Rob Peter to Pay Paul?

[Whirlwin]

I'm just happy William McClay is involved these last few seasons.

 

[Diehardblues]

I like your optimism but use what to move up earlier in the 2nd? I am not following.

Claiborne reminds us because of the player, not the trade. Would you give up a 2nd and 3rd to get Lawrence again?

Yes, Lawrence has proved his worth for a 2nd and 3rd. And that’s how we could move up earlier in 2nd round this year if there’s someone we want.

Sometimes the value of a late 1st rounder and early 2nd rounder is marginal.

I wouldn’t trade our 2020 1st next year. I’d save it in case we need a key position we can’t afford to extend.

 

[Stash]

stash, not sure I consider trading for Cooper mortgaging this draft, there isn't a WR in this draft that could step in and do what he can do for us. Eventually, could be but I am a "now" fan. Do everything they can now to win.

I don't mean that in a negative way. I agree with you that Cooper is better than any WR this year. What I mean is that they used a future asset and now must sit back and 'pay the price' during the first round of this year's draft.

If I thought they could get a real difference maker at 58 might not feel that way but this is a much better drafting club the higher they get to pick. Unless they get another Charleton.

I want to pay the bill now rather than continuing to borrow from the future. It's one thing to do it in a cap that continues to rise. it's another to potentially miss out on a loaded draft before you already traded a valuable commodity away.

 

[Rockport]

I guess the answer to whether to use the 2020 1st rounder in order to trade up into the 1st in this draft is dependent on how optimistic you are that a step in difference maker can be had at 58.

Also depends on if you think Booger can sit idly by and not get into the 1st round and I gotta say I would have a hard time doing that as well. When I play the ponies, I never sit out, I come to play.

This also depends on what you foresee with the players that will be up and would that 1st be more of a necessity in 2020?

One thing to consider, any team that is eying a franchise QB in that 2020 draft would be a more than willing partner to gather some draft capital. And there are teams that are already planning on going after Tua.

So, here are the questions. Move up into the 1st using the 2020 1st or stay put? If you want to go up, to what spot and which payer or two would you want? I do not think going up into the 1st utilizing the picks they have in the later rounds will work as they need players.

This team has the talent to win the SB so giving up all those picks would be ludicrous. Not even worth considering. Stay put at 58 maybe move up a spot or to if someone you like is getting close to you and start the season.

 

[Diehardblues]

There is an argument to stay put. We haven’t fared too badly in 2nd round overall recently.

2018 50th pick Conner Williams
2017 60th pick Chidobe Awuzie
2016 34th pick Jaylon Smith
2014 34th pick Demarcus Lawrence

Maybe there’s an injury or drug related risk who falls to 2nd round?

Besides those risk the only sure Bust we’ve had in 2nd round under Garrett is Escobar.

 

[Diehardblues]

I don't mean that in a negative way. I agree with you that Cooper is better than any WR this year. What I mean is that they used a future asset and now must sit back and 'pay the price' during the first round of this year's draft.



I want to pay the bill now rather than continuing to borrow from the future. It's one thing to do it in a cap that continues to rise. it's another to potentially miss out on a loaded draft before you already traded a valuable commodity away.

Yea , I’d probably agree. Using this years #1 was out of dire necessity to save 2018 season.

Not sure we need to be as bold this year unless our season is tanking again and need another desperation move.

We were pretty lucky Cooper paid off. Imagine if it hadnt. We’d be like a 6-10 dumpster fire team without a 1st round pick.

 

[nobody]

Yes, Lawrence has proved his worth for a 2nd and 3rd. And that’s how we could move up earlier in 2nd round this year if there’s someone we want.

Sometimes the value of a late 1st rounder and early 2nd rounder is marginal.

I wouldn’t trade our 2020 1st next year. I’d save it in case we need a key position we can’t afford to extend.

I agree completely. You could also add in "or in case a player at a key position suffers too nasty of an injury."

We basically got a WR out of our 1st rounder this time and he should be a wonderful weapon for us for years to come. Plus, if the Cowboys are expected to do well this season (and they are), then teams will undervalue next years 1st and we'd have to give up more. Stay put.

 

[CouchCoach]

You don't know how you draft pick is going to work out until his second or third season. Knowing what we know now about Lawrence current I wouldn't move up. Well it all depends on how much I have to give up to move up. If I thought moving up to get a particular player or getting in a player in free agency would actually bring me a championship. Then maybe I would yes too many scenarios too much speculation. But it's a good conversation

The question to me is how badly does the team need an immediate impact player like Martin or Vander Esch. If one feels the team is good enough with a player at 58 that may develop into something in 2 or 3 years then stand pat but if you feel that can immediately upgrade the D, either the front or back end, to true contender status, then that might be worth considering.

There are DT's in this draft that are better than the ones in the NFL now except for a small hand few. It would take more than just the 1st in 2020, most likely, to move up to get a blue chipper but improving the middle of the DL with Lawrence and Quinn on the wings so there are more options to bring the pressure.

The tricky part is that it needs to be a position that a rook can move into and be effective and DT is one of those, FS? Probably some growing pains. There are two blue chip TE's that will go in the 1st but even as good as they are, still need developmental time.

If the player cannot be a 2019 impact player than I wouldn't give up the 2020 1st. There's no way of telling but there wouldn't be in 2020 either. To me, it's all about moving the window forward. I think we're a top 6 NFC team but the right player could put us in top 2 or 3.

 

[Melonfeud]

I guess the answer to whether to use the 2020 1st rounder in order to trade up into the 1st in this draft is dependent on how optimistic you are that a step in difference maker can be had at 58.

Also depends on if you think Booger can sit idly by and not get into the 1st round and I gotta say I would have a hard time doing that as well. When I play the ponies, I never sit out, I come to play.

This also depends on what you foresee with the players that will be up and would that 1st be more of a necessity in 2020?

One thing to consider, any team that is eying a franchise QB in that 2020 draft would be a more than willing partner to gather some draft capital. And there are teams that are already planning on going after Tua.

So, here are the questions. Move up into the 1st using the 2020 1st or stay put? If you want to go up, to what spot and which payer or two would you want? I do not think going up into the 1st utilizing the picks they have in the later rounds will work as they need players.

While it's gonna be mentally tough to foot tap thru day one of the draft, ( I've took a pass a time or two at the horse track betting counters,to change up my luck,& it's not like we've not gotten great value out of this #1 pick already, ya know, Coach?) it's something, I think,that is going to be necessary to do,having an eye on the 2020 draft, as to be honest, we don't really know just where we'll be structurally deficient at by then,,,er,,,other than 1 year acquisition's likely rolling on.

 

[CouchCoach]

This team has the talent to win the SB so giving up all those picks would be ludicrous. Not even worth considering. Stay put at 58 maybe move up a spot or to if someone you like is getting close to you and start the season.

That's the bugaboo, Rocky. I see this team as a top 4-6 NFC team but not quite at that LA, NO or CHI level yet. I see them in that 2nd group with MIN, PHL and SEA and possibly GB and maybe even ATL. I still see the NFC with LA and NO at the top. And most of those teams have 1st rounders with GB having 2.

And this is how I see it now; however, I am pretty certain that will change as it has every season.

 

[Diehardblues]

The question to me is how badly does the team need an immediate impact player like Martin or Vander Esch. If one feels the team is good enough with a player at 58 that may develop into something in 2 or 3 years then stand pat but if you feel that can immediately upgrade the D, either the front or back end, to true contender status, then that might be worth considering.

There are DT's in this draft that are better than the ones in the NFL now except for a small hand few. It would take more than just the 1st in 2020, most likely, to move up to get a blue chipper but improving the middle of the DL with Lawrence and Quinn on the wings so there are more options to bring the pressure.

The tricky part is that it needs to be a position that a rook can move into and be effective and DT is one of those, FS? Probably some growing pains. There are two blue chip TE's that will go in the 1st but even as good as they are, still need developmental time.

If the player cannot be a 2019 impact player than I wouldn't give up the 2020 1st. There's no way of telling but there wouldn't be in 2020 either. To me, it's all about moving the window forward. I think we're a top 6 NFC team but the right player could put us in top 2 or 3.

Curious what player in the draft you think elevates us from 6th to 2nd or 3rd in NFC?

 

[CouchCoach]

While it's gonna be mentally tough to foot tap thru day one of the draft, ( I've took a pass a time or two at the horse track betting counters,to change up my luck,& it's not like we've not gotten great value out of this #1 pick already, ya know, Coach?) it's something, I think,that is going to be necessary to do,having an eye on the 2020 draft, as to be honest, we don't really know just where we'll be structurally deficient at by then,,,er,,,other than 1 year acquisition's likely rolling on.

Can't argue that, Melon. And you hit on part of that. Not having a horse in these 32 on opening day has taken some of the shine off the draft for me. I can't just be jazzed over the possibility of NY, PHL and WAS picking crippled or criminal players. I gots to have sumthin to make me antsy.

 

[CouchCoach]

Curious what player in the draft you think elevates us from 6th to 2nd or 3rd in NFC?

Oliver, Wilkins or Lawrence would be worth moving up for but Oliver would for sure take the 1st from 2020 and then some.

That's kind of a trick question since we don't know what the other teams above us will do. But I am skeptical about the Cowboys getting 2019 impact at 58 and am not as optimistic as some are where they stand now.

And here's the kicker, I don't trust them. They overvalue players, these people went into last season with group of WR's thinking that was just fine. I trust them much better the higher they pick. However, Booger doesn't find DT's sexy to pick so if they did trade up, I am not sure what they'd do. He might not even pull the trigger on the DL with the 58 pick.

 

[Rockport]

That's the bugaboo, Rocky. I see this team as a top 4-6 NFC team but not quite at that LA, NO or CHI level yet. I see them in that 2nd group with MIN, PHL and SEA and possibly GB and maybe even ATL. I still see the NFC with LA and NO at the top. And most of those teams have 1st rounders with GB having 2.

And this is how I see it now; however, I am pretty certain that will change as it has every season.

Well you see what you see, and I see what I see. A team with enough talent to compete for the whole enchilada.

 

[blueblood70]

I say NO BUT move up yes maybe from 58 to higher in that second to grab someone you wanted that fell farther then expected..wont be as expensive to go from 58 to maybe 38 etc

Not giving up next years first..

 

[Nightman]

So, by your calculations, any trade that involves a first and a subsequent pick will end up like the Mo Clairborne situation. All things are exactly the same from one instance to the next in the NFL.

Just like to point out this is a fallacy. But one that is trotted out here like clockwork.

Not advocating one side or the other. Just the only consistent aspect to life, and football is life, is change.

No .... in general..... trading two players for one in the early draft is a mistake

Their actual values are a lot closer than some chart says

Two for ones are a bad idea..... Mo is just one example

 

[Diehardblues]

Oliver, Wilkins or Lawrence would be worth moving up for but Oliver would for sure take the 1st from 2020 and then some.

That's kind of a trick question since we don't know what the other teams above us will do. But I am skeptical about the Cowboys getting 2019 impact at 58 and am not as optimistic as some are where they stand now.

And here's the kicker, I don't trust them. They overvalue players, these people went into last season with group of WR's thinking that was just fine. I trust them much better the higher they pick. However, Booger doesn't find DT's sexy to pick so if they did trade up, I am not sure what they'd do. He might not even pull the trigger on the DL with the 58 pick.

I think he’s more likely to use 58th on Safety or trade up in 2nd round using lower picks.

But I don’t see anyone in 1st round that propels us to Super Bowl.

 

[Diehardblues]

Well you see what you see, and I see what I see. A team with enough talent to compete for the whole enchilada.

If you think we had enough last year to contend for SB then you’d probably think we do this year as well.

 

[Diehardblues]

Can't argue that, Melon. And you hit on part of that. Not having a horse in these 32 on opening day has taken some of the shine off the draft for me. I can't just be jazzed over the possibility of NY, PHL and WAS picking crippled or criminal players. I gots to have sumthin to make me antsy.

Yep

And that’s unfortunate. Everyone else has a better opportunity to upgrade in draft than we do. That’s our price for saving last season.

 

[Diehardblues]

That's the bugaboo, Rocky. I see this team as a top 4-6 NFC team but not quite at that LA, NO or CHI level yet. I see them in that 2nd group with MIN, PHL and SEA and possibly GB and maybe even ATL. I still see the NFC with LA and NO at the top. And most of those teams have 1st rounders with GB having 2.

And this is how I see it now; however, I am pretty certain that will change as it has every season.

Yea , those are still top 2. Prob place Phil 3rd with Wentz returning. If he goes down again they’re screwed this year.

Bears prob better cause of defense but we’re right in there somewhere amongst them and Vikings, Seattle. Interesting we have all 5 NFC playoff teams on schedule this year. Prob not a good thing.