RECAP: Mickey's Ranch Report on Dunham and Miller

[theebs]

Yep. That's the real shame. All of us can discuss this thing until we are blue in the face... neither side is likely to "win." I know I won't gloat if Owens is released. I'll be too worried about what happens at wideout.

have no fear. There is enough here. And more would be added whether it is a rookie, a mid level free agent or the development of stanbach..although I wouldnt hold my breath on stanbach.

The patriots won three super bowls without a number 1 wr, as many refer to that as. I think as I have said many times, the number 1 wr thing is a theory and not a reality.

The ravens had no problems moving the ball last year or the titans or eagles etc....The seahawks and bears made the superbowl with less on offense than we have.

and think about the three teams the pats beat in the superbowl....They all had the proverbial "#1 WR" they beat the rams trio of wr, the panthers and smith and muhammed and the eagles and ...well you know who.

I guarantee if this team loses next year, it wont be because of a lack of talent in pass receiving ability. there will be an early rough patch I believe from the adjustment.

But I do believe strongly that we have a quarterback who can get more than enough out of what he has. IF you take those things that are weighing on him so heavily and turn it into a one for all environment and the results will change.

This team needs to improve on special teams and needs to be more consistent on defense. We are going to have some serious personell turnover on defense and that could be this teams issue come training camp.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Nothing to gloat about. He's staying and why should we gloat about something that had no chance of going differently. Just because the media and message board posters create an issue, doesn't make it real.

You're right: The media and the message board stuff don't make it real, 5. But it's real enough. I wouldn't have said that a few weeks ago. But I'm nearly certain now. Maybe Owens won't get cut, but there is serious, serious discussion. At this point, I think he's gone. Like I said, regardless of my opinion of what ought to be done, I wouldn't have thought it likely at all Jones would sever ties. But a woman doesn't have to slap me twice for me to know to take my hand off her knee.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

have no fear. There is enough here. And more would be added whether it is a rookie, a mid level free agent or the development of stanbach..although I wouldnt hold my breath on stanbach.

The patriots won three super bowls without a number 1 wr, as many refer to that as. I think as I have said many times, the number 1 wr thing is a theory and not a reality.

The ravens had no problems moving the ball last year or the titans or eagles etc....The seahawks and bears made the superbowl with less on offense than we have.

and think about the three teams the pats beat in the superbowl....They all had the proverbial "#1 WR" they beat the rams trio of wr, the panthers and smith and muhammed and the eagles and ...well you know who.

I guarantee if this team loses next year, it wont be because of a lack of talent in pass receiving ability. there will be an early rough patch I believe from the adjustment.

But I do believe strongly that we have a quarterback who can get more than enough out of what he has. IF you take those things that are weighing on him so heavily and turn it into a one for all environment and the results will change.

This team needs to improve on special teams and needs to be more consistent on defense. We are going to have some serious personell turnover on defense and that could be this teams issue come training camp.

Theebs, I agree with all that, for the most part, but I always hate to lose a talented player, for whatever reason. And I understand why a lot of folks here are so fervently in Owens' corner. I disagree with them, but I think I understand their position.

 

[theebs]

Yea, but even with him you missed on one important point: cap relief.

Ferguson was scheduled to make, I believe, 6 million dollars from his base salary, and that, more than anything else, was the reason for the trade. No way the Cowboys were going to spend 6 million dollars on a part time NG.

Now, I'm not going to tell you what I think that cap relief was used for * cough *cough ( T.O.'s extension ) * cough * cough, but it still made sense at the time.

Understood, I dont believe it was anywhere near that number.

Ferguson was traded because the staff here was tricked into believing that Tank Johnson could play nose tackle and be as effective as ferguson.

Obviously that is not the case. throw in the fact that tank became like the mouthpiece for this defense and I dont think that was appreciated by most guys and you have seriously hampered yourself, again for no reason.

I wonder how those last couple of running plays would have gone had ferguson been manning the nose? maybe they would have been the same, maybe not. He was a leader and a guy ware, canty, spears, bowen looked up to.

 

[InmanRoshi]

A lot of handwringing that the running game can't carry us, Roy Williams can't be a #1 WR, the offense can't move the ball without TO, blah, blah, blah.

At the end of the day, no matter what happens, he's still 36 years old and the Cowboys are going to have to learn to play without him in the very, very near future. Whether you like it or not, part of the reason the Cowboys traded for Roy Williams was to be a #1 WR in the very, very near future to replace TO. There's no sense in putting off the inevitable. If the Cowboys roster is so deeply flawed that their only hopes at Superbowl success are carried on the back of a 36 year old WR, then they need to go ahead and start the rebuilding process around the players in place who are in their 20's. (Romo, Ware, Witten, Ratliff, MB3, Roy E). If the other 52 players on the Cowboys roster are as flawed as TO's supporters claim, this team isn't competing for a Superbowl next year anyway with or without TO. The Cowboys have proven to be a a 9-7 non-playoff team with TO, and keeping him another year is just spinning and circles and putting off the inevitable. TO hasn't put a team on his back and carried them to a Superbowl title yet in his career, I don't know why he would start at 36. Why wait another year or two to move on while Romo and the rest of the players get two years older.

 

[Randy White]

I hope we turn that 3 into a player that can get on the field as much as scandrick. Scandrick really is talented.

and Tashard Choice.

But you have to look at the flip side of it too, we now have a linebacker issue and fasano and bennett are just a wash. There stats will always be similar I think and fasano to me was a better special teams player and he was a quiet locker room guy.

I don't agree. Bennett not only has alot more physical talent, but he contributed more in one year than Fasano did in two, on offense. As far as special teams goes, Bennett also proved he can play them. He had a couple of tackles on special teams and some key blocks as well.

There's no question Bennett was an upgrade at that spot. Now the only thing I will admit is that it's sort of like a high wire act with Bennett because of his maturity level. That's something we didn't have to worry with Fasano.


I'm not worried about the LB position. Ayodele was nothing special, so he was not a big loss. As a matter of fact, he was overpaid for the contributions he made. We've been able to find LBs before, so it's not like if it's the O-line were we can't develop just about anybody.

 

[pgreptom]

I also love the use of statistics. Take a look at Casey Hampton's statistics, they were very comparable to Ferguson's.

I guess we could simply say he "didn't produce anything on the field" for Pittsburgh too.

I must say, I hated when we let Ferguson go. I always thought the guy had a couple of years left. I can only imagine how much better our run-defense would have been last year with him at NT.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I must say, I hated when we let Ferguson go. I always thought the guy had a couple of years left. I can only imagine how much better our run-defense would have been last year with him at NT.

at the very least one of the defensive leaders would have him been him instead of whiny, worthless Tank Johnson

 

[theebs]

Theebs, I agree with all that, for the most part, but I always hate to lose a talented player, for whatever reason. And I understand why a lot of folks here are so fervently in Owens' corner. I disagree with them, but I think I understand their position.

its just a fear.

You have to go forward.

Talented guys get cut every year.

Here in Dallas the organization and the fans suffer from, as pat summerall said there players never getting older and never losing a step.

There is a time where you have to make calculated risks. This is one of them, we have a number of guys who are talented but should not be back. Ellis, owens, burnett, williams.

and some other guys who are not as talented but should be back because they do things that we dont put enough emphasis on. Carlos polk, Keith Davis and pat watkins.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

A lot of handwringing that the running game can't carry us, Roy Williams can't be a #1 WR, the offense can't move the ball without TO, blah, blah, blah.

If the Cowboys roster is so deeply flawed that their only hopes at success are carried on the back of a 36 year old WR, they need to go ahead and start the rebuilding process anyway. The Cowboys have proven to be a a 9-7 team with TO, and keeping him another year just delays the inevitable. At the end of the day, no matter what happens, he's still 36 years old and the Cowboys are going to have to learn to play without him and Roy Williams will have to learn how to be a #1 WR in the very near future. There's no sense in putting off the inevitable.

Very well written. All of this angst might be better spent on what the future holds for all those under 30 Cowboys...

 

[superpunk]

I honestly love the talent on this team on offense, with or without TO. I think last year we kept running the offense like T.O. is a #1 WR, and he's not anymore. He can't run all the routes, Mickey was right he can really only run the drag well unless he gets a free release. He's about a 40 yard per game receiver otherwise. I think without him we would see a much more functional offense, one that isn't trying to fit round pegs in square holes.

The smoke continues to grow larger.

Is there an actual fire?

 

[theebs]

and Tashard Choice.



I don't agree. Bennett not only has alot more physical talent, but he contributed more in one year than Fasano did in two, on offense. As far as special teams goes, Bennett also proved he can play them. He had a couple of tackles on special teams and some key blocks as well.

There's no question Bennett was an upgrade at that spot. Now the only thing I will admit is that it's sort of like a high wire act with Bennett because of his maturity level. That's something we didn't have to worry with Fasano.


I'm not worried about the LB position. Ayodele was nothing special, so he was not a big loss. As a matter of fact, he was overpaid for the contributions he made. We've been able to find LBs before, so it's not like if it's the O-line were we can't develop just about anybody.

fair enough. all valid points. I do think fasano and bennett will end up being players with similar numbers when all is said and done, and there is no baggage with fasano. Having said that I dont have a problem with bennett, I think he will grow up.

I just fear his mindset in the locker room. That was never a worry with fasano.

 

[Randy White]

Theebs:

It seems I was a little off on Ferguson's salary. It wasn't 6 mills, it was 4 mills

Mickey: You are exactly right, except that I'd doubt the Cowboys use that sixth-round pick on a nose tackle. Do you recall the Cowboys used an $8 million signing bonus to ink Jay Ratliff long term? He's your Ferguson. And remember all you guys just clamoring for Tank Johnson last year at this time? Well, he's your backup with a potential to be re-signed if he plays more consistently than last year. How many nose tackles can a team have? The Cowboys didn't trade Ferguson because they need a sixth-round pick as much as they did to save his $4 million base salary and shave roughly $2.4 million off their 2008 salary cap. Even Ferguson knew what was coming. And I never said they traded him because he's old. The point is he's older and more expensive than the guy you just invested in long term.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=77119505-F930-F864-4D942658EF3E85F0

 

[theebs]

I honestly love the talent on this team on offense, with or without TO. I think last year we kept running the offense like T.O. is a #1 WR, and he's not anymore. He can't run all the routes, Mickey was right he can really only run the drag well unless he gets a free release. He's about a 40 yard per game receiver otherwise. I think without him we would see a much more functional offense, one that isn't trying to fit round pegs in square holes.

The smoke continues to grow larger.

Is there an actual fire?

well the house is burning down..

 

[Arch Stanton]

Do you copy and paste this into every TO thread? Seems I've read it somewhere before...........



:laugh2:

Post #4000.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

well the house is burning down..

well we don't need no water like a theebs

burn...theebs...burn

 

[Hostile]

A lot of handwringing that the running game can't carry us, Roy Williams can't be a #1 WR, the offense can't move the ball without TO, blah, blah, blah.

At the end of the day, no matter what happens, he's still 36 years old and the Cowboys are going to have to learn to play without TO in the very, very near future. Whether you like it or not, part of the reason the Cowboys traded for Roy Williams was to be a #1 WR in the very, very near future. There's no sense in putting off the inevitable. If the Cowboys roster is so deeply flawed that their only hopes at success are carried on the back of a 36 year old WR, they need to go ahead and start the rebuilding process. The Cowboys have proven to be a a 9-7 team with TO, and keeping him another year just spinning and circles and putting off the inevitable. If the other 52 players on the Cowboys roster are as flawed as TO's supporters claim, this team isn't competing for a Superbowl next year anyway with or without TO. TO hasn't carried a team on his back to a Superbowl title yet in his career, I don't know why he would do it at 36.

There was a farmer, had a dog, and Bingo was his name-o.

 

[Randy White]

There was a farmer, had a dog, and Bingo was his name-o.

B-i-n -T - O ?

 

[theebs]

Theebs:

It seems I was a little off on Ferguson's salary. It wasn't 6 mills, it was 4 mills

yeah I thought the number was a 2 million dollar savings.

and I have no problem with ratliff being the starter. I love ratliff.

anyway, I just think its a flaw somewhere in the organization that they were tricked into thinking johnson could provide what ferguson did. He clearly couldnt.

Ferguson shared snaps in miami. He would have shared them happily here. He loved living in Dallas. He really got along well with the guys here. He was the kind of leader this team was looking for this year in there locker room. Instead we got tank, we didnt really lose to washington.

We need more fergusons in the future and less johnsons.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

B-a-n -T - O ?

fixed