MichaelWinicki;3738762 said:There have been stories that have suggested that Greinke couldn't take the pressure of New York.
nyc;3739342 said:Greinke pretty much said he wouldn't go to NY from what I've heard.
raichledog;3738704 said:Ludicrous is a strong word. Tell me please, what EXACTLY could the Yankees do that would "answer" what the Red Sox have done this offseason? What free agents could they pick up that would be anywhere near the quality of Adrian Gonzalez or Carl Crawford?
Cliff Lee is SPECIAL, and if they sign him they certainly close that gap but even with him they are very short on starting pitching. They have no room on the infield and they have a full outfield as well so I'd like to know what's so ludicrous in my suggesting that the balance of power has shifted. I'm echoing the same sentiments that experts like Buster Olney and Peter Gammons have made in the last 24 hours.
The Yanks are a hell of a team, I would never dispute that, but what they have done over the last several offseasons is to have backed themselves into a corner. They are a very old team that has very long-term contracts in vital positions. They have very little wiggle room right now and that's why they are going to overpay to get Lee... and yes, they will overpay. He is almost 33 and they are going to give him a 7-year contract. How many pitchers are highly effective into their late 30's? Crawford and Gonzales - though 7 year contracts - are for position players who are 28 and 29 respectively... big HUGE difference.
tomson75;3739184 said:...they've beaten the Yanks with far less for quite some time now (2010 excluded), we'll see if we can resume that trend with a similarly expensive payroll.
MichaelWinicki;3739111 said:When does the season start?
A lot of chest-thumping in December.
ABQCOWBOY;3739492 said:Boston:
Pedroia .288, 12 HR, 41 RBIs
Crawford .307, 19 HR, 90 RBIs
Youkilis .307, 19 HR, 62 RBIs
Gonzalez .298, 31 HR, 101 RBIs
Ortiz .270, 32 HR, 102 RBIs
Scutaro .275, 11 HR, 56 RBIs
Drew .255, HR 22, RBI 68
Saltalamacchia Only played 14 games in 2010 but CA of .248, 3 HR, 12 RBIs
Ellsbury .291, 20 HRs, 130 RBIs.
.
basstapp;3739259 said:The redsox lost Martinez and Beltre - they pretty much just replaced the offensive production. Defensively they have gotten a little better, but still are a mess at the catcher position.
ajk23az;3739784 said:You didn't just put Ellsbury down for 130 RBIs did you? :laugh2: Please tell me that was a typo.
raichledog;3739774 said:Avoidance of issues.
raichledog;3738931 said:It would take a lot more than Gardner and Montero to get Greinke! The Royals have been steadfast in saying that it would need to be a 4-1 MINIMUM to pry Greinke away, with 2 of those being ace-level pitching prospects. Think what the Red Sox gave up for Gonzalez plus their next best pitching prospect as well as a jumping off point for Greinke.
ABQCOWBOY;3739492 said:If the Yankees manage to get Lee, then I think what you will see them do is to aquire another Bat in the lineup and middle relief. The Yankees have every bit, and possibly more pop in their lineup when they are healthy then Boston does, even with these aquisitions. Where the Yankees need to improve, IMO, is another long reliever, and depending on what happesn with Pettite, perhaps another starter in addition to Lee.
If you look at the projected lineups, I don't know that Boston has a better hitting lineup.
Boston:
Pedroia .288, 12 HR, 41 RBIs
Crawford .307, 19 HR, 90 RBIs
Youkilis .307, 19 HR, 62 RBIs
Gonzalez .298, 31 HR, 101 RBIs
Ortiz .270, 32 HR, 102 RBIs
Scutaro .275, 11 HR, 56 RBIs
Drew .255, HR 22, RBI 68
Saltalamacchia Only played 14 games in 2010 but CA of .248, 3 HR, 12 RBIs
Ellsbury .291, 20 HRs, 130 RBIs.
Yankees:
Jeter .270 10 HR, 67 RBIs
Granderson .247, 24 HR, 67 RBIs
Teixeira .256, 33 HR, 108 RBIs
ARod .270, 30 HR, 125 RBIs
Cano .319, 29 HR, 109 RBIs
Swisher .288, 29 HR, 89 RBIs
Posada .248, 18 HR, 57 RBIs
Montero Minor League Stats 2010 - .289, 21 HR, 75 RBIs.
Gardner .277, 5 HR, 47 RBIs
I mean, on paper, I just don't see Boston's lineup as better and the chances of ARod, Teixeira and Jeter all having down years again are not good. I do expect the Yankees to add another bat.
tko112204;3739837 said:Put Banuelos in that trade and it gets done.
raichledog;3739842 said:Doubt it. The Royals have said already that they will not take less than a 4-1 and 2 of the 4 have to be #1 or #2 quality pitching prospects.
tko112204;3739888 said:Notice how he hasn't gotten traded yet...
Montero and Gardner are MLB ready contributors and Banuelos is an elite pitching prospect. That's about as good as an offer can get.
Everyone from Olney to Heyman are saying that the price for Greinke HAS to come down, because this is the perfect market to shop him, and 3 years from now, when the Royals are ready to compete (presumably), no one knows what Greinke will be pitching like.
BTW, I don't for a second think that the Yankees are going to trade for Greinke. You asked for a situation in which the Yankees could answer what Boston had done this offseason.
That is one such scenario.
raichledog;3739841 said:I would disagree with your assessment. Looking at lineups:
Crawford vs. Gardner --> I like Brett Gardner a lot but this is a no-brainer
Ellsbury vs. Granderson --> In his prime Granderson was a hell of a player, but he looked lost last year, especially versus lefties, and it continued a trend that started in Detroit. At this point in their respective careers, Ellsbury is hands down the winner here (if he is healthy, and it's said he has no lingering effects of the rib injuries)
Swisher vs. Drew --> Offensively Swisher is the winner - though his stats are inflated by that short porch in right at the New Yankee Stadium - but defensively JD Drew is still one of the top right fielders in all of baseball. Give me Swisher but it's close.
A-Rod versus Youk --> inarguably, at his peak, A-Rod was the superior player but today, Youkilis is superior and the stats including OBP, OPS, and Slugging support this... Plus, Youk is a superior defensive player TODAY.
Captain Jeets versus Scutaro --> Despite the worst season of his career, give me Jeter in a land slide here. Scutaro is a fine player but not in the same league as Jeter. Now, if Lowrie beats out Scutaro, this is a lot closer. You look at what Lowrie did in the last 1/2 of the season last year and it was EXTREMELY impressive.
Cano versus Pedroia --> Cano is an absolute beast! I freaking love the guy and he probably has the advantage offensively (the guy can flat out rake) but it's not a landslide offensively. Pedroia is a superior defender and has some of that Jeter mestique. Keep in mind Pedroia is a former rookie of the year and AL MVP so I'd call this a wash, you just can't go wrong either way.
Tex versus AGon --> Mentor versus prodigy here. AGon couldn't get on the field in Texas because of Tex so he was traded to the Padres. In SanDiego, in what is statistically the worst offensive park in all of baseball, Gonzalez was a beast and if you look at his home-road splits, you see a guy who hit .315 on the road and AVERAGED 20 HR's a year. In PETCO he averaged just under .270 and 11 HR's a year, but he had absolutely no protection in that lineup. In Boston he will have the best hitting 3rd baseman in baseball in Youkilis hitting behind him and Big Papi behind him. Think he'll get pitched around? Jed Hoyer, GM for the Padres said, "Gonzalez will be a BEAST in Fenway." and a guy Yankee fans know quite will, Don Mattingly said, "He is tailor made for that park (Fenway) and will be unbelievable there." Oh, and he's a 2x Gold Glove winner in the NL. Tex is a stud and the "one that got away" in Boston. I love the guy and have NOTHING bad to say about him. He hits for average (despite last years struggles) and big power, especially with the short porch in right in Yankee Stadium. He's stellar defensively and a great teammate by all accounts. I say pick one or the other, either way you win.
Papi versus Posada --> Both on the downside of their great careers but if you take April out of the equation last year, Papi was still the best DH in the game. Posada was a great hitting catcher and will be more than adequate at DH, but he is not Papi's equal at the plate.
Catcher... too many questions for both teams at this point, call it a draw.
Starting Pitchers --> Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, and DiceK versus Lee (lets assume here) Sabathia, Pettite (who knows if he's coming back) Hughes, and Burnett... both STELLAR at the top with many question marks in the middle and end. Lester and Buchholz are probably the equal of Lee and Sabathia with perhaps a slight nod to NY because of experience (but youth swings that dramatically in the other direction). Hughes and Pettite versus Beckett and Lackey --> Give me the Sox here for experience and stuff... plus no one is sure Pettite is even coming back. Burnett verus Dice... feh, neither excites me but as 5th starters, call it a wash.
Bulpen --> Obviously Rivera is the GOAT. No arguments there but Papelbon is not exactly chopped liver. He is a top-5 closer despite some struggles last year. Bard is better than anyone on the Yankee roster as an 8th inning set up guy. Overall, because of the greatness that is Rivera, I'd give the nod to the Yankees here but it is very close.
So all in all, you have Boston with 4 decisive wins, the Yankees with 3 VERY NARROW wins, and 5 pushes. Defensively however, it's absolutely advantage Boston.
raichledog;3739917 said:At least you give rationale to your response. I understand what you are saying but still don't think that package would make the Royals give up a 27 year old cy young award winner with an affordable salary for 2 more years.
Montero is a very good prospect but he is a guy who many believe will not be a major league quality catcher, but instead will have to be moved to first base because of his shortcomings defensively. His hitting projects as plus plus as a catcher but not as a first baseman.
Gardner is a good but hardly great outfielder. He hits for decent average, steals some bases, and plays solid defense. BUT he is hardly a headliner.
Banuelos is potentially very good but IMO the Royals would need another top tier prospect to move Greinke. There are other teams out there with more appealing prospects that the Royals would be more likely to desire.
BTW, I think trading for Greinke would be a much better idea than signing Lee. I love what Lee brings to the table but the fact of the matter is that he is 32 and would be 38 at the end of his contract. I think Lee has 2 or maybe 3 years left as a legitimate ace. After that he will be dramatically overpaid by either the Rangers or Yankees. JMHO
tko112204;3739999 said:Montero will probably never play catcher in the majors. He will however always hit. That much has been made clear by his minor league career.
The Royals have a stocked farm system, Hosmer and Moustakas are very good, but neither of them are the pure power hitter that Montero is. DH is a premium position in the AL and Montero figures to be one of the best for years to come. I feel like you are selling him short because he is a below average catcher. If he stays with the Yankees, or goes almost anywhere else, he will never catch.
He's gonna hit though.
Oh, and ABQ, Jeter is not "one the best defensive SS in the AL", in fact, he is probably the poorest.
ABQCOWBOY;3740009 said:Based on what?
He has a lifetime .976 fielding percentage. In 2009, he posted a .986 fielding percentage and a .989 fielding percentage in 2010. I mean, he's not the best. I'd say Tejada is the best in the AL but Jeter is not the poorest. The argument I assume you will make is range. That's fine but you have to be able to field the ball and make the play regardless of anything else. Jeter understands the game as well as any player I've ever seen. He's always in position and he is almost flawless in his fielding. He is far from one of the poorest.
That's just crazy.