in the right.

I doubt he is very concerned with bringing you back to his "Corner". Be that as it may, it doesn't really matter. I watched Tolbert play his whole career in Dallas and before that, at UTEP. Safice to say that I saw him play a great deal and I do not concure with your assesments.

The workouts are not in his contract. He has no obligation to be there. The coaching staff wants him there, justifiably so but he has no obligation to do so. I see this as business, nothing more. Neither side is wrong here IMO. It is simply business. I find it hard to fault the guy because he has technically done nothing wrong. He's talked a little bit but you can't hold that against him. He is withing his right to position himself. Obviously, I don't view this in the same light you do. I like Ellis as a player and I always have. I admit that but just because you don't see him in that same light does not mean my opinion of him is a poor one or that he is wrong.

As for the quiting was walking away thing, well, I've never seen Ellis quit so before you start committing me to things you'ed like to see me do, why don't we just wait for the day that he actually does quit and then see how I react.

Agreed?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You are probably right, that it was often called holding out. However, I think there should be a distinction between not having a contract and not wanting to play under your current contract. Calling them both holding out is a little confusing IMO.

To be honest with you, I don't recall if they had rookie contracts in place back then or not. I do agree that is is confusing and it is not really a fair characterization, apples to apples.

The point I was trying to present with that whole line of thinking is that Emmitt used the leverage he had to deal with his contract issues in the way of a hold out. I see it in much the same light with Ellis. Circumstances were definatly different on the specifics because it was a different time but it still comes down to the same thing. Money.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Evidently the organization feels his value to the team is more important than the compensation we would get in return. He is under contract until 2009 so if things do not work out with this move Dallas may very well look to trade him after the season.

Yeah, your probably correct. I do believe they could have traded him had they wanted to. I guess we will see how it plays out.

 

[5Stars]

Interesting thread...lots of good discussion...

But, I really feel sorry for Ellis...what poor ******* can live on a few million dollars a year...I know I can't...

I have ABSOUTELY no empathy for athletes now days...

Ellis is "worried" about being "on the street"...!

If I had his freaking money, I would BURN mine! Same thing goes for T.O.!

But, "they got to feed their families"....poor *******s...!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I have ABSOUTELY no empathy for athletes now days...

Ellis is "worried" about being "on the street"...!

If I had his freaking money, I would BURN mine! Same thing goes for T.O.!

Can't really argue with any of this.

 

[zrinkill]

Really? He held out in 93, I believe, and he was most definatly under contract.

I would also point out that Ellis has not held out. He is in camp.

He had NO, let me repeat ....... NO contract ....

Emmitt would not have held out while he was under contract.

I did not say that Ellis held out ..... I only said Emmitt did not.

 

[5Stars]

He had NO, let me repeat ....... NO contract ....

Emmitt would not have held out while he was under contract.

I did not say that Ellis held out ..... I only said Emmitt did not.

Then, how come Emmitt did not try and go to another team? How come the Boyz lost two games before JJ came to his senses?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He had NO, let me repeat ....... NO contract ....

Emmitt would not have held out while he was under contract.

I did not say that Ellis held out ..... I only said Emmitt did not.

Whatever. All I'm saying is that this is how it was characterized at the time.

Let me say this again, the commen thread I hoped to point out here is that, like Emmitt, he used what he had to leverage the situation. Ellis is doing the same in my opinion.

Besides, as has been mention several times, Ellis has not held out. A none issue to me.