Redsk*ns ask refs how to protect RGIII

[SkinsHokieFan]

When did RG3 ever throw for over 300 yards a game? In fact, how many times did he not break 200 that in this game, he was sailing passes he normally makes?

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=321122006

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

Is that Troy Aikman?

"When we saw him running, we saw that this guy's not 100 percent," Wright said. "We made sure right then that we were going to start keying on their running back (Alfred Morris) and TRY TO MAKE HIM (GRIFFITH) RUN."

So they did this by switching up to man? When exactly did they see this?

On first-and-goal on Washington's second touchdown drive, Griffin rolled right and seemed to pull up in pain as he threw an incompletion. Two plays later, after he threw a 4-yard touchdown pass to tight end Logan Paulsen, Griffin walked slowly to the sideline, practically dragging his right leg.

By the second quarter, it was apparent he had lost confidence in his plant leg. Most of his throws were high. Late in the first half, ahead 14-10, he tried to throw long, but hung a pass intended for Pierre Garcon and Seahawks safety Earl Thomas intercepted it.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

So let's get back to actual analysis of football. You claimed that they switched to man when they saw RG3 got hurt, because they went zone feeling threatened by RG3's ability to run. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? They keyed in on Morris on the very first drive yet Morris got 8 yards on a third and two. How did that impact RGs running? On the next drive, RG3 threw 40 yards downfield, meaning they gave RG3 time to throw. How is that forcing RG3 time to run?

So when exactly did they realize this?

At the same moment everyone else did.

"When we saw him running, we saw that this guy's not 100 percent," Wright said. "We made sure right then that we were going to start keying on their running back (Alfred Morris) and try to make him (Griffin) run."

On first-and-goal on Washington's second touchdown drive, Griffin rolled right and seemed to pull up in pain as he threw an incompletion. Two plays later, after he threw a 4-yard touchdown pass to tight end Logan Paulsen, Griffin walked slowly to the sideline, practically dragging his right leg.

 

[khiladi]

That's not answering the question and it's nothing but a subjective claim by the author..


So your saying they switched to man after two horrendous drives by the Commanders? They didn't decided to stay in zone, after these plays clearly didn't end in success? I mean your all over your place with an argument. You said they started off zone because they were afraid of RG3 running. When they realized he was injured, they went to man. Yet, the quote you gave says they wanted RG3 to run, because they saw him hobbling. I thought they do tht by playing zone, not man, per your very words...

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

That's not answering the question and it's nothing but a subjective claim by the author..


So your saying they switched to man after two horrendous drives by the Commanders? They didn't decided to stay in zone, after these plays clearly didn't end in success? I mean your all over your place with an argument. You said they started off zone because they were afraid of RG3 running. When they realized he was injured, they went to man. Yet, the quote you gave says they wanted RG3 to run, because they saw him hobbling. I thought they do tht by playing zone, not man, per your very words...

Exactly. I am not sure how you do not understand the logic.

Of course Seattle wanted a one legged RG3 to run, he was no longer effective. They didn't need to key on him, they could key on Morris and Griffin could no longer accurately throw the ball.

I am not sure how you are struggling to follow. You seem to actually grasp the concept that Seattle no longer needed to worry about the Griffin as a running threat after he was injured

 

[zrinkill]

This is getting ridiculous.

 

[khiladi]

And how is apparent (writer's drama) that Griffith lost confidence in his leg, when he sailed a pass downfield 40 yards? According to Sherman, he said you could see him hurt the WHOLE GAME, not just the second quarter.

"Throughout the whole game you could tell how hurt he was," Sherman said. "But he has a lot of heart, and that's my guy and I'll talk him up until the sun comes home. You've got to respect the guy.

"His knee's a lot worse than it seems, but he's still out there battling for his guys. That kind of heart is something you respect — out of this world."

Look, I got know problems admitting RG3 had issues with his knee, but let's no act like it happened suddenly and Seattle's defense had nothing to do with shutting the Commanders down. For somebody to claim it had solely to do with RG3 tweaking his knee, based upon some subjective statements, had no grounding in reality whatsoever. Seattle made adjustments, controlled the TOP from then onwards. If they didn't make mistakes in the 3rd, it would have been even a bigger butt-whooping.

 

[khiladi]

Exactly. I am not sure how you do not understand the logic.

Of course Seattle wanted a one legged RG3 to run, he was no longer effective. They didn't need to key on him, they could key on Morris and Griffin could no longer accurately throw the ball.

I am not sure how you are struggling to follow. You seem to actually grasp the concept that Seattle no longer needed to worry about the Griffin as a running threat after he was injured

What does key'ing on Morris as opposed to RG3 have anything to do with switching from zone to man?

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

What does key'ing on Morris as opposed to RG3 have anything to do with switching from zone to man?

Plenty.

As I indicated earlier, Seahawks DB's no longer needed to keep their eyes in the backfield.

A normal Griffin is a run threat, in particular if your DB's are playing man to man down the field and have their backs turned.

If you are "letting Griffin run" and "keying on Morris" you have no issues playing man to man, as opposed to the soft zone that Griffin exploited early on before getting injured.

 

[khiladi]

Plenty.

As I indicated earlier, Seahawks DB's no longer needed to keep their eyes in the backfield.

A normal Griffin is a run threat, in particular if your DB's are playing man to man down the field and have their backs turned.

If you are "letting Griffin run" and "keying on Morris" you have no issues playing man to man, as opposed to the soft zone that Griffin exploited early on before getting injured.

That has nothing to do with the situation. Wright is an Outside LB, talking about key'ing in on a RB as opposed to the running of RG3. He isn't talking about the pass and is simply saying the dual threat of running was no longer there. We aren't talking about DBs who are playing the pass. Further, his statement has nothing to do with the claim that they thought RG3 couldn't throw the ball after he hurt his knee.

So again, what does this have to do with going from zone to man?

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

That has nothing to do with the situation. Wright is an Outside LB, talking about key'ing in on a RB as opposed to the running of RG3. He isn't talking about the pass. We aren't talking about DBs who are playing the pass.

Further, his statement has nothing to do with the claim that they thought RG3 couldn't throw the ball after he hurt his knee.

So again, what does this have to do with going from zone to man?

Again, plenty. I really have no idea how you don't understand.

1) Watch the actual film of the game, besides what you seem to incorrectly re-call, in particular the All 22 (which i did). The switch is obvious after the 2nd Commanders offensive TD

2) By playing man to man, you risk having a QB scramble and run down field for chunks of yardage. This clearly was no longer an issue for the Seahawks D, and they could tee off on Morris

3) Griffin, being unable to plant properly, was inaccurate throughout the rest of the game. Aikman refers to this several times throughout the broadcast. If you wish for me to transcribe the broadcast, I'll be happy to have a transcript to you by the end of the week

Look, I understand you want to think that Seattle found a magic formula for stopping the Commanders offense, because apparently the Cowboys are going to run a similar defense this year. That simply wasn't the case.

 

[khiladi]

Again, I'm asking for evidence where is your proof that Seattle adjusted it's zone to an coverage based upon RG3 tweaking his knee. I've already said Seattle settled and adjusted. There is absolutely nothing from what you have given that provides any basis for it:

1. Wright is an OLB, who says that RG3 being hurt allowed them to key on Morris, meaning he was referring to the dual running attack. That has nothing to do with the DBs.

2. Sherman said RG3 was hurt the whole game and they could see it. While you have Aikman, I have Sherman.

3. You yourself admit that Seattle made a change from zone to man, the man being what they normally are good at, meaning they were playing out of their comfort zone until they switched to man.

4. Seattle started controlling the clock offensively. The second drive of the Commanders, Seattle gave them field position at the 46.

 

[khiladi]

BTW, I'm watching it right now and the first play of RG3 after the drive he tweaked his knee, at 33:48 minutes in, he fakes the hand off, drops back cleanly from the point of hand off at least 3 yards, looks left to the WR but doesn't throw, looks right looking deep, pulls back to throw, brings it back cause he was covered and tries throwing again but is stripped. I anybody claims he was hobbling at that time and the suddenly bothered him they are being absurd.



Right after that, Akman talks about the Commanders testing the Seattle CB, Brendan Breener, who was OUT A MONTH, who was susceptible to double-moves and him being RUSTY, which the Commanders capitalized on earlier.

On the play which was a 3rd and two at 36:20 minutes the coverage was tight on the WRs where RG3 is moving nicely to the left going for the first. He has to throw across his body after his WRs were covered in a very difficult throw and there were no signs of a tweaked knee.

The dramatization of RG3 tweaking his knee and the Commanders suddenly dropping in performance is more than I originally thought. Seattle just clamped down.

 

[khiladi]

And if you look at his throw on the drive after that at 45:50, RG3 has a totally clean pcket, drops back 5 yards, looks left the whole time, with the CB clearly on Garcon and Earl Thomas running cleanly from across the field, which resulted in an INT. In fact, Aikman says that Earl Thomas read that the whole way and RG3 held it too long and didn't hold Thomas in the middle with his eyes and said it was easy read, meaning it was a mistake on RG3s throw.

Nowhere during this stretch does Aikman anywhere say this was that RG3 looks hobbled. the only thing he mentions during this time frame when they panned to the doctor was about Shanahan potentially not throwing away the franchise based upon this game. It was a side comment, but nothing to do with, "Oh, RG3 looks hobbled on this throw or that throw and he doesn't look right..." In fact, he praises the Seattle defense for clamping down.

 

[Trent]

so what they want is to throw some flags on him?? 2 hands below the waist....? ;-)

 

[Califan007]

When did RG3 ever throw for over 300 yards a game? In fact, how many times did he not break 200 that in this game, he was sailing passes he normally makes?

Are you the same guy who was saying this about RG3 never throwing over 300 yards in the Fan Forum? lol...I can't imagine there actually being someone else here making this claim.

 

[justbob]

Keep it on thread and civil .. If you are here to troll ----Leave now.

 

[bedlamvr]

BTW, I'm watching it right now and the first play of RG3 after the drive he tweaked his knee, at 33:48 minutes in, he fakes the hand off, drops back cleanly from the point of hand off at least 3 yards, looks left to the WR but doesn't throw, looks right looking deep, pulls back to throw, brings it back cause he was covered and tries throwing again but is stripped. I anybody claims he was hobbling at that time and the suddenly bothered him they are being absurd.



Right after that, Akman talks about the Commanders testing the Seattle CB, Brendan Breener, who was OUT A MONTH, who was susceptible to double-moves and him being RUSTY, which the Commanders capitalized on earlier.

On the play which was a 3rd and two at 36:20 minutes the coverage was tight on the WRs where RG3 is moving nicely to the left going for the first. He has to throw across his body after his WRs were covered in a very difficult throw and there were no signs of a tweaked knee.

The dramatization of RG3 tweaking his knee and the Commanders suddenly dropping in performance is more than I originally thought. Seattle just clamped down.

The pain simply does not come and go - he might be able to move around but he was effected throughout the game and that was obvious to anyone who watched him over that or any of last three games he played in, but his competive drive kept him going until his body could take no more . Just because Aikman did not mention his knee on that play doesn't mean Troy was not thinking it was effecting him, he had already mentioned it several times in the commentary .

Lets not forget the neither the play in the Seattle game where he tweaked his knee or the play he could not get up from involved any contact at all so that gives you an idea of just how bad a shape he was in .

That said the Seattle defense was the reason they were in the playoffs and they were on a role getting real hot later in the season so yeah the defense did make adjustments to limit the skins, but equally you have to wonder would a healthy RGIII and kyle and mike not come up with something to keep things rolling .. We have not even taken into account the negative vibe that enshrouds the entire team when they can see their leader is struggling and a little bit of the confidence and the swagger went ...

But back to the OP ... I know the Commanders are a rival but this 'RGIII is going to suffer a life changing injury" **** i have seen on these rival boards, just sounds like sour grape fans are kind of willing it to happen and reminds me of the eagles fans Jeering and laughing while Micheal Irvin lay motionless at the link having suffered a serious injury . If you cannot hope to beat a team while they are at full strength then what is the point ... ?

. What happened to RGIII last season has nothing to do with RGIII being RGIII but about a QB playing a game . The injuries he endured could have happened to anyone and come about because football is a violent sport . I defy you to tell me a QB with the game and season on the line is not going to try and make the play that gives the team the extra yards it needs to convert a 3rd down ... as RGIII did in the ravens game ... I also defy you to show me a QB who has never been hurt or who would not have been hurt in the tackle RGIII hurt his leg in .

The Skins and I am sure the seahawks and the 49ers are all clarifying what they can and cannot get away with in the RO ... But by the Commanders doing this and leaking the story the Commanders maintain the illusion that the RO is going to be a big part of their offense which keeps teams game planning on what they saw last season .. Any time you can get the opposition worried about what you may or may not do in a handful of plays a game and they spend days and days planning against - and effectivly playing catchup, you are already ahead in the chess game .

 

[AmericasTeam31]

The pain simply does not come and go - he might be able to move around but he was effected throughout the game and that was obvious to anyone who watched him over that or any of last three games he played in, but his competive drive kept him going until his body could take no more . Just because Aikman did not mention his knee on that play doesn't mean Troy was not thinking it was effecting him, he had already mentioned it several times in the commentary .

Lets not forget the neither the play in the Seattle game where he tweaked his knee or the play he could not get up from involved any contact at all so that gives you an idea of just how bad a shape he was in .

That said the Seattle defense was the reason they were in the playoffs and they were on a role getting real hot later in the season so yeah the defense did make adjustments to limit the skins, but equally you have to wonder would a healthy RGIII and kyle and mike not come up with something to keep things rolling .. We have not even taken into account the negative vibe that enshrouds the entire team when they can see their leader is struggling and a little bit of the confidence and the swagger went ...

But back to the OP ... I know the Commanders are a rival but this 'RGIII is going to suffer a life changing injury" **** i have seen on these rival boards, just sounds like sour grape fans are kind of willing it to happen and reminds me of the eagles fans Jeering and laughing while Micheal Irvin lay motionless at the link having suffered a serious injury . If you cannot hope to beat a team while they are at full strength then what is the point ... ?

. What happened to RGIII last season has nothing to do with RGIII being RGIII but about a QB playing a game . The injuries he endured could have happened to anyone and come about because football is a violent sport . I defy you to tell me a QB with the game and season on the line is not going to try and make the play that gives the team the extra yards it needs to convert a 3rd down ... as RGIII did in the ravens game ... I also defy you to show me a QB who has never been hurt or who would not have been hurt in the tackle RGIII hurt his leg in .

The Skins and I am sure the seahawks and the 49ers are all clarifying what they can and cannot get away with in the RO ... But by the Commanders doing this and leaking the story the Commanders maintain the illusion that the RO is going to be a big part of their offense which keeps teams game planning on what they saw last season .. Any time you can get the opposition worried about what you may or may not do in a handful of plays a game and they spend days and days planning against - and effectivly playing catchup, you are already ahead in the chess game .

The way I see it is that it was a combination of factors that aided the Seahawk's comeback. If you watched the game above, then you immediately realize that Washington had horrible field position on the next two drives. The third and short throw that Griffin made was not affected by his knee whatsoever though. It was a small window and a dangerous throw to begin with. Smart play to put the ball where really no one could make a play on it. The bad field position was the key to getting Washington off the field and allowing Seattle to build momentum for their own offense. They began a series of long time consuming drives that disrupted the Washington offense and kept them from getting their flow back.
Another big factor was the fact that they did (for whatever reason) switch to man to man coverage. Many of the "high" throws that you contributed to Griffin's knee injury were simply thrown away because of coverage. Nearly every high throw I saw after the injury had a defender undercutting the route. There simply was no window for the ball to be completed. I agree that the switch to man to man was probably aided by the fact that the injury was aggravated, but the bottom line is that if you're down 14-0 in the playoffs, on the road and you're not making some sort of defensive adjustment then you don't deserve to be a coach in the NFL. Seattle's defense simply put the clamps down on the WR's and took away the passing game.

In reality though what that game showed me was that without the threat of a run from Griffin the Washington offense is stuck in the mud. The WR's struggle to get separation without a masterful play action fake from the QB. It really does become a testament to what he brings to the table and shows that if you can eliminate the threat of him running you will beat them. Easier said than done.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I'm really not focused on the read-option being killed off because of the possibility of the QB getting injured. I believe it will be figured out from a schematic standpoint and the possibility of the QB being more likely to get injured will be secondary.

Truth is, teams could still use the Wildcat or old school option style plays. They can simply bring a tailback to take the play from center and decide what they want to do with it. And they could use it in short yardage situations.

The reason why teams have abandoned it is that the rest of the league knows how to defend it and having a more standard formation with a QB that can throw the ball is a better way to go about it.

It works in the college game in part due to hashmarks and talent level discrepancy. But just as importantly, coordinators, assistants and Head coaches in the college game are not anywhere as smart as they are in the pro game.






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