Remembering 20th Century Fox's X-Men Movies

[nobody]

The possibility of a script character re-write would add to the various factors that plagued the movie if true.

Marsden: Sorry folks but this is a once-in-a-lifetime role playing in Superman Returns.
Screenwriter: So you're ditching us for another re-hashed Supes flick huh?
Marsden: Yep.

Screenwriter: Well alrighty then! We will make the necessary changes for your part in our movie.​

Marsden: Like what exactly?

Screenwriter: Let's see... I got it! Jean is re-born as Phoenix. The first person she sees is you. Then her out of control cosmic powers atomizes you! Good stuff if I do say so myself!
Marsden: Let me get this straight. The love of Jean's life gets obliterated? Without a trace? And in short order? That kind of ending seems pretty anticlimactic for a love struck couple doesn't it? There is no coming back from that. I thought my role would be re-written where I am off fighting with Spider-Man or some other nonsense. Guess I am the BIG sudden death of the movie right?
Screenwriter: Nah. We plan on quickly obliterating Patrick Stewart out of the movie too.​

Keep in mind that Bryan Singer left the franchise to direct Superman Returns, having pissed off Fox executives in the process. Marsden agreed to a role in it and then, due to scheduling conflicts and possible spite, there went Cyclops. lol

 

[nobody]

Oh yikes. lol

https://hypebeast.com/2019/6/x-men-dark-phoenix-100-million-usd-loss

 

[DallasEast]

I see Fox's X-Men as wasted opportunity. Some middling successes wrapped up in disappointing failures
(like this week). A tale of "what might have been", given the intellectual property, characters and potential stories they had. And Fox's failure (and when you ultimately sell the rights back, you failed) to truly capitalize on what they had only makes Disney and Marvel's continued and ever-increasing success that much more impressive.

I see it as the difference between careful planning and little or no planning. Fox truly had no big picture or long term plan from the very beginning, and that's why they picked characters off the shelf from whatever X-Men timeline they saw fit, no plan. And then they carelessly killed off a whole bunch in X3. Why? Again, no planning.

Making the right choices of who you have in charge is huge, and when you get it wrong like Fox did, or like D.C. did with Zack Snyder, the results can be catastrophic.

The X-Men films had a measure of success despite FOX, not because of them. And now I'm just eager to see Marvel do right by their own characters, both the X-Men and the Fantastic Four.

I said before this film was released, just get this over with. And based on the terrible reviews and box office, fans agree with me.

I am not as harsh about Snyder. Practically all recognized paid critics have panned Dark Phoenix though. And I do agree completely with Salon.com's Matthew Rosza assessment that Logan should have been FOX's final chapter for the franchise. Believe it or not, there are fans who are on record having enjoyed the movie as a good, quality film. All that said, I am almost in total agreement with everything you stated.

 

[Stash]

I am not as harsh about Snyder.

As with this run of the X-Men, the proof is in the pudding. Snyder managed to take everything DC had set for him - including their two most popular characters - by far - and screw it up so badly that now not one, but both of them are in limbo. And, while Marvel's Avengers are about to set the box office record for highest all-time grosses, Justice League was a miserable failure, and cause a total reboot of the way Warner Bros and DC are handling their characters. That's serious failure from the Christopher Nolan wannabe.

Practically all recognized paid critics have panned Dark Phoenix though. And I do agree completely with Salon.com's Matthew Rosza assessment that Logan should have been FOX's final chapter for the franchise. Believe it or not, there are fans who are on record having enjoyed the movie as a good, quality film.

Which film? Dark Phoenix?

All that said, I am almost in total agreement with everything you stated.

Thanks, as fan of superhero films in general, it does me no good to have to call out these disappointments for exactly what they are, but there's really no sugar-coating things. Fox was so far off the rails with this thing that they were doing that New Mutants horror thing, which may not even get a theatrical release! That's when you know things are bad, and irrevocably damaged beyond repair.

 

[DallasEast]

Keep in mind that Bryan Singer left the franchise to direct Superman Returns, having pissed off Fox executives in the process. Marsden agreed to a role in it and then, due to scheduling conflicts and possible spite, there went Cyclops. lol

Please do not remind me about Singer. I was very against him directing Days of Future Past in large part because of his work on Superman Returns. In my opinion, Singer has a decent feel for overseeing a comic book adaptation but he does not really 'get' the source material. Singer has the type of mindset that he would dismiss proper insight if given an opportunity of studying and learning the genre perspectives of a Joss Whedon or Christopher Nolan. Of course, SR screenwriter deserves criticism as well but my personal beef with Singer goes back to the original X-Men films.

 

[DallasEast]

Which film? Dark Phoenix?

Yep. For example, check out this Rotten Tomatoes Super Reviewer post:

4 out of 5 Stars
Chrisanne C.
21h ago
I'm not sure if I watched the same movie as the critics, but X-Men: Dark Phoenix was sooo good. Never mind the critics. The cast was brilliant and the direction and pacing was well done. James McAvoy stands out.
"
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/dark_phoenix#audience_reviews

**********************

I am not sure if I watched the same movie as Chrisanne C.

 

[DallasEast]

Oh yikes. lol

https://hypebeast.com/2019/6/x-men-dark-phoenix-100-million-usd-loss

ouch. SMH.

With such a questionable reception, Disney may not be in a huge rush to resurrect the franchise. In fact, Marvel Studios head Kevin Feige previously announced that the X-Men won’t join the MCU for at least five more years.

My most fervent hope is that Feige public comments reflect moreso about detailed planning Marvel/Disney has exhibited with Phases One, Two and Three of the MCU and less to do with knee jerk reaction to DP reception. The X-Men comics are FILLED with excellent stories that should be translated into very good films. It is really a matter of assembling the correct people in making the best translations possible.

 

[Stash]

Yep. For example, check out this Rotten Tomatoes Super Reviewer post:

4 out of 5 Stars
Chrisanne C.
21h ago
I'm not sure if I watched the same movie as the critics, but X-Men: Dark Phoenix was sooo good. Never mind the critics. The cast was brilliant and the direction and pacing was well done. James McAvoy stands out.
"
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/dark_phoenix#audience_reviews

**********************

I am not sure if I watched the same movie as Chrisanne C.

In my opinion, there will always be a few "SuperFans" that will praise anything they get. Slap an 'X' on a piece of crap and some people will say it's great. Look no further than the positive scores a trainwreck like X-Men Origins Wolverine received. Some fans will lower their expectations as far as they need to in order for a film to meet them.

Consider the source, she was far too kind two years ago to X-Men Apocalypse as well that she inexplicably gave 4 out of 5 stars:

X-Men: Apocalypse(2016)
2 years ago

X Men: Apocalypse lives up to the high expectations set by its predecessor, X-Men Days of Future Past, but the one thing that stopped this X Men Apocalypse from being a great film is that it lacked a compelling villain, having borrowed heavily from biblical themes that made it terribly nonsensical. Otherwise, it was a strong all round performance from its excellent cast. Good directing and sturdy editing helped to rein in what could otherwise have been an unwieldy action film overloaded with too many characters.

 

[cml750]

I am not interested in seeing this new one. Not only are the critics panning it but Sophie Turner stepped into the political ring with some comments recently which probably alienated a few potential moviegoers. That was not smart on her part especially just before a big premiere.

Note: As to her political comments, PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS THEM HERE!!!.

 

[nobody]

ouch. SMH.
My most fervent hope is that Feige public comments reflect moreso about detailed planning Marvel/Disney has exhibited with Phases One, Two and Three of the MCU and less to do with knee jerk reaction to DP reception. The X-Men comics are FILLED with excellent stories that should be translated into very good films. It is really a matter of assembling the correct people in making the best translations possible.

I think they're looking at it carefully because of fatigue with the franchise. Obviously fans are tired of the garbage. Maybe they're also working on how it will all fit together. I'd rather them wait 5 years and do it all right then have them rush it in the name of "fixing" things.

 

[Boom]

ouch. SMH.
My most fervent hope is that Feige public comments reflect moreso about detailed planning Marvel/Disney has exhibited with Phases One, Two and Three of the MCU and less to do with knee jerk reaction to DP reception. The X-Men comics are FILLED with excellent stories that should be translated into very good films. It is really a matter of assembling the correct people in making the best translations possible.

I'd love for Marvel to start with FF and get Doom introduced into the universe. He's the villain the MCU needs. Between them and whatever one-off character movie they introduce, it could easly be 5 years before the X-men need to be brought in. By FF2, Galactus/Silver Surfer can be introduced and now the MCU is ready for Secret Wars, taking all my money.

 

[Stash]

I'd love for Marvel to start with FF and get Doom introduced into the universe. He's the villain the MCU needs. Between them and whatever one-off character movie they introduce, it could easly be 5 years before the X-men need to be brought in. By FF2, Galactus/Silver Surfer can be introduced and now the MCU is ready for Secret Wars, taking all my money.

As a big Marvel fan, I have to say that I'm a bit concerned that they're in for a bit of a letdown. I don't think that they'll start losing money, but I look at their reported slate of upcoming films, and I disagree with their choices. And I think they'll see a dropoff from their current heights.

Given the reported films in development, I'm not too excited:

1. Black Widow? OK, I've long felt that they could do a 'Jason Bourne' type of espionage thriller featuring her and Hawkeye (heck Jeremy Renner has already done it). But now you're looking at a retro thing where you know she has no risk of dying. But I'll likely check that one out.
2. The Eternals? Good luck selling this property. It's been tried again and again and again and has never worked. It reminds me of the failed Inhumans attempt if anyone remembers that. (Despite being a huge fan, I avoided it like Agents of Shield)
3. Shang-Chi master of King **. This sounds like something they might have tried on Netflix along with Daredevil, not a big theatrical film.
4. Dr Strange 2? OK, but no solid release date, and let's face it, his first film wasn't a powerhouse among the list.
5. Black Panther 2? Same as above. I'd like to see some concrete plans and a release date.
6. Guardians 3. Sign me up, but it also looks a long way off. What's in line to fill in the gap between now and then?

Other than those, I haven't seen plans for anything. And most of what I listed is at least two years from release. What are they doing in the meantime?

It's looking like a great deal of their focus is being made on the episodic shows for Disney + but I don't think even they will be ready until next year.

I'm seeing a gap, and losing momentum, and afterwards some major uncertainty and questionable choices.

 

[Boom]

As a big Marvel fan, I have to say that I'm a bit concerned that they're in for a bit of a letdown. I don't think that they'll start losing money, but I look at their reported slate of upcoming films, and I disagree with their choices. And I think they'll see a dropoff from their current heights.

Given the reported films in development, I'm not too excited:

1. Black Widow? OK, I've long felt that they could do a 'Jason Bourne' type of espionage thriller featuring her and Hawkeye (heck Jeremy Renner has already done it). But now you're looking at a retro thing where you know she has no risk of dying. But I'll likely check that one out.
2. The Eternals? Good luck selling this property. It's been tried again and again and again and has never worked. It reminds me of the failed Inhumans attempt if anyone remembers that. (Despite being a huge fan, I avoided it like Agents of Shield)
3. Shang-Chi master of King **. This sounds like something they might have tried on Netflix along with Daredevil, not a big theatrical film.
4. Dr Strange 2? OK, but no solid release date, and let's face it, his first film wasn't a powerhouse among the list.
5. Black Panther 2? Same as above. I'd like to see some concrete plans and a release date.
6. Guardians 3. Sign me up, but it also looks a long way off. What's in line to fill in the gap between now and then?

Other than those, I haven't seen plans for anything. And most of what I listed is at least two years from release. What are they doing in the meantime?

It's looking like a great deal of their focus is being made on the episodic shows for Disney + but I don't think even they will be ready until next year.

I'm seeing a gap, and losing momentum, and afterwards some major uncertainty and questionable choices.

I figure there will be some superhero fatigue after the Infinity War culmination. I agree with you on the lackluster impact of those entries. I assume they will be single serving films. Maybe a lull for a year or so will allow the fanbase to get geeked up for the entries of FF and X-men. I doubt we'll see any 10 year arcs again.

 

[DallasEast]

I'd love for Marvel to start with FF and get Doom introduced into the universe. He's the villain the MCU needs. Between them and whatever one-off character movie they introduce, it could easly be 5 years before the X-men need to be brought in. By FF2, Galactus/Silver Surfer can be introduced and now the MCU is ready for Secret Wars, taking all my money.

Goofing off at work (nothing new) and thinking hard about your Victor Von Doom suggestion, which is excellent BTW. What has me troubled is how much importance will be placed on Doom as a villain.

In my opinion, all MCU phases have been akin to the levels played in a video game's story mode. Players face Mini-Bosses during the level and face a Big Boss before leveling up. Here is an outline of what I mean for the MCU to this point:

Phase I

Mini-Bosses

• Iron Monger (Iron Man)
• The Abomination (The Incredible Hulk)
• Whiplash (Iron Man 2)
• The Destroyer (Thor) - short fight
• Red Skull (Captain America: The First Avenger)

Big Boss
Loki-led Chautari (Marvel’s The Avengers)

Phase II

Mini-Bosses

• The Mandarin (Iron Man 3)
• Malekith (Thor: The Dark World)
• Brainwashed Bucky (Captain America: The Winter Soldier)
• Ronan (Guardians of the Galaxy)

Big Boss
Ultron (Avengers: Age of Ultron)

Mini-Boss/Prologue/Transitional To Next Level

• YellowJacket (Ant-Man)

Phase III

Mini-Bosses

• Iron Man/Hero vs Hero Free-For-All (Captain America: Civil War)
• Dormammu (Doctor Strange) - more like a battle of wits
• Ego (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2)
• The Vulture (Spider-Man: Homecoming)
• Surtur/Hulk/Hela (Thor: Ragnarok)
• Killmonger (Black Panther)

Final Big Boss Part 1 of 2
Thanos (Avengers: Infinity War)

Mini-Bosses/Intermission

• Ghost (Ant-Man and the Wasp)
• Kree (Captain Marvel) - Shame it was not Ronan

Final Big Boss Part 2 of 2
Thanos (Avengers: Endgame)

Mini-Boss/Prologue/Transitional To Next Level

• Mysterio? Or Other? (Spider-Man: Far From Home)

My level of respect for Doom would make him a 'Big Boss' but I wonder if Marvel/Disney would treat him as a 'Mini-Boss' instead?

 

[DallasEast]

4. Dr Strange 2? OK, but no solid release date, and let's face it, his first film wasn't a powerhouse among the list.
5. Black Panther 2? Same as above. I'd like to see some concrete plans and a release date.

I would state Black Panther 2 would likely enjoy similar box office impact as its $1.3+ billion predecessor. Differing fans' opinion aside, I think Disney would speculate BP 2 as a potential powerhouse given recent ticket sales.

 

[Roadtrip635]

As a big Marvel fan, I have to say that I'm a bit concerned that they're in for a bit of a letdown. I don't think that they'll start losing money, but I look at their reported slate of upcoming films, and I disagree with their choices. And I think they'll see a dropoff from their current heights.

Given the reported films in development, I'm not too excited:

1. Black Widow? OK, I've long felt that they could do a 'Jason Bourne' type of espionage thriller featuring her and Hawkeye (heck Jeremy Renner has already done it). But now you're looking at a retro thing where you know she has no risk of dying. But I'll likely check that one out.
2. The Eternals? Good luck selling this property. It's been tried again and again and again and has never worked. It reminds me of the failed Inhumans attempt if anyone remembers that. (Despite being a huge fan, I avoided it like Agents of Shield)
3. Shang-Chi master of King **. This sounds like something they might have tried on Netflix along with Daredevil, not a big theatrical film.
4. Dr Strange 2? OK, but no solid release date, and let's face it, his first film wasn't a powerhouse among the list.
5. Black Panther 2? Same as above. I'd like to see some concrete plans and a release date.
6. Guardians 3. Sign me up, but it also looks a long way off. What's in line to fill in the gap between now and then?

Other than those, I haven't seen plans for anything. And most of what I listed is at least two years from release. What are they doing in the meantime?

It's looking like a great deal of their focus is being made on the episodic shows for Disney + but I don't think even they will be ready until next year.

I'm seeing a gap, and losing momentum, and afterwards some major uncertainty and questionable choices.

Netflix set a high bar for episodic shows and I'm not sure that Disney is willing to get as dark, they've done the best at keeping true to the characters. It's a dang shame, wish they could have kept the darker characters that are more suited for a mature audience and mature storylines.

 

[DallasEast]

I figure there will be some superhero fatigue after the Infinity War culmination. I agree with you on the lackluster impact of those entries. I assume they will be single serving films. Maybe a lull for a year or so will allow the fanbase to get geeked up for the entries of FF and X-men. I doubt we'll see any 10 year arcs again.

Perhaps Disney/Marvel plans for the upcoming announced movies for Phase IV to be the temporary lull before updertaking another long-range, detailed film saga. Maybe they would infuse the newer saga with the recent character properties they acquired. If so, they would need to secure a new cache of actors, who would commit up to a decade of their career like Downey, Jackson, etc. I can see that type of extended preparation causing Disney to place a significant hiatus on the newer acquired character properties.

 

[DallasEast]

Netflix set a high bar for episodic shows and I'm not sure that Disney is willing to get as dark, they've done the best at keeping true to the characters. It's a dang shame, wish they could have kept the darker characters that are more suited for a mature audience and mature storylines.

In my opinion, Disney is only setting itself up for decreased success if it does not seriously cater a portion of streaming content to mature audience, as witnessed in the popularity demonstrated by the Netflix line of shows. All audience members do not seek 'safe' entertainment. Rather, some television and movie fans want soul gripping drama.

I hope Disney does not regress it regards to what it can offer to ALL their potential streaming subscribers after they repo'ed their darker content from Netflix. That would be a sad consequence.

 

[Stash]

I would state Black Panther 2 would likely enjoy similar box office impact as its $1.3+ billion predecessor. Differing fans' opinion aside, I think Disney would speculate BP 2 as a potential powerhouse given recent ticket sales.

Possibly. But we don't even have a start date for filming for it. Much less any potential storyline details. It has a heckuva predecessor to live up to.

 

[Stash]

Netflix set a high bar for episodic shows and I'm not sure that Disney is willing to get as dark, they've done the best at keeping true to the characters. It's a dang shame, wish they could have kept the darker characters that are more suited for a mature audience and mature storylines.

It will be interesting to see what the future holds for Daredevil and the rest of the Defenders.