Red Sox sign Crawford... WOW

[Rogah]

The Red Sox have been trying to "buy" competitive teams for many years. The darts and jabs they throw at the Yankees are pretty hollow.

IIRC, the Red Sox beat the Yankees in 2004 en route to a World Championship and then won another in 2007. So maybe those darts aren't quit as "hollow" as you may think.

 

[joseephuss]

IIRC, the Red Sox beat the Yankees in 2004 en route to a World Championship and then won another in 2007. So maybe those darts aren't quit as "hollow" as you may think.

The "hollow" is not about winning, but about the money being spent on salaries. The Red Sox have no room to say that the Yankees just out spend everyone. The Red Sox spend just as heavily and have done so for quite some time.

 

[Rogah]

The "hollow" is not about winning, but about the money being spent on salaries. The Red Sox have no room to say that the Yankees just out spend everyone. The Red Sox spend just as heavily and have done so for quite some time.

OK, I misunderstood. My bad. Boston's payroll isn't quite up there as high as NY's, but they are certainly one of the haves in a league full of have-nots.

Which all leads me to my oft-repeated comment that I am so glad the NFL has the system they do.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The "hollow" is not about winning, but about the money being spent on salaries. The Red Sox have no room to say that the Yankees just out spend everyone. The Red Sox spend just as heavily and have done so for quite some time.

Your interpretation of my comment was dead on.

 

[raichledog]

The "hollow" is not about winning, but about the money being spent on salaries. The Red Sox have no room to say that the Yankees just out spend everyone. The Red Sox spend just as heavily and have done so for quite some time.

The Red Sox spend heavily, no one could possibly argue that, but to suggest they "spend just as heavily and have done so for quite some time" is inaccurate. They spend almost $60 million less than the Yankees did last year, that's a lot more than the total payrolls of many teams.

On days that Sabathia pitches the Yankee INFIELD costs $99.5 million... not including their catcher. (A-Rod $27.5, Captain Jeets $17, Tex $22.5, Cano $10, and CC a cool $22.5).

There is no doubt that the balance of power in the AL East has shifted to Bean Town.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The Red Sox spend heavily, no one could possibly argue that, but to suggest they "spend just as heavily and have done so for quite some time" is inaccurate. They spend almost $60 million less than the Yankees did last year, that's a lot more than the total payrolls of many teams.

On days that Sabathia pitches the Yankee INFIELD costs $99.5 million... not including their catcher. (A-Rod $27.5, Captain Jeets $17, Tex $22.5, Cano $10, and CC a cool $22.5).

There is no doubt that the balance of power in the AL East has shifted to Bean Town.

If games were being played tomorrow, then what Boston has done would matter a lot more than how rosters will look come opening day.

To assume the Yankees aren't going to do anything else this offseason is ludicrous.

 

[raichledog]

If games were being played tomorrow, then what Boston has done would matter a lot more than how rosters will look come opening day.

To assume the Yankees aren't going to do anything else this offseason is ludicrous.

Ludicrous is a strong word. Tell me please, what EXACTLY could the Yankees do that would "answer" what the Red Sox have done this offseason? What free agents could they pick up that would be anywhere near the quality of Adrian Gonzalez or Carl Crawford?

Cliff Lee is SPECIAL, and if they sign him they certainly close that gap but even with him they are very short on starting pitching. They have no room on the infield and they have a full outfield as well so I'd like to know what's so ludicrous in my suggesting that the balance of power has shifted. I'm echoing the same sentiments that experts like Buster Olney and Peter Gammons have made in the last 24 hours.

The Yanks are a hell of a team, I would never dispute that, but what they have done over the last several offseasons is to have backed themselves into a corner. They are a very old team that has very long-term contracts in vital positions. They have very little wiggle room right now and that's why they are going to overpay to get Lee... and yes, they will overpay. He is almost 33 and they are going to give him a 7-year contract. How many pitchers are highly effective into their late 30's? Crawford and Gonzales - though 7 year contracts - are for position players who are 28 and 29 respectively... big HUGE difference.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ludicrous is a strong word. Tell me please, what EXACTLY could the Yankees do that would "answer" what the Red Sox have done this offseason? What free agents could they pick up that would be anywhere near the quality of Adrian Gonzalez or Carl Crawford?

Cliff Lee is SPECIAL, and if they sign him they certainly close that gap but even with him they are very short on starting pitching. They have no room on the infield and they have a full outfield as well so I'd like to know what's so ludicrous in my suggesting that the balance of power has shifted. I'm echoing the same sentiments that experts like Buster Olney and Peter Gammons have made in the last 24 hours.

The Yanks are a hell of a team, I would never dispute that, but what they have done over the last several offseasons is to have backed themselves into a corner. They are a very old team that has very long-term contracts in vital positions. They have very little wiggle room right now and that's why they are going to overpay to get Lee... and yes, they will overpay. He is almost 33 and they are going to give him a 7-year contract. How many pitchers are highly effective into their late 30's? Crawford and Gonzales - though 7 year contracts - are for position players who are 28 and 29 respectively... big HUGE difference.

So it's impossible for the Yankees to improve their team at all between now and the start of the season.

OK.

 

[raichledog]

So it's impossible for the Yankees to improve their team at all between now and the start of the season.

OK.

Did I say that? Didn't I just give an example of how they could improve (signing Cliff Lee)?

I asked you for your opinion, not a smart *** smiley. If you don't have any ideas, just don't respond.

 

[joseephuss]

Doesn't Boston have to get by Tampa as well?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Did I say that? Didn't I just give an example of how they could improve (signing Cliff Lee)?

I asked you for your opinion, not a smart *** smiley. If you don't have any ideas, just don't respond.

The Cliff Lee acquisition would be pretty huge.

Many would say it would give the Yankees the best pitching staff in baseball... At least in the AL.

And the Yankee offense outscored Boston's last year. And that's with a big down year from many of the Yankee front liners.

 

[tko112204]

Did I say that? Didn't I just give an example of how they could improve (signing Cliff Lee)?

I asked you for your opinion, not a smart *** smiley. If you don't have any ideas, just don't respond.

Getting Lee, letting Pettite retire, and then trading Gardner and Montero to the Royals for Greinke would make their rotation:

Sabathia
Greinke
Lee
Burnett
Hughes

That would be pretty nasty.

 

[tko112204]

Doesn't Boston have to get by Tampa as well?

Tampa is a 75 win team next year, I believe.

No Crawford, no Pena (sub .200 BA aside), no Soriano, no Benoit, another year of regression from Upton.

Their rotation will be good, but they struggled at times to score runs last year, and their lineup got significantly worse.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Getting Lee, letting Pettite retire, and then trading Gardner and Montero to the Royals for Greinke would make their rotation:

Sabathia
Greinke
Lee
Burnett
Hughes

That would be pretty nasty.

There have been stories that have suggested that Greinke couldn't take the pressure of New York.

 

[tko112204]

There have been stories that have suggested that Greinke couldn't take the pressure of New York.

I think it's irresponsible of the media to speculate on what may or may not have contributed to his disorder, whether where he plays has any effect on it, or even whether that had anything to do with his poor performance at the beginning of his career.

Social Anxiety Disorder is largely misunderstood and I think its unfair to that kid to act like we know anything about it.

 

[raichledog]

The Cliff Lee acquisition would be pretty huge.

Many would say it would give the Yankees the best pitching staff in baseball... At least in the AL.

And the Yankee offense outscored Boston's last year. And that's with a big down year from many of the Yankee front liners.

I agree, it would be huge but the best staff in baseball? I'd take the Red Sox rotation over them any day of the week, even with Lee. IF, and it's a big IF Pettite comes back they would have 3.5 legitimate starters. Burnett is a fraud and a mess, Hughes was absolutely lit up in the 2nd half last year and exposed as a 2 pitch pitcher. Lee is a beast but Lester is absolutely his equal. Sabathia has been a horse but anyone who watched him last year knows he was not the same guy as he has been. At this point there are a lot of executives who would take Buchholz over him (especially at the respective cost and ages). Lackey and Beckett both had down years but can be realistically expected to return to their career norms which makes both legitimate #1 or #2 pitchers in any lineup.

Oh, and regarding your comment, "And the Yankee offense outscored Boston's last year. And that's with a big down year from many of the Yankee front liners." Wow just wow. The only ones who had "big down years" are A-Rod and Jeets. A-Rod can not be expected to EVER be the force he was because of age and his hip which will probably never be the same. Tex started a little slowly but was his usual beast self.

Boston on the other hand had more games missed than ANY TEAM IN BASEBALL and they still had the 2nd best offense in MLB!!! They got only 18 games from Ellsbury who hit .307 in 2009 with 70 steals. They only got 1/2 of the year from Pedroia and 2/3 of the season from Youkilis... both with fluke injuries by the way. They lost 2/3 of the season from Cameron, Scutaro was injured the whole year, and their catchers both missed over a month. All of that and they were still in it until the last month of the season. Getting healthy and adding Gonzalez and Crawford to the fold makes this the deepest lineup in baseball.

 

[raichledog]

Getting Lee, letting Pettite retire, and then trading Gardner and Montero to the Royals for Greinke would make their rotation:

Sabathia
Greinke
Lee
Burnett
Hughes

That would be pretty nasty.

It would take a lot more than Gardner and Montero to get Greinke! The Royals have been steadfast in saying that it would need to be a 4-1 MINIMUM to pry Greinke away, with 2 of those being ace-level pitching prospects. Think what the Red Sox gave up for Gonzalez plus their next best pitching prospect as well as a jumping off point for Greinke.

 

[raichledog]

From Jason Stark's "winners and losers" column tonight:

Winners

1. Boston Red Sox

They didn't just have a great week by this offseason's standards. They had one of the great winter meetings weeks ever. The two best offensive players available this winter were Adrian Gonzalez and Crawford. The Red Sox found a way to add both of them -- and they pushed the Yankees' buttons so adeptly, they just about forced their pals from the Bronx to go far beyond what they ever intended in their quest to sign Cliff Lee.
Crawford's gapper-centric offensive repertoire and Gonzalez's inside-out stroke are both perfect fits for Fenway. They give the Red Sox five hitters who have had at least one season of at least 62 extra-base hits (or better) within the past three years. And both these men are premier defensive players, which never hurts.
Then again, they'd better be that good, because if this team can now finish off an extension for Gonzalez, it ain't going to be cheap. In fact, it'll cost more than a quarter-billion dollars for these two guys -- and it almost certainly would make the Red Sox just the second team in history to give out two nine-figure contracts of seven or more years in the same offseason. (The other: the 2009 Yankees, with CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira.)
So clearly, these were two acquisitions that again raise issues about baseball's never-ending money disparities. But if you had any questions who the centerpieces of the Red Sox's next generation were going to be, uh, questions answered.


AND...


Losers

3. New York Yankees

Whooh. Tough week. The Yankees got bashed by an angry Derek Jeter. They got outmaneuvered by a Red Sox team that got much better and more dangerous. They saw Crawford head for Boston before they had a chance to make a serious run at him. They heard no encouraging news about the return of Andy Pettitte. And by the end of the week, they felt so pressured to sign Lee, they found themselves doing something they'd sworn they would never do -- throw a seven-year offer at him.
Maybe, in the long run, this week will turn out to be just another blip on the Yankees' $200 million radar screen. Nevertheless, this isn't how they would have choreographed just about anything that unfolded.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

When does the season start?

A lot of chest-thumping in December.

 

[tomson75]

Lmao @ Yank fans cleverly placing two sets of values on "buying" championships.

I'm a Red Sox fan....but I'm also one of the biggest advocates of salary control in MLB. I know it won't happen in my lifetime...but one can hope. I'd be a hypocrite to say this doesn't bother me....it does, but I've been a Red Sox fan for too long to simply change teams because they've adopted the Yankees' spending habits (despite that being a predominant reason I started hating the yanks in the first place).

What are teams supposed to do...just watch the Yankees outspend every year and keep their roster salaries the same? Teams that aim to be competitive, especially those in the AL East, are forced to pay.

It's a tough pill to swallow...watching my team use the Yankees strategy against them, but I don't think they've been left any choice at this point.

...they've beaten the Yanks with far less for quite some time now (2010 excluded), we'll see if we can resume that trend with a similarly expensive payroll.