Revisiting: Felix Jones vs Tashard Choice

[xwalker]

Romo, Witten, and Ware are Parcells guys, not Garrett guys. He doesn't deserve any credit for the players they had already become before he ever got here.

I think your cycle is more indicative of the owners whims than anything else.

He's bounced back and forth between authoritative coaches with dominant personalities to laid-back cream puffs who went with the flow.

And the players have responded and behaved according to what they could and couldn't get away with.

It was Romo, Witten and Garrett against TO and his followers back when TO tried to usurp the OC's authority. Parcells should definitely get credit for breaking in Romo and Witten, but once Wade was the HC, it's obvious that Witten, Romo and Garrett were a tight group. They even show up to other sporting event together.

 

[xwalker]

Wade's laid back approach didn't help, but I don't think either player had a great attitude either.

Jenkins seems like a me-first diva, while Felix never seemed passionate enough about football.

I think it's really condemning that Felix is completely out of the league at this point.

Think about what would have happened to Mike Jenkins if Parcells had been the HC. He would either have been gone very quickly or more likely would have reached his potential and been near-Pro Bowl player. Wade took borderline personalities like Jenkins and made them worse. Then whoever inherited the team from Wade had a disaster to deal with. I'm not trying to say that somebody other than Garrett couldn't have done better, but it was a huge mess to deal with and it couldn't be done quickly because you can't just immediately start cutting players with big guaranteed money in their contracts.

Hargaugh in SF inherited the opposite type of team from Mike Singletary. While Singletary was a little nutty and didn't quite have what it takes to finish the job, he did instill a strong sense of discipline in that team. Wade probably inherited similar talent from Parcells that Harbaugh inherited from Singletary, but Wade ran it into the ground with Zero discipline or organization while Harbaugh took something good and made it better.

Obvious, the final responsibility is with Jerry for hiring Wade, but I just don't think people realize what a mess Garrett go into, especially when you consider contract issues that are not easily resolved. Thankfully, Garrett took over before Wade had a chance to ruin Dez.

 

[xwalker]

not disagreeing or arguing with you, just pointing out the irony…..that the camp cupcake team under Wade did manage to go 13-3..and since wade we haven't had a winning season.

Wade took over a Parcells team like Switzer took over a Jimmy team. The Cowboys players basically coached and disciplined themselves to a that last Super Bowl in 1995 with the structure that Jimmy put in place.

I don't think anybody believes that Switzer should get credit for that 1995 Super Bowl despite Jimmy having been gone 2 years at that point.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I see some finger pointing in this thread that just doesn't make an sense.

1. How is Wade responsible for Felix Jones' NFL career - if you want to call it that - when he wanted Chris Johnson over Jones in the first place. Obviously, he got over ruled by someone but yet Wade gets the blame?

2. Jay Ratliff was a Pro Bowl player under Wade, he earned his 3rd Pro Bowl berth the year that Wade got fired. Ratliff didn't start to have issues with the Cowboys until he got hurt in 2012. I'm failing to see how he became the leader of the "Entitlement Bunch" when he was playing at a high level long after Wade was dismissed.

It's an absolute joke. It's the same old routine from 2010-11. Wade is fat and old and has a country accent and isn't media savvy, so he makes an easy scapegoat for all of Garrett's failures. Hell, Wade didn't even get to pick his coordinators, coaches, or draft picks... But he had enough power to ruin the organization and make it impossible for poor Jason.

And as far as the training camps, I remember Babe saying in 2008 or 2009 that the camp he saw was one of the best he'd ever seen including his playing days. And a couple of weeks ago, the Ticket guys who were at camp for a full week said our camp was a joke compared to what they'd seen on Hard Knocks from the Bengals and Falcons. So there's that.

 

[Bluestang]

It's an absolute joke. It's the same old routine from 2010-11. Wade is fat and old and has a country accent and isn't media savvy, so he makes an easy scapegoat for all of Garrett's failures. Hell, Wade didn't even get to pick his coordinators, coaches, or draft picks... But he had enough power to ruin the organization and make it impossible for poor Jason.

And as far as the training camps, I remember Babe saying in 2008 or 2009 that the camp he saw was one of the best he'd ever seen including his playing days. And a couple of weeks ago, the Ticket guys who were at camp for a full week said our camp was a joke compared to what they'd seen on Hard Knocks from the Bengals and Falcons. So there's that.

Pretty sad times when fantasy land stories are being made up about previous HCs. It would probably be easier to admit that their evaluation of JG was wrong rather than carry on some sort of martyr story to make it seem like JG started with nothing.

If JG gets the axe after this season I wouldn't be surprised if the roles get switched and the new HC is now saddled with the problems that he has to overcome because of JG.

 

[Bluestang]

One thing about Hard Knocks this year.

I came away thinking that Roddy White is a diva by the way he was portrayed.

He didn't practice hard, they played silly games during practice, and in the meeting room he didn't pay much attention.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, but really IMO Hard Knocks is really turning football into a joke.

 

[TheDallasDon]

When Felix first came here, he was a bler on my TV screen running through the line. The burst he had was crazy.

Thought to myself this kid had something, then he lost his burst and I kept waiting and waiting........ never to see it again

 

[Stash]

It was Romo, Witten and Garrett against TO and his followers back when TO tried to usurp the OC's authority. Parcells should definitely get credit for breaking in Romo and Witten, but once Wade was the HC, it's obvious that Witten, Romo and Garrett were a tight group. They even show up to other sporting event together.

The foundation was laid by Parcells though, not Garrett.

 

[Zman5]

He went from being bulked up to just fat. I realize that his final years were with Garrett as the HC, but I think most of the players that were here in the Wade era were not salvageable in terms of football mentality. They primary remaining guys are Romo and Witten who were Garrett guys from the beginning of Garrett's time here.

There were a few that made it out of the Ware era like Scandrick, but most developed that bad attitude with Ratliff being the top example of the bad attitude.

Ahmad Dixon would never have been cut if Wade was the HC. Wade probably wouldn't even tell the front office about any screw-ups by players.

I've been to training camp under both Wade and Garrett (Jimmy also). It was a night a day difference in the team attitude. The players were very lackadaisical in the Wade training camps. Seeing guys like Roy Williams and Martellus loafing around was pathetic. Practices under Garrett were organized and players appeared focused.

Most people blame Garrett, injuries or drafting for the past few years of futility, but IMO, the biggest problem was that they had to eventually eliminate the majority of the players that were here in the Wade era because once players get the entitled attitude, it's almost impossible to reverse it while they're still on that team. Having to eliminate all of those players resulted in a slow rebuilding process because due to salary issues, they couldn't all be jettisoned immediately.

I would be surprised if anybody that attended training camps under both Wade and Garrett didn't agree with me.

Romo and Witten are not Garrett guys. They are Parcells guys.

So if Wade was the reason some of these guys turned out bad, why did they all (Rat, Jenkins, Felix) all had best seasons under Wade? If your opinion has any truth in it, they all should have had better seasons after Wade but they didn't.

 

[xwalker]

Romo and Witten are not Garrett guys. They are Parcells guys.

So if Wade was the reason some of these guys turned out bad, why did they all (Rat, Jenkins, Felix) all had best seasons under Wade? If your opinion has any truth in it, they all should have had better seasons after Wade but they didn't.

How was their season(s) in the first half of 2010 when the defense quit on Wade?

 

[Zman5]

How was their season(s) in the first half of 2010 when the defense quit on Wade?

What does that have to do with what I asked?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Please elaborate because if you're trying to imply that Romo and Witten are "soft" you should be laughed off this forum.

Provide evidence that Witten, a future HoFer, is average. Please point out when Romo has been average.

Being on a bad or average team doesn't suddenly make the best players on that team average.

Calm down. For starters I never called any of those guys "soft" or "average". My OPINION is that a lot of guys on this team got content with how things are around here. Proof was last year how when Dez was on the sidelines ranting about the piss poor play and everyone looked disinterested like they weren't just getting dominated.

And we can constantly sit here and blame the "role players" but the fact is in all of those where it was decide or go home...whether it was in the post season or last game of the season....how many plays did you see our "playmakers" make?

Its just my opinion but I think Demarco, Dez and Sean Lee just come from a different type of mindset.

 

[Bluestang]

What does that have to do with what I asked?

Don't expect any straight answers from that poster. He seems to ignore the entirety of that 1-7 start of the 2010 season.

Never mind that in that stretch the offense played pretty poorly with 3 good running backs to choose from. They rushed for over 100 yds 3 times in that span and lost 2 of those games with them only being able to score 7 pts on 1 of those losses.

Also, somehow, someway after Wade was fired, the Cowboys would rush for 100 yds or more the rest of the 8 game stretch.

And to further analyze how poor the offense was...in those first 8 games, the offense out gained the opposition in yards 6 times but they turned the ball over 19 times and didn't finish drives resulting in no score or settling for field goals when they needed 6 pts.

But blaming Wade Phillips's defense sounds good, because it makes JG look better than what he really is at this point, doesn't it?

 

[Zman5]

Think about what would have happened to Mike Jenkins if Parcells had been the HC. He would either have been gone very quickly or more likely would have reached his potential and been near-Pro Bowl player. Wade took borderline personalities like Jenkins and made them worse. Then whoever inherited the team from Wade had a disaster to deal with. I'm not trying to say that somebody other than Garrett couldn't have done better, but it was a huge mess to deal with and it couldn't be done quickly because you can't just immediately start cutting players with big guaranteed money in their contracts.

Hargaugh in SF inherited the opposite type of team from Mike Singletary. While Singletary was a little nutty and didn't quite have what it takes to finish the job, he did instill a strong sense of discipline in that team. Wade probably inherited similar talent from Parcells that Harbaugh inherited from Singletary, but Wade ran it into the ground with Zero discipline or organization while Harbaugh took something good and made it better.

Obvious, the final responsibility is with Jerry for hiring Wade, but I just don't think people realize what a mess Garrett go into, especially when you consider contract issues that are not easily resolved. Thankfully, Garrett took over before Wade had a chance to ruin Dez.

You need to get your fact straight. Only time Mike Jenkins DID go to the Pro bowl was when he was playing for Wade.

 

[Venger]

It's an absolute joke. It's the same old routine from 2010-11. Wade is fat and old and has a country accent and isn't media savvy, so he makes an easy scapegoat for all of Garrett's failures. Hell, Wade didn't even get to pick his coordinators, coaches, or draft picks... But he had enough power to ruin the organization and make it impossible for poor Jason.

Wade is like Marshal Petain. He didn't lose France, but he didn't do a damn thing to save it either, and was in obsequious compliance with the perpetrator.

 

[Bleu Star]

Tashard > Felix

IJS