Romo should follow Nowitzki's lead (great article)

[The30YardSlant]

*Yawn* A defensive stalwart led his team to a title last year. Were you surprised? Because it happened the year before, too. And the year before that. And the year before that.

It's happened every... single... year... since at least the late '80s.

And it will continue to happen every single year...

Unless good ol' Dirk can break the streak!!! Keep those fingers crossed, guys!!!He's still average defensively, and history SCREAMS AT US that "average D" is NOT enough from your #1 player in order to win a title.

Kevin Garnett wasnt Boston's "#1". He was a key cog that pulled it all together, but Paul Pierce is the leading man.

The year before that, the Spurs beat the Cavs 4-0 and didnt need to do anything especially well to do so because they were so vastly superior to Cleveland.

The year before that, Miami won with a group of average defenders (Wade, Shaq) and terrible defenders (Walker, Williams). The only good defenders on that team were Haslem, Mourning and Payton, only one of which played significant minutes throughout the series.

Shaq was the #1 on the 3-peat Laker teams. He isnt a great defender.

I'm doubting that you watch much NBA basketball.

 

[Nav22]

Lebron tonight is a good example. He played an AWESOME game, dropping 49

However, no one else on his team made more than 6 field goals and Cleveland's bench had a total of 5 points tonight...which is why Cleveland lost.

Dirk shot 38.7% from the field in games 3-6 of the Finals.

He shot 2-13 for 8 points in the game 6 elimination in Golden State.

And you have the nerve to compare his playoff failures to LeBron's game tonight, when LeBron scored 49 on 20-30 shooting (66.7%) to go along with 8 boards and 6 assists.

The Dirk homers never cease to amaze me.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Dirk shot 38.7% from the field in games 3-6 of the Finals.

He shot 2-13 for 8 points in the game 6 elimination in Golden State.

And you have the nerve to compare his playoff failures to LeBron's game tonight, when LeBron scored 49 on 20-30 shooting (66.7%) to go along with 8 boards and 6 assists.

The Dirk homers never cease to amaze me.

Dirk is one of only 5 players IN HISTORY to average 25 and 10 for a career in the postseason. He was carrying Dallas in 2003 against SA in the WCF before getting hurt in game 3. He single-handidly carried Dallas past Phoenix in 2006, the series after he put up one the greatest clutch performances ever in game 7 against SA.

He averaged nearly 35 a game against Denver. He wasnt the reason Dallas lost. He was the only reason they did get swept by a 20 PPG average.

Again, you arent giving anyone any reason to think you watch much NBA basketball. You sound like a guy who gets his NBA info from the sports section.

 

[ZB9]

Dirk shot 38.7% from the field in games 3-6 of the Finals.

Like I said earlier, it would be BS for anyone who watched that series to hold the one sided WWE crap in that series against Dirk. You clearly didnt watch it. From game 3 on, one side was allowed to play physical and pretty much mug people...while the other side was not able to even look at Dwhistle without a foul. Phil Jackson said the same thing in an interview, and he would obviously know.

the microcosm of that series was Dirk hitting the go ahead shot over Shaq and Haslem with 9 seconds left in game 5...only to see an out of control DWhistle get bailed out from Bennett Salvatore with a phantom foul for the win with 1.8 seconds left, and Wade is "clutch" LMAO....but I digress

He shot 2-13 for 8 points in the game 6 elimination in Golden State.

If you want to bring up elimination games...here are Dirk's averages in 16 career playoff elimination games

Points per game: 30.25
Rebounds: 12.5
Assists: 2.4
Blocks: 1.3
Steals: 1.1
FG%: 49.4%
3pt%: 43.6%
FTM: 8.9
FTA: 9.9
FT%: 89.3

Nowitzki is also 4-0 in game sevens thus far in his career

dont let the facts get in the way of your agendas though.

And you have the nerve to compare his playoff failures to LeBron's game tonight, when LeBron scored 49 on 20-30 shooting (66.7%) to go along with 8 boards and 6 assists.

The Dirk homers never cease to amaze me.

you need some reading comprehension. I wasnt comparing Lebron's game tonight to any specific Dirk game...but the fact that you would cherry pick a rare bad game to choose to compare to Lebron's game tonight says everything about your agenda. btw, Lebron has had bad playoff games as well. You cant even compare the two players though. Dirk is a power forward, while Lebron is a wing ball handler.

anyway, my point was clearly that players need help when you get this deep into the playoffs, even Lebron. There is a reason why there has never been a player win an NBA championship in the modern era without another great player on his roster. If Lebron does it this year, he will be the first.

 

[Nav22]

Kevin Garnett wasnt Boston's "#1". He was a key cog that pulled it all together, but Paul Pierce is the leading man.

You're high if you consider Paul Pierce to be a better player than Kevin Garnett. I bet you also think Tony Parker is the Spurs' "leading man" because he won Finals MVP in their most recent championship.

KG's arrival and the team's newfound defensive system (centered around KG dominating the paint like he's done his entire career) was the biggest reason for the Celtics' turnaround.

The year before that, the Spurs beat the Cavs 4-0 and didnt need to do anything especially well to do so because they were so vastly superior to Cleveland.

Wow...

"Didn't need to do anything especially well"...

"because they were so vastly superior"...

And I'm the one who doesn't watch NBA basketball. Unreal.

Their D was incredible in the Finals, as it had been all season. LeBron shot 32-90 in the series (35.6%) and the Cavs were swept, only being able to score 80.5 points/game in the series.

I guess that doesn't count as "doing anything especially well" in the eyes of an NBA guru like yourself, though.

No wonder you're a Dirk apologist. Defense doesn't matter to you.

D-Wade: Average defender

Better defender for a guard than Dirk is for a power forward, that's for damn sure.

Shaq: Average defender (Though his size and ability to throw his weight around hides this pretty well)

Shaq was very effective defensively, yes, because of his size and strength. He was a mediocre defender early in his career, back when Hakeem was tearing him a new one in the Finals.

Never again did an opposing center get the best of him (in his prime) like Hakeem did. His D improved quite a bit by the time he was winning titles in LA.

Paul Pierce: Average defender (Really could be called a bad defender until Rivers got there)

True. And I think Dirk could be fantastic in a Paul Pierce-like role. Pierce was never going to win a title as the best Celtic player... he needed major help, similar to Dirk.

Hell, Lebron James is a pretty average defender, but there isnt a soul alive willing to bet he never wins a title

LeBron has developed into a very good defensive player, especially this season. He was deservedly named to the All-Defensive 1st team.

Let me know when Dirk makes the cut.

 

[Nav22]

dont let the facts get in the way of your agendas though.

If you're being honest with yourself, you'd know that there was only 2 seasons in which the Mavericks had a GREAT chance to win the NBA title.

2005-06 and 2006-07.

Before that, the Mavericks were not going to get past the Lakers or the Spurs. They just weren't good enough.

In the 2 years in which the championship window was WIDE FREAKIN' OPEN, Dirk choked both times. In the Finals and then in the 1st round.

(And I'll give credit where it's due here... Dirk was huge in finally moving the Mavs past the Spurs in '06)

It speaks volumes that you won't put ANY of the Finals loss on the actual team that lost the series. Crying about the officiating is loser talk. Even if there were some questionable calls, the Mavs had ample opportunity to win the series.

Don't choke away Game 3 like they did, and the series is theirs.

Are you this petty after a Cowboys loss, too? I thought we as a fanbase were collectively better than that.

Karl Malone had many memorable playoff wins as well. I'm sure if you looked at his playoff stats, you'd also be impressed. Ditto Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Allen Iverson, Dominique Wilkins, etc.

But in the end, it wasn't enough for these guys. Great vs. very good.

The "great" won titles, the "very good" got close and have fans boasting about their playoff statistics.

I think deep down even you realize that Dirk is not on the level of a LeBron, Kobe, or Tim Duncan. And the fact that he's not as good as those guys is extremely important... because it's the great ones who will forever stand in the way of the very good ones, like Dirk.

If Dirk teams up with a monster (like Pau Gasol, Tony Parker, Paul Pierce, and Mo Williams have done), he'll get several more championship opportunities as a #2. There's absolutely no shame in that.

 

[ZB9]

If you're being honest with yourself, you'd know that there was only 2 seasons in which the Mavericks had a GREAT chance to win the NBA title.

2005-06 and 2006-07.

Before that, the Mavericks were not going to get past the Lakers or the Spurs. They just weren't good enough.

In the 2 years in which the championship window was WIDE FREAKIN' OPEN, Dirk choked both times. In the Finals and then in the 1st round.

(And I'll give credit where it's due here... Dirk was huge in finally moving the Mavs past the Spurs in '06)

It speaks volumes that you won't put ANY of the Finals loss on the actual team that lost the series. Crying about the officiating is loser talk. Even if there were some questionable calls, the Mavs had ample opportunity to win the series.

Don't choke away Game 3 like they did, and the series is theirs.

Are you this petty after a Cowboys loss, too? I thought we as a fanbase were collectively better than that.

saying Dallas choked in that series would be like saying the Seahawks choked against the Steelers a few superbowls ago, or saying the Kings "choked" against the Lakers in game 6 of the 2001 NBA finals.

no, it is actually rare for me to complain about officiating, but the '06 finals was some of the shadiest BS I have EVER seen in pro sports. The fact that Im a mavs fan just means that I care about that screw job, so I am more adamant about it.

Karl Malone had many memorable playoff wins as well. I'm sure if you looked at his playoff stats, you'd also be impressed. Ditto Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Allen Iverson, Dominique Wilkins, etc.

But in the end, it wasn't enough for these guys. Great vs. very good.

The "great" won titles, the "very good" got close and have fans boasting about their playoff statistics.

I guess we just have different definitions of "great". All of those guys you mentioned are HOF players, and all of them were "great" imo...except maybe 'Nique who was probably "very good" instead of "great" imo

Elgin Baylor was a "great" player, and he didnt win a title.

I think deep down even you realize that Dirk is not on the level of a LeBron, Kobe, or Tim Duncan. And the fact that he's not as good as those guys is extremely important... because it's the great ones who will forever stand in the way of the very good ones, like Dirk.

as far as Tim Duncan "getting in the way", Dirk has given Duncan and the Spurs more trouble than probably any other player in the league has. The Mavs and the Lakers are the only two teams to defeat Tim Duncan in the playoffs

but I dont think Dirk has been as good as any of those three players, and I didnt say that he was...however, Nowitzki has been a top 10 player in the league for much of his career, and he was a top 10 player this season imo. You seem to hold Dirk to a different standard than other current players in the league for some reason.

Very few players have won championships. Like I said earlier, only 7 teams have won the NBA championship in the past 25 years. You dont have to win a championship to be considered "great" imo.

and again, Dirk has already shown that he "can" lead his team to a championship. The only thing that prevented it was the WWE crap in the finals

If Dirk teams up with a monster (like Pau Gasol, Tony Parker, Paul Pierce, and Mo Williams have done), he'll get several more championship opportunities as a #2. There's absolutely no shame in that.

lol comon man. I can see the Paul Pierce comparison, but Mo Williams? Mo is a good player, but he's not in Dirk's league. They play different positions anyway. It's comments like that one that make me think you dont watch the games

I think we actually agree on the bottom line though LOL, that the Mavs need to add another great player to contend for a championship. I think we disagree on whether Dirk is a "batman" or a "robin"....but either way, it doesnt really matter. Either way, if the Mavs added another batman or a robin in a Pau Gasol type of trade, it would give them a shot to contend imo, whether Dirk is a batman or whether he is a robin.

 

[DFWJC]

If you want to bring up elimination games...here are Dirk's averages in 16 career playoff elimination games

Points per game: 30.25
Rebounds: 12.5
Assists: 2.4
Blocks: 1.3
Steals: 1.1
FG%: 49.4%
3pt%: 43.6%
FTM: 8.9
FTA: 9.9
FT%: 89.3

Nowitzki is also 4-0 in game sevens thus far in his career

dont let the facts get in the way of your agendas though.

.

:clap2: :cheers: :toast:

That friggin seals it. How can anyone argue with that. Nice research. Those stats are just plain sick....and in the biggest games..period.


And I'm not even one who puts Dirk up there with the extreme elite...even though he is HOFer.
But the whole argument is whether or not he can be the best player on a title team and also wheter or not he chokes more often than not in big games.
The answers are clear
1) YES, for SURE he can be the best player on a title team
2) NO, for SURE he does not choke in big games more than he comes up big

 

[Nav22]

saying Dallas choked in that series would be like saying the Seahawks choked against the Steelers a few superbowls ago, or saying the Kings "choked" against the Lakers in game 6 of the 2001 NBA finals.

The Mavs choked in Game 3. And in Game 6, at home. Dirk shot the ball poorly every game after Game 2. If you don't want to lay any blame on Dirk or the team for that, so be it.

The Kings may not have choked in Game 6, but they sure as hell choked away Game 4 in LA and Game 7 at home. So they get no sympathy from me.

I guess we just have different definitions of "great". All of those guys you mentioned are HOF players, and all of them were "great" imo

I have no doubt that Dirk will be in the HOF someday. The definition of "great" isn't too important... if you wanted to call Dirk "great" and guys like MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan were to be called "elite", I could make the same point.

"Elite vs. great."

however, Nowitzki has been a top 10 player in the league for much of his career, and he was a top 10 player this season imo. You seem to hold Dirk to a different standard than other current players in the league for some reason.

I'm holding Dirk to the standard of the very best, because I assume Mavs fans won't be happy with anything less than Championships. I agree that he's been top 10 for many years, but that's not enough. You need to be a defender, and Dirk isn't that.

as far as Tim Duncan "getting in the way", Dirk has given Duncan and the Spurs more trouble than probably any other player in the league has.

But more often than not, Duncan has gotten the best of Dirk. Hence the trophies.

Very few players have won championships. Like I said earlier, only 7 teams have won the NBA championship in the past 25 years. You dont have to win a championship to be considered "great" imo.

The fact that only 7 teams have won titles in the last 25 years supports my argument that it will take a better #1 than Dirk for the Mavs to do it.

Be honest: would you be satisfied with a HOF career from Nowitzki even if he never leads the Mavs to a title? You sound like you would be. Maybe that's why there's a disconnect between us.

I can see the Paul Pierce comparison, but Mo Williams? Mo is a good player, but he's not in Dirk's league. They play different positions anyway.

I'm not saying Mo is on Dirk's level. If Dirk went to Cleveland to team up with LeBron, the Cavs would coast to a title. Cleveland might win it this year regardless, even with a less-than-stellar supporting cast.

Being a fan of the Bucks, I'm very familiar with Mo's game. He's good, but far from great.

Either way, if the Mavs added another batman or a robin in a Pau Gasol type of trade, it would give them a shot to contend imo, whether Dirk is a batman or whether he is a robin.

It's possible. I would think they'd need someone even better than a Gasol to REALLY have a shot, since apparently Kidd, Howard, and Terry isn't enough of a cast for Dirk.

 

[MC KAos]

the mavs need a batman, because dirk will never be more than a robin, get real mavs fans