Rest Of NFC East Has Eagles In Their Crosshairs

[ghostdog]

What made the Eagles so good this year wasn't that they had a talented roster, and an MVP caliber quarterback it was their quality depth when starters went down and a lot did. I don't think they're going to have that quality depth this year so they could falter. If they don't have a lot of injuries sure, I don't see anyone stopping them from winning the division but of injury strike, and they usually do I can see them finishing in the middle of the division.

I get your points but let's oook at it another way. Schematically what team in the division challenges the Eagles either offensively or defensively? I don't think any of them do. Offensively the Giants will be installing an intirely new system, the Commander has a brad new QB and Dallas uses an old scheme with a average QB. The Eagles have handled all of them in the past. They are in just their third year of running Scharwtz defense and are getting better at it. The one weakness they had was CB, I think Sydney Jones fixes that.
Now looking at the defenses within the division, none of them are elite. The Eagles ate up elite defenses all year. I know, I know you think you'll be better. Sure in theory you may. But do you honestly think any rookie will make your defense elite? I don't. I think Alston Jeffery is just getting started. He will be a monster this year. They have a gem in Cory Clemons and Jaye for the start of the season. The player I'm most excited about is Mac Hollins. I think he will be Tory Smith times ten. And unless you find LBs/safety's who can cover Ertz you have no chance.
And we won't lose too much depth.
The one player that I see leaving that is worrisome is Trey Burton. We developed him into a very versatile offensive weapon. But we have two TEs on our PS that were caught in the numbers crunch, I expect one to step up. Other than that we will have all our guys back. Patrick Robinson will be replaced by Mills in the slot. The part that you didn't mention was the players we get back. Peters will make Big V a valuable swing tackle. Can you imagine Clemons and Sproles in the same back field? And Jordan Hicks makes us a complete defense. Should be fun seeing everyone trying to catch us.

 

[Blue&Silver]

I get your points but let's oook at it another way. Schematically what team in the division challenges the Eagles either offensively or defensively? I don't think any of them do. Offensively the Giants will be installing an intirely new system, the Commander has a brad new QB and Dallas uses an old scheme with a average QB. The Eagles have handled all of them in the past. They are in just their third year of running Scharwtz defense and are getting better at it. The one weakness they had was CB, I think Sydney Jones fixes that.
Now looking at the defenses within the division, none of them are elite. The Eagles ate up elite defenses all year. I know, I know you think you'll be better. Sure in theory you may. But do you honestly think any rookie will make your defense elite? I don't. I think Alston Jeffery is just getting started. He will be a monster this year. They have a gem in Cory Clemons and Jaye for the start of the season. The player I'm most excited about is Mac Hollins. I think he will be Tory Smith times ten. And unless you find LBs/safety's who can cover Ertz you have no chance.
And we won't lose too much depth.
The one player that I see leaving that is worrisome is Trey Burton. We developed him into a very versatile offensive weapon. But we have two TEs on our PS that were caught in the numbers crunch, I expect one to step up. Other than that we will have all our guys back. Patrick Robinson will be replaced by Mills in the slot. The part that you didn't mention was the players we get back. Peters will make Big V a valuable swing tackle. Can you imagine Clemons and Sproles in the same back field? And Jordan Hicks makes us a complete defense. Should be fun seeing everyone trying to catch us.

You have it all planned out, but it's not always that easy. I'd be surprised if Jason Peters is on the roster, and Sproles isn't coming back. I think the Giants will be markedly better as well Eli playing in the quarterback friendly variation of the West Coast offense.

I believe every team will be better in the division. I wouldn't count us out just yet either.

A lot will depend on free agency, and the draft. You guys don't have some of your premium pick, and a lousy draft position. I'm not going to pretend I know until at least after the NFL draft.

Remember last year the Eagles were a completely different team after free agency in the NFL draft.

 

[Ghost12]

What happened from 2001-2004? Four Straight NFC East titles for the Eagles, wasn't it? And 8 overall since 2001?

I'd go with the Eagles because of the fact that 19 of 22 starters are still in place, and Howie Roseman has proven to be excellent at managing the cap and bringing in good players for less than market value, but you never know.

Whuh huh?? "Excellent at managing the cap"?? The Philadelphia Eagles are already over the cap for 2018 AND 2019.

Let me say that again: The Eagles are $13 million over the cap for 2 years from now. By comparison, the next nearest team for 2019, the Jacksonville Jaguars, are $28 million under. Philadelphia is literally $41 million worse off than the next lowest team (and $78 million worse than the league average)

I'll certainly give props where it's due: They went all in and won a Super Bowl. But rest assured the future is not bright in Philadelphia. Salary cap hell is the next exit down the NJ Turnpike.

 

[Valorius]

19 of 22 Eagles starters are already under contract for 2018.

You could also argue the Eagles have two MVP quality QB's.

 

[Valorius]

Whuh huh?? "Excellent at managing the cap"?? The Philadelphia Eagles are already over the cap for 2018 AND 2019.

Let me say that again: The Eagles are $13 million over the cap for 2 years from now. By comparison, the next nearest team for 2019, the Jacksonville Jaguars, are $28 million under. Philadelphia is literally $41 million worse off than the next lowest team (and $78 million worse than the league average)

I'll certainly give props where it's due: They went all in and won a Super Bowl. But rest assured the future is not bright in Philadelphia. Salary cap hell is the next exit down the NJ Turnpike.

Cutting Peters (6.66m free'd cap space), Torrey Smith (5m free'd cap space) and Vinny Curry (5m free'd cap space) will let the Eagles resign Patrick Robinson (PFF no6 ranked CB in the NFL in 2017) and Nigel Bradham.

Rookie DE Barnett outplayed Curry, especially in the Playoffs, and LT Big V was fantastic filling in for Peters, so they already have ready replacments for 2 of the 3 positions. They can then use their no1 pick on a wide receiver to replace Torrey Smith, who actually had a subpar year.

Given that Long and Blount played in 2017 for minimal salaries for the chance to win another SB, there is no reason to expect they won't do the same again.

The Eagles also have break away tail back Donnel Pumphrey, and Sidney Jones, who was projected as a top 10 pick at CB in last year's draft before he got hurt, coming back this season from injuries.

So any excitement about the demise of the Eagles due to salary cap issues, is probably greatly over-estimated.

The 2019 cap is not set, btw. It goes up every year, based on league revenues.

 

[Ghost12]

Cutting Peters (6.66m free'd cap space), Torrey Smith (5m free'd cap space) and Vinny Curry (5m free'd cap space) will let the Eagles resign Patrick Robinson (PFF no6 ranked CB in the NFL in 2017) and Nigel Bradham.

That is 21 of 22 starters from 2017.

Given that Long and Blount played in 2017 for minimal salaries for the chance to win another SB, there is no reason to expect they won't do the same again.

Of course there is. Once players get their ring - or for those guys, they got their 2 rings - then they tend to chase the money.

So any excitement about the demise of the Eagles due to salary cap issues, is greatly over-estimated.

The 2019 cap is not set, btw. It goes up every year, based on league revenues.

Yeah I know the 2019 cap is not set, but the projections are usually reasonably accurate and no matter how you slice it, Philly is in far, far worse shape than everyone else.

Eagles are headed straight for cap hell. Anyone who doesn't realize this is living in denial.

 

[Valorius]

Of course there is. Once players get their ring - or for those guys, they got their 2 rings - then they tend to chase the money.

Yeah I know the 2019 cap is not set, but the projections are usually reasonably accurate and no matter how you slice it, Philly is in far, far worse shape than everyone else.

Eagles are headed straight for cap hell. Anyone who doesn't realize this is living in denial.

I just explained to you exactly why the Eagles are in very manageable shape with the cap, in detail.

Cutting Peters, Curry and Smith free's 16.66m in cap space, and they already have the replacements for 2 of the 3 on the roster and under contract. Both of those players were huge contributers in the Eagles superbowl run.

 

[Ghost12]

I just explained to you exactly why the Eagles are in very manageable shape with the cap, in detail.

Cutting Peters, Curry and Smith free's 16.66m in cap space, and they already have the replacements for 2 of the 3 on the roster and under contract. Both of those players were huge contributers in the Eagles superbowl run.

And I already explained to you why you don't know what you are talking about. They have to cut those 3 guys just to get to the level of the next worst-off team, to say nothing of how far away from the league average they are.

Oh and BTW.... one thing you're going to discover is that players who win Super Bowls tend to become more and more expensive in their next deals. We've heard people spending a lot of time in here bragging about Philly's depth. If you think all those backups are going to be happy staying backups at their current wages, you are sadly mistaken.

Philly is in for a hard lesson. The salary cap era is chock full of 1-hit wonders. You may not believe me now, but one day you'll realize how wise I am.

 

[Sydla]

I just explained to you exactly why the Eagles are in very manageable shape with the cap, in detail.

Cutting Peters, Curry and Smith free's 16.66m in cap space, and they already have the replacements for 2 of the 3 on the roster and under contract. Both of those players were huge contributers in the Eagles superbowl run.

It's ironic to see Eagles fans trying to explain their cap situation away when for years, they bashed the Cowboys cap situation when they did the exact same type of things.

According to Over the Cap, the Eagles are currently projected to be $9MM OVER THE CAP. So even in freeing up $16MM in cap space with your moves, that leaves like $7MM in cap space and that's not enough to bring back Robinson, bring back Bradham, sign your draft picks and other fringe moves for depth. They will have to cut some other guys, like Celek. They will likely also have to start restructuring contracts, again, something you guys bashed the Cowboys for doing in previous years.

Funny how suddenly that's smart cap management now.

Let's also note that in cutting guys like Curry, it hurts overall depth. Curry was probably overpaid but he was pretty good against the run at the DE spot and Barnett isn't the run stopper he is. So while I loved Barnett and was hoping he would fall to the Cowboys in the last draft, he's not exactly the complete DE out there right now.

I won't sit here and say Philly is about to get destroyed by their cap situation but trying to argue that they aren't going to experience some pain in the next couple of years is probably wishful thinking at this point.

 

[Ghost12]

It's ironic to see Eagles fans trying to explain their cap situation away when for years, they bashed the Cowboys cap situation when they did the exact same type of things.

According to Over the Cap, the Eagles are currently projected to be $9MM OVER THE CAP. So even in freeing up $16MM in cap space with your moves, that's not enough to bring back Robinson, bring back Bradham, sign your draft picks and other fringe moves for depth. They will have to start restructuring contracts, again, something you guys bashed the Cowboys for doing in previous years.

Funny how suddenly that's smart cap management now.

Amen. And all of this is not to mention that there is a HUGE payday coming Wentz' way in 2 years.

It's actually quite laughable how pathetic shape they are in with their salary cap considering the fact that their starting QB's cap hit is something like $7 million. WT* are they going to do when they have to give him Garoppolo money??!?

 

[Ghost12]

Let's also note that in cutting guys like Curry, it hurts overall depth. Curry was probably overpaid but he was pretty good against the run at the DE spot and Barnett isn't the run stopper he is. So while I loved Barnett and was hoping he would fall to the Cowboys in the last draft, he's not exactly the complete DE out there right now.

 

[Sydla]

The Eagles most definitely will have some tough decisions coming up and while they can technically cobble together a large portion of the team they had this year for next season, beyond that, it's going to get dicey. That's just the reality.

 

[Valorius]

It's ironic to see Eagles fans trying to explain their cap situation away when for years, they bashed the Cowboys cap situation when they did the exact same type of things.

According to Over the Cap, the Eagles are currently projected to be $9MM OVER THE CAP. So even in freeing up $16MM in cap space with your moves, that leaves like $7MM in cap space and that's not enough to bring back Robinson, bring back Bradham, sign your draft picks and other fringe moves for depth. They will have to cut some other guys, like Celek. They will likely also have to start restructuring contracts, again, something you guys bashed the Cowboys for doing in previous years.

Funny how suddenly that's smart cap management now.

Let's also note that in cutting guys like Curry, it hurts overall depth. Curry was probably overpaid but he was pretty good against the run at the DE spot and Barnett isn't the run stopper he is. So while I loved Barnett and was hoping he would fall to the Cowboys in the last draft, he's not exactly the complete DE out there right now.

I won't sit here and say Philly is about to get destroyed by their cap situation but trying to argue that they aren't going to experience some pain in the next couple of years is probably wishful thinking at this point.

The Eagles would have $8.66m in free space if they cut the three players i suggested.

The money to sign rookies is segregated from the rest of the cap (unless that's changed?). The Eagles only have a 1st (32 overall), 4th, 5th 6th and 7th round pick anyway.

Bradham and Robinson's salaries can be pro rated over the length of their contracts. This is a common occurance, and yields contracts with small initial cap hits that escalate over the years of the deal.

Curry is vastly overpaid, he's not worth that salary to anyone. Barnett had 5 sacks taking about 40% of the Eagles snaps, and should be ready to take the leap to a starting double digit sack guy next year. You don't want those kinds of guys on the bench being spelled by players who only racked up 3 sacks the entire season any more than you can help. Barnett played the run very well for a rookie last year. Any dropoff from him should be compensated by getting back outstanding young MLB Jordan Hicks from injury in 2018.

Next year, all the dead money from Curry and Peters (another 10 million plus) will be free'd up for 2019.

Even if the Eagles do lose Bradham or Robinson (they'll definitely sign at least one of them), they will benefit from the veteran signing for less money to win a super bowl phenomenon.

Watch and see, the Eagles are going to come out of this sitting pretty.

 

[Valorius]

Amen. And all of this is not to mention that there is a HUGE payday coming Wentz' way in 2 years.

It's actually quite laughable how pathetic shape they are in with their salary cap considering the fact that their starting QB's cap hit is something like $7 million. WT* are they going to do when they have to give him Garoppolo money??!?

Don't forget that the Eagles are actually carrying a very expensive and very trade-able 2nd QB on the Roster. Nick Foles.

He's another $7m plus in cap space and at least 1 high 1st round pick in value anytime the Eagles want to pull the trigger.

Personally, i would trade Wentz for 3 no1 picks before i'd trade foles, but that's just me.

 

[Ghost12]

The Eagles would have $8.66m in free space if they cut the three players i suggested.

The money to sign rookies is segregated from the rest of the cap (unless that's changed?).

It has never been that way. The rookie pool is a subset within the team's overall salary cap.

Rookies count against the total cap just like any other player. They just have their own separate salary cap they also have to conform to.

 

[Ghost12]

Don't forget that the Eagles are actually carrying a very expensive and very trade-able 2nd QB on the Roster. Nick Foles.

He's another $7m plus in cap space and at least 1 high 1st round pick in value anytime the Eagles want to pull the trigger.

You guys have no idea if Wentz will even be ready for week 1 so I am not entirely sure that's the wisest move.

 

[Valorius]

The Eagles entire rookie class will only be about $1.5m in effective cap space.

 

[Valorius]

You guys have no idea if Wentz will even be ready for week 1 so I am not entirely sure that's the wisest move.

Like i said, personally, if i'm trading someone, it's NOT going to be the guy that is the no1 ranked all time team regular season and no1 ranked all time playoff passer in NFL history, who is also the reigning Super Bowl MVP.

I suspect going into 2018 Foles will start week 1, and if he keeps winning, it is very likely that Wentz never gets that job back. That's what history predicts anyway.

 

[Ghost12]

The Eagles entire rookie class will only be about $1.5m in effective cap space.

Their first round pick alone will be more than that number. But basically, you're admitting that in order to deal with their out of control cap, they essentially have to forfeit any chance of bringing in a talented rookie class.

Like i said, personally, if i'm trading someone, it's NOT going to be the guy that is the no1 ranked all time team regular season and no1 ranked all time playoff passer in NFL history, who is also the reigning Super Bowl MVP.

Well they certainly aren't going to get any trade value for the guy who may not even be ready to play when this season starts and no one knows how he will respond to his injury.

I suspect going into 2018 Foles will start week 1, and if he keeps winning, it is very likely that Wentz never gets that job back. That's what history predicts anyway.

You could limp through 2018 with that approach.... but it'll devastate your 2019 cap number even more than it is already out of control.

 

[Sydla]

Don't forget that the Eagles are actually carrying a very expensive and very trade-able 2nd QB on the Roster. Nick Foles.

He's another $7m plus in cap space and at least 1 high 1st round pick in value anytime the Eagles want to pull the trigger.

Personally, i would trade Wentz for 3 no1 picks before i'd trade foles, but that's just me.

High first round pick in value for Foles?

I’d love it if the Eagles traded Wentz and kept Foles. LOL.