Rest Of NFC East Has Eagles In Their Crosshairs

[ghostdog]

All I have to say is sit back and watch Howie work his magic.

 

[Valorius]

Their first round pick alone will be more than that number.

No, only a % of the actual salary counts against the cap. I read three long arguments on the subject before i came to that figure.

But basically, you're admitting that in order to deal with their out of control cap, they essentially have to forfeit any chance of bringing in a talented rookie class.

Well they have a limited number of picks. If they pick well, it could be a good draft. If they don't, it could really hurt them moving forward.

Well they certainly aren't going to get any trade value for the guy who may not even be ready to play when this season starts and no one knows how he will respond to his injury.
You could limp through 2018 with that approach.... but it'll devastate your 2019 cap number even more than it is already out of control.

Having Foles start while Wentz heals is pretty much a win-win. If Foles is great, then Wentz is injury insurance if Foles gets hurt.

If Foles is just ok, then he goes back to the bench when Wentz is healthy, and the Eagles can move him in the 2017 off season.

Having 2 good QB's is never a bad thing.

 

[Valorius]

High first round pick in value for Foles?

I’d love it if the Eagles traded Wentz and kept Foles. LOL.

Well, consider this....

CAREER PLAYOFF STATISTICS, ALL TIME NFL:

N. Foles: 71.9 comp% 113.2 rating
K. Warner Playoffs 71.1% comp 102.8 rating
D. Brees 65.9% comp 100.7 rating
A. Rodgers: 63.5 comp % 99.4 rating
R. Wilson: 61.6% 94.1 rating
T. Brady: 62.8% comp 90.9 rating
T. Aikman: 63.7% comp 88.3 rating
B. Favre: 60.8 comp % 86.3 rating
S. Young: 62% comp 85.8 rating
J. Montana: 62.7 comp% 84.6 rating
J. Kelly: 59.1% comp 72.3 rating

Every player on the above list could be considered an all time NFL great.

Nick Foles rankings:

No.1 all time Eagles regular season passer rating leader (92.7)
No.1 all time Eagles playoff winning % (.750)
No.1 all time Eagles and NFL single game TD record holder (7)
No.1 all time NFL TD/INT ratio after 25 starts
No.1 all time NFL single month passer rating (145+, Nov 2013)
No.1 all time NFL playoff completion % (71.9%)
No.1 all time NFL single season turn over ratio (2013, 27 TD: 2 INT)
No.1 all time NFL single postseason completion % (72.6%)
No.1 all time NFL career playoff passer rating (K.Warner and at )
No.3 all time NFL single season passer rating (A. Rodgers, P. Manning)
No.3 all time NFL single postseason playoff passer rating (J. Flacco 1st, D. Brees 2nd)

Nick Foles is one of 2 QB's in NFL history to have over a 100 passer rating in 1st 4 Playoff games (T. Aikman)

Nick Foles is one of 2 NFL QB's to pass for over 75% completions in consecutive playoff games (J. Montana)

Nick Foles is one of 2 QB's in NFL history to pass for 7 TD's and 0 INT's in a single game (P.Manning)

Nick Foles is one of 4 QB's in NFL history to pass for over 300yds in consecutive playoff games (Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady)

Nick Foles Eagles career regular season passer rating of 92.7 is the 13th greatest in NFL history, ahead of J.Montana, A.Luck, D.Marino, B.Favre, J.Kelly, J.Flacco, E.Manning, R.Staubach and countless other all time greats.


It may be hard to wrap your head around, but right now, today, Foles is one of the greatest QB's in history in both his playoff statistics, and the number of records he holds for a man who's only started 27 games in his career.

 

[Sydla]

And he has none of the tenure any of those guys has.

So what kind of pick would you want for him? Top 10?

I hope to God Roseman is as silly as you and trades Wentz.

 

[Valorius]

Nick Foles has had one of the greatest games in NFL history as a starter.
Nick Foles has had one of the greatest regular seasons in NFL history as a starter.
Nick Foles has had one of the greatest playoff runs in NFL history as a starter.

And done it under different coaching staffs.

Look at all those records and stats closely....he has broken or tied records held by all time greats like Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, and Payton Manning.

The guy is 6'6", has a big arm, and is an extremely accurate passer. I really have no idea what causes people to dismiss him.

 

[Valorius]

And he has none of the tenure any of those guys has.

So what kind of pick would you want for him? Top 10?

I hope to God Roseman is as silly as you and trades Wentz.

Wentz should demand RGIII type trade currency. Three number 1's.

 

[Ghost12]

No, only a % of the actual salary counts against the cap. I read three long arguments on the subject before i came to that figure.

Well you and those 3 long arguments are wrong. Look up the cap number of any rookie from this year's past class, do the math, and you'll see their cap number is treated no differently than any other player. The signing bonus gets prorated over the life of the deal and the first year salary hits the cap in full. The only "discount" comes from pushing some player out of the top 51 but that is minimal.

Well they have a limited number of picks. If they pick well, it could be a good draft. If they don't, it could really hurt them moving forward.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Valorius]

Only the top 51 players count against the cap, and the salary of the players they replace gets deducted. So rookies have what is called "effective salary cap numbers."

Here's the excerpt explaining how it works:

How does the “Rookie Pool” Impact the Salary Cap

This is probably the most confusing aspect for most people. Some people think that this is additional money added on top of the salary cap which is not the case at all. The “Rookie Pool” is a cap within the salary cap. It is essentially money that your team needs to place aside for your rookies. It is not added to your salary cap at all and it has to fit in the $143.28 million cap limit that is set for each team. If signing a rookie puts a team over the cap they will not be permitted to sign the player until they have the cap room to do so.

The second thing that confuses people is the amount of cap space required to fit in a rookie class. This is probably the biggest mistake made regarding rookie salaries and their role in cap management. Usually someone will see that rookie salaries are expected to total $6 million and then make the assumption that the team needs $6 million in cap space to sign their rookies. That’s not really correct.

During the offseason NFL roster expand to 90 players and only the top 51 players count against the salary cap. Every rookie that is signed will either replace a player currently in the top 51 or not count enough against the cap to be in the top 51, in which case only their prorated bonus money will count against the cap. This is why it is important to understand the concept of effective cap space.

To illustrate let’s look at the Jets. I project that the Jets will have a rookie pool number of $6,046,013 to spend on 6 draft picks. That is a lot of required cap space for a team that just spent like the Jets did in free agency. But when we look at effective cap space it will paint an entirely different picture.

The number 6 pick is projected to count $3,002,182 against the cap. But once he is signed he will bump out the number 51 player on the roster. I currently estimate that player to be IK Enemkpali whose base salary of $510,000 will fall off the cap books once number 6 is signed. That makes the effective cost of pick 6 to be just $2,492,182. When we do that for every pick in the Jets draft we get the following:

So really what the Jets will need is around $3.2 million in cap space to sign their rookies despite the total cap charge being over $6 million. You simply due this for your team to determine the charge. The quickest way to do it is to simply take the rookie pool we have listed and subtract from it $435,000 multiplied by the number of draft picks you have. This will represent the maximum possible amount the rookies will take up and is much faster than what I did above.

Do Rookies Immediately Count Against the Cap

No 99.9% of the time a drafted rookie will not count against the salary cap. The only time a drafted rookie will count against the cap is if a team has less than 51 players. Technically when a rookie is drafted they are tendered a minimum contract so if a team has less than 51 players the rookie would count for $435,000 against the salary cap, but not for the full cap charge. A team does not need to account for the full cap charge until the player is actually signed to a contract, which for most players will not happen until the summer, giving the team ample time to make any moves they need to be able to sign their rookie class."

Source: Over the cap, explaining the rookie salary cap 26 march, 2015.

 

[Valorius]

Thanks for the insight.

The NFL draft is a total crap shoot. No one knows what any player is going to do in the NFL...often for 3-4 years.

 

[Sydla]

Wentz should demand RGIII type trade currency. Three number 1's.

Keep dreaming

 

[StylisticS]

37-9 game or not, i still think Dallas can compete and beat the eagles. Much can change due to free agency and drafts.

 

[cowboyec]

Cowboys!!!

 

[mcmvp]

As of right now I'd say the Commanders are the most likely to give the Eagles the best competition this coming season because they have the best QB situation of the 3 other teams. However, their organization isn't run all that well so who knows?

 

[Sydla]

37-9 game or not, i still think Dallas can compete and beat the eagles. Much can change due to free agency and drafts.

Not with our current staff.

Until that changes we are looking up at them.

 

[Ghost12]

Only the top 51 players count against the cap, and the salary of the players they replace gets deducted. So rookies have what is called "effective salary cap numbers."

Here's the excerpt explaining how it works:

How does the “Rookie Pool” Impact the Salary Cap

This is probably the most confusing aspect for most people. Some people think that this is additional money added on top of the salary cap which is not the case at all. The “Rookie Pool” is a cap within the salary cap. It is essentially money that your team needs to place aside for your rookies. It is not added to your salary cap at all and it has to fit in the $143.28 million cap limit that is set for each team. If signing a rookie puts a team over the cap they will not be permitted to sign the player until they have the cap room to do so.

The second thing that confuses people is the amount of cap space required to fit in a rookie class. This is probably the biggest mistake made regarding rookie salaries and their role in cap management. Usually someone will see that rookie salaries are expected to total $6 million and then make the assumption that the team needs $6 million in cap space to sign their rookies. That’s not really correct.

During the offseason NFL roster expand to 90 players and only the top 51 players count against the salary cap. Every rookie that is signed will either replace a player currently in the top 51 or not count enough against the cap to be in the top 51, in which case only their prorated bonus money will count against the cap. This is why it is important to understand the concept of effective cap space.

To illustrate let’s look at the Jets. I project that the Jets will have a rookie pool number of $6,046,013 to spend on 6 draft picks. That is a lot of required cap space for a team that just spent like the Jets did in free agency. But when we look at effective cap space it will paint an entirely different picture.

The number 6 pick is projected to count $3,002,182 against the cap. But once he is signed he will bump out the number 51 player on the roster. I currently estimate that player to be IK Enemkpali whose base salary of $510,000 will fall off the cap books once number 6 is signed. That makes the effective cost of pick 6 to be just $2,492,182. When we do that for every pick in the Jets draft we get the following:

So really what the Jets will need is around $3.2 million in cap space to sign their rookies despite the total cap charge being over $6 million. You simply due this for your team to determine the charge. The quickest way to do it is to simply take the rookie pool we have listed and subtract from it $435,000 multiplied by the number of draft picks you have. This will represent the maximum possible amount the rookies will take up and is much faster than what I did above.

Do Rookies Immediately Count Against the Cap

No 99.9% of the time a drafted rookie will not count against the salary cap. The only time a drafted rookie will count against the cap is if a team has less than 51 players. Technically when a rookie is drafted they are tendered a minimum contract so if a team has less than 51 players the rookie would count for $435,000 against the salary cap, but not for the full cap charge. A team does not need to account for the full cap charge until the player is actually signed to a contract, which for most players will not happen until the summer, giving the team ample time to make any moves they need to be able to sign their rookie class."

Source: Over the cap, explaining the rookie salary cap 26 march, 2015.

Thank you for admitting I was right and restating everything I said. Rookies get treated against the cap like every other player. They are not treated separately and 100% of their salaries count against the cap (subject to the usual pro-rated signing bonus, etc).

As I stated, the only "discount" comes from pushing some other player out of the top-51, but that happens when you sign rookies or veterans.

 

[Ghost12]

Nick Foles has had one of the greatest games in NFL history as a starter.
Nick Foles has had one of the greatest regular seasons in NFL history as a starter.
Nick Foles has had one of the greatest playoff runs in NFL history as a starter.

And done it under different coaching staffs.

Look at all those records and stats closely....he has broken or tied records held by all time greats like Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, and Payton Manning.

The guy is 6'6", has a big arm, and is an extremely accurate passer. I really have no idea what causes people to dismiss him.

He has had his share of great games, no doubt. But he has also had his fair share of clunkers.

He had a monster year in 2013. He had a monster year this year. But if you were being honest, you would admit he also has a 2 year period where he was atrocious.

 

[mcmvp]

He has had his share of great games, no doubt. But he has also had his fair share of clunkers.

He had a monster year in 2013. He had a monster year this year. But if you were being honest, you would admit he also has a 2 year period where he was atrocious.

True, but it's also pretty easy to see that playing for Fisher was a big reason for that. It wasn't just Foles that succeeded elsewhere. Keenum did as well.

 

[Valorius]

Keep dreaming

Today hall of fame GM Bill Polian said FOLES is worth 2 No1s and 2 No2s.

So what is Wentz worth? To me, if you wanted the Eagles to trade him, you'd have to give up 3 No1s.

 

[Valorius]

37-9 game or not, i still think Dallas can compete and beat the eagles. Much can change due to free agency and drafts.

Thank you for admitting I was right and restating everything I said. Rookies get treated against the cap like every other player. They are not treated separately and 100% of their salaries count against the cap (subject to the usual pro-rated signing bonus, etc).

As I stated, the only "discount" comes from pushing some other player out of the top-51, but that happens when you sign rookies or veterans.

And based on all those facts, the Eagles draft picks, with the no 32 of the 1st round, a 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th, will need about $1.5m in cap room to sign their rookies.

 

[lwehlers]

Cause the Eagles didn't discover that in the previous 7 first place finishes they've had in this century.

The Eagles and the Giants are the NFC East's teams of the century, nay millenium, so far.

Eagles: 8 NFC East titles, 6 NFC championship games, 2 Superbowl appearances, 1 Superbowl victory.
Giants: 4 NFC East titles, 3 NFC championship games, 3 Superbowl appearances, 2 Superbowl victories.
Cowboys: 4 NFC East titles, 0 NFC championship games, 0 Superbowl appearances
Commanders: 2 NFC East titles, 0 NFC championship games, 0 Superbowl appearances.

this just proves how poorly managed and coached the cowboys and Commanders have been since 2000.