Revisiting: Felix Jones vs Tashard Choice

[KJJ]

I wish we still had Jenkins.

He was better suited to be a matador....OLE'!

 

[cowboys1981]

I don't know exactly what happened to Felix. I guess he just got too fat, because he was electric as a rookie.

Didn't he have some toe injury? He was very explosive as a rookie and his ability to juke by people was amazing.

 

[DFWJC]

It's amazing how we used to go so hard back and forth about both of these guys and they're both out of football. Neither basically has amounted to much at all.

That is all.

And that was one of the best draft classes for RB in decades.
Oh well.

 

[Bluestang]

And that was one of the best draft classes for RB in decades.
Oh well.

And to think that we could have had Chris Johnson because Wade Phillips wanted him.

 

[Shotgun Dave]

I thought choice was going to be our next big rb. Lol

I thought that about Woody Dantzler!

 

[DFWJC]

And to think that we could have had Chris Johnson because Wade Phillips wanted him.

or Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Jamal Charles, or wait forever and get Arian Foster.
I know, all in hindisite. But it's comical that there were so many, yet we not picked two that were not as good as any of those guys.
That seems so long ago at this point.

 

[kevm3]

Felix Jones was excellent when he was used for what he was. Change of pace back. He averaged something like 8 yards his rookie season.

Also, Garrett is still in the 'rebuilding process'? What other head coach needs 4 years to only get halfway through rebuilding?

 

[DiResta]

What other head coach needs 4 years to only get halfway through rebuilding?

Any coach with Jerry Jones as GM?

Jerry has had a lonngg time to make a mess of things

 

[ghst187]

He went from being bulked up to just fat. I realize that his final years were with Garrett as the HC, but I think most of the players that were here in the Wade era were not salvageable in terms of football mentality. They primary remaining guys are Romo and Witten who were Garrett guys from the beginning of Garrett's time here.

There were a few that made it out of the Ware era like Scandrick, but most developed that bad attitude with Ratliff being the top example of the bad attitude.

Ahmad Dixon would never have been cut if Wade was the HC. Wade probably wouldn't even tell the front office about any screw-ups by players.

I've been to training camp under both Wade and Garrett (Jimmy also). It was a night a day difference in the team attitude. The players were very lackadaisical in the Wade training camps. Seeing guys like Roy Williams and Martellus loafing around was pathetic. Practices under Garrett were organized and players appeared focused.

Most people blame Garrett, injuries or drafting for the past few years of futility, but IMO, the biggest problem was that they had to eventually eliminate the majority of the players that were here in the Wade era because once players get the entitled attitude, it's almost impossible to reverse it while they're still on that team. Having to eliminate all of those players resulted in a slow rebuilding process because due to salary issues, they couldn't all be jettisoned immediately.

I would be surprised if anybody that attended training camps under both Wade and Garrett didn't agree with me.

not disagreeing or arguing with you, just pointing out the irony…..that the camp cupcake team under Wade did manage to go 13-3..and since wade we haven't had a winning season.

 

[Stash]

Mike Jenkins had a decent season last year with 65 tackles, 6 passes defensed and 2 INTs. He only got a 1-year, 1.5M contract from the Bucs. He missed most of the preseason with a hamstring injury.

Talent was never his issue. I was all attitude.

IMO, Mike Jenkins and Felix were on a long list of players ruined by Wade Phillips. The sense of entitlement during the Wade years was out of control. Ratliff was the leader of the Entitlement Bunch, but it affected many players.

Wade's laid back approach didn't help, but I don't think either player had a great attitude either.

Jenkins seems like a me-first diva, while Felix never seemed passionate enough about football.

I think it's really condemning that Felix is completely out of the league at this point.

 

[Stash]

He went from being bulked up to just fat. I realize that his final years were with Garrett as the HC, but I think most of the players that were here in the Wade era were not salvageable in terms of football mentality. They primary remaining guys are Romo and Witten who were Garrett guys from the beginning of Garrett's time here.

There were a few that made it out of the Ware era like Scandrick, but most developed that bad attitude with Ratliff being the top example of the bad attitude.

Ahmad Dixon would never have been cut if Wade was the HC. Wade probably wouldn't even tell the front office about any screw-ups by players.

I've been to training camp under both Wade and Garrett (Jimmy also). It was a night a day difference in the team attitude. The players were very lackadaisical in the Wade training camps. Seeing guys like Roy Williams and Martellus loafing around was pathetic. Practices under Garrett were organized and players appeared focused.

Most people blame Garrett, injuries or drafting for the past few years of futility, but IMO, the biggest problem was that they had to eventually eliminate the majority of the players that were here in the Wade era because once players get the entitled attitude, it's almost impossible to reverse it while they're still on that team. Having to eliminate all of those players resulted in a slow rebuilding process because due to salary issues, they couldn't all be jettisoned immediately.

I would be surprised if anybody that attended training camps under both Wade and Garrett didn't agree with me.

Romo, Witten, and Ware are Parcells guys, not Garrett guys. He doesn't deserve any credit for the players they had already become before he ever got here.

I think your cycle is more indicative of the owners whims than anything else.

He's bounced back and forth between authoritative coaches with dominant personalities to laid-back cream puffs who went with the flow.

And the players have responded and behaved according to what they could and couldn't get away with.

 

[Stash]

He has rebuilt the team. Between bad contracts and injuries (both not his fault) the defense isn't what it should be yet.

He's rebuilt half of it anyway.

But in the current NFL, you get four years before you're restocking again.

And the attempts to stock the defense have been both insufficient and bad, resulting in the team being in the position they're in, chasing after whatever scraps they can get to field a defense.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Sometimes its not even about talent in this league. Its about situations and systems and if they fit your skillset. Tashard and Felix had some solid years here in Dallas as did Barber. All 3 left and weren't nearly as good. Felix was never the same once he gained weight and lost speed.

IMO, they had the average NFL career. I wouldn't call them busts but they've had better careers than the majority of players to step in this league.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Romo, Witten, and Ware are Parcells guys, not Garrett guys. He doesn't deserve any credit for the players they had already become before he ever got here.

I think your cycle is more indicative of the owners whims than anything else.

He's bounced back and forth between authoritative coaches with dominant personalities to laid-back cream puffs who went with the flow.

And the players have responded and behaved according to what they could and couldn't get away with.

For Parcells guys.......Romo, Witten and Ware sure got content with playing average football for a average team. I can't even call them Parcells guys. They are more Wade guys IMO. You inherit the personality of your coach and boy did they........

He's rebuilt half of it anyway.

But in the current NFL, you get four years before you're restocking again.

And the attempts to stock the defense have been both insufficient and bad, resulting in the team being in the position they're in, chasing after whatever scraps they can get to field a defense.

There hasn't really been any stocking though. They had a solid defense and when the secondary got bad they went and got Carr and Claiborne.

But with this team.....you fix one hole and two others pop up.

 

[Stash]

For Parcells guys.......Romo, Witten and Ware sure got content with playing average football for a average team. I can't even call them Parcells guys. They are more Wade guys IMO. You inherit the personality of your coach and boy did they........

I honestly never got that impression from any of them, but more that they weren't able to get enough other players to play up to their level of talent and commitment.

There hasn't really been any stocking though. They had a solid defense and when the secondary got bad they went and got Carr and Claiborne.

But with this team.....you fix one hole and two others pop up.

Poor investments coupled with a lack of investment if you ask me.

Spend huge on man corners and then decide to switch to a zone scheme?

Two second rounders on linebackers who have disappointed due to injury and inconsistent play.

But they still haven't made enough investment in the defensive line for such a radical scheme change.

 

[Stash]

Sometimes its not even about talent in this league. Its about situations and systems and if they fit your skillset. Tashard and Felix had some solid years here in Dallas as did Barber. All 3 left and weren't nearly as good. Felix was never the same once he gained weight and lost speed.

IMO, they had the average NFL career. I wouldn't call them busts but they've had better careers than the majority of players to step in this league.

Compare 1st rounder Felix to the rest of his draft class and your opinion will likely change.

 

[Alexander]

Mike Jenkins had a decent season last year with 65 tackles, 6 passes defensed and 2 INTs. He only got a 1-year, 1.5M contract from the Bucs. He missed most of the preseason with a hamstring injury.

Talent was never his issue. I was all attitude.

IMO, Mike Jenkins and Felix were on a long list of players ruined by Wade Phillips. The sense of entitlement during the Wade years was out of control. Ratliff was the leader of the Entitlement Bunch, but it affected many players.

The culture of entitlement does not begin and end with the head coach. It comes from all aspects of the organization.

 

[dragon_mikal]

For Parcells guys.......Romo, Witten and Ware sure got content with playing average football for a average team. I can't even call them Parcells guys. They are more Wade guys IMO. You inherit the personality of your coach and boy did they........

Please elaborate because if you're trying to imply that Romo and Witten are "soft" you should be laughed off this forum.

Provide evidence that Witten, a future HoFer, is average. Please point out when Romo has been average.

Being on a bad or average team doesn't suddenly make the best players on that team average.

 

[Bluestang]

I see some finger pointing in this thread that just doesn't make an sense.

1. How is Wade responsible for Felix Jones' NFL career - if you want to call it that - when he wanted Chris Johnson over Jones in the first place. Obviously, he got over ruled by someone but yet Wade gets the blame?

2. Jay Ratliff was a Pro Bowl player under Wade, he earned his 3rd Pro Bowl berth the year that Wade got fired. Ratliff didn't start to have issues with the Cowboys until he got hurt in 2012. I'm failing to see how he became the leader of the "Entitlement Bunch" when he was playing at a high level long after Wade was dismissed.

3. Whether it's Camp Cupcake or Camp Organized, this team still shows the ability to beat a good team on Sunday and then follow it up with a loss to a team that they should be blowing out. The scores may be closer under JG but the results are the same, win a game that were listed as under dogs and lose a game that we should have won.

4. The drafting under Wade and JG is both questionable at best. While Wade was known for not getting too involved in the scouting process, JG has drafted offensive players causing an imbalance that we see with the defense now. I would even go step further and say that the constant changes on the defensive side of the ball (34 -> 4-3/Zone/Man/revolving door of DCs) are why the defense is in disarray.

I'll finish my post with this...there hasn't been a clear direction or philosophy with this entire team in a long time. Garrett has changed his philosophy on offense multiple times with the same results. He's changed the defense multiple times with worse results.

So how can you conclude that JG is doing a much better job than previous HCs?

 

[ufcrules1]

It's amazing how we used to go so hard back and forth about both of these guys and they're both out of football. Neither basically has amounted to much at all.

That is all.

I forgot about them until you just mentioned them. So many people were in love with Felix and he was nothing more than a joke. Super dumb player that was massively overrated!