Romo should follow Nowitzki's lead (great article)

[juck]

200:laugh2:

 

[khiladi]

Guys like Michael Jordan, besides stepping up in the play-offs, raise the level of play of those around them. Lebron James makes his team better and his play isn't confined to individual stats.

 

[khiladi]

BTW, briefly reading through the discussions, I'd like to say:Chauncey Billups is a better basketball player than Dirk....

 

[Nav22]

Winning a title isn't about one guy. Sorry if you think it is. It's about everything falling together perfectly for one team... that is the great players, and the role players, and the team defense all play good enough to win it. If your criteria for being a great player is carrying a team to a title by one's self, then no one fits the bill.

You still missed.

Is it a coincidence that the best player of the '90s (Mike) won 6 titles? Is it a coincidence that the 2 best players today (Kobe and LeBron) are on the 2 best teams?

Dirk has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that he's a step behind the likes of Kobe, LeBron, and D-Wade. It's no surprise that they're winning titles (or are on their way) and Dirk isn't.

If the Mavs were to win the title next year (which they won't), Dirk would be in competition with Chauncey Billups in 2004... as the worst #1 player on a championship team since sometime before 1990.

Jordan
Olajuwon
Duncan
O'Neal/Bryant
Wade
Garnett

All better players than Dirk Nowitzki.

I'm not suggesting that these guys "won it by themselves."

Look closely at that list. History clearly suggests that if you want an NBA championship, you'd better have a stellar defense.

And in EVERY season since at least 1988, the #1 player on the championship team was a stellar individual defender.

This means that if the Mavericks won the championship next year, Dirk would be the very worst defender to be the #1 guy on a championship team since I don't know when.

Deny that all you want. Spin it until you're blue in the face. It's truth and you know it.

Of course it's a team game. Of course even the greatest of the great didn't do it all by themselves.

But history tells us that you need to be... well, better than Dirk... to lead a team to a title.

Great vs. very good. Clyde Drexler feels Dirk's pain.

 

[DFWJC]

Jordan
Olajuwon
Duncan
O'Neal/Bryant
Wade
Garnett

.

Jordan is incomparable, but even he never won it until Pippen came aboard. Pippen was listed as a top 50 all-time player. But nobody is going to compare Dirk to Jordan....nor should they have to.

Olajuwan would have fallen in line with Barkley, Malone, and Drexler if Jordan had not temporarily retired...and maybe all of those guys would have rings if he had been retired the years they went to the finals.

Duncan was great, but had Parker and Ginobli and Robinson. Dirk was on the team that beat them at their best the year Dallas went to the Finals.

O'Neal and Bryant are both Hall of Famers and had each other. Dirk would win titles with either of them on his team when they were in their prime.

Wade had O'Neal and the refs That title was a joke and a fluke, but hats off to them.

Garnett was not even the MVP of his title team--who had Pierce and Ray Allen. he never wins a title with Dirk's teammates. I do not think Garnett is better than Dirk....but that is splitting hairs.


You are right, even though Dirk's "D" has now risen to average (from "Irk") he is a much worse defender than any of those listed.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Jordan
Olajuwon
Duncan
O'Neal/Bryant
Wade
Garnett

All better players than Dirk Nowitzki.

I shouldn't get into this again, but Dirk is exactly like Garnett was in Minnesota. Did you have KG in this class a few years ago when he had to be the entire team and couldn't win a title?

The other guys outside Wade I'll agree with you about -- they are truly in the top ten who ever lived.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I shouldn't get into this again, but Dirk is exactly like Garnett was in Minnesota. Did you have KG in this class a few years ago when he had to be the entire team and couldn't win a title?

The other guys outside Wade I'll agree with you about -- they are truly in the top ten who ever lived.

Wade is a bigger drama queen than Kobe ever was. He fakes way to many sicknesses or injuries, only to come back and play at full strength 5 minutes later.

It's pathetic.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Wade is a bigger drama queen than Kobe ever was. He fakes way to many sicknesses or injuries, only to come back and play at full strength 5 minutes later.

It's pathetic.

No doubt. Needing a wheelchair because you hurt your shoulder? What a joke.

It's a big reason I don't care nearly as much about the NBA as I used to. That and the WWE-like officiating.

 

[YosemiteSam]

No doubt. Needing a wheelchair because you hurt your shoulder? What a joke.

It's a big reason I don't care nearly as much about the NBA as I used to. That and the WWE-like officiating.

I'm with ya on that. I met my wife at a Mavericks game and used to hangout on a Mavs board like CZ, but that is in the distant past. My wife still loves it, but I don't really pay attention anymore.

I'm anti Lakers and anti Kings. (hate the Kings more) But when the refs willfully screwed the Kings out of the WCF to allow Kobe, Shaq and the Lakers go to tthe NBA finals. That was the beginning of the end for me. It was so stupid blatant. It made me sick.

 

[Temo]

BTW, briefly reading through the discussions, I'd like to say:Chauncey Billups is a better basketball player than Dirk....

No. (Though it's close)

 

[khiladi]

Wade is 'soft'... Have you seen the way the guy plays? His numbers when it comes to blocks for a guard are ridiculous, meaning the guy plays above ground all the time. His whole style is conducive to injuries. The guy is fear-less going to the whole. Also, pain varies from person to person. People get rolled out of stadiums all the time, for various injuries.

 

[khiladi]

No. (Though it's close)

Billups already has Denver in the finals of the Western conference. While people put it on Carmelo, it is Billups that brought the edge to Denver and made them dominant. They've had Carmello for years and were never this strong. Detroit couldn't get pass the first round of the play-offs without Billups and didn't even put up a fight. Even with the age factor, they still showed a significant decline. Billups plays better defense and has two championships and is clutch. Billups is one of the most-underrated players in the game.

 

[khiladi]

Ray Allen pretty much stunk the whole play-offs last year, and it was actually Pierce that carried the Celtics through the play-offs. The guy played ridiculous and led his team to victory. The guy was hitting clutch shot after clutch shot. I wouldn't say Ray Allen helped Boston with the championship.

 

[khiladi]

If Dirk had nobody in Dallas, then how come they always had among the best regular season records. The guy played with Steve Nash, one of the best point guards to play the game in the last ten years. Steve Nash is right up there with Ray Allen as a player, probably better. Michael Finley was a pretty good baller as well. They had Stackhouse and have plenty of scorers. Nowitzki has played with Antoine Walker and Antwan Jamison, when he had Steve Nash. The fact is, they haven't won because they suck at playing defense. You can win games in the regular season with offense, but when your defense sucks, you lose in the play-offs. Dirk's strengths are definitely not defense and he can get abused by plenty of players in the NBA.

 

[juck]

If Dirk had nobody in Dallas, then how come they always had among the best regular season records. The guy played with Steve Nash, one of the best point guards to play the game in the last ten years. Steve Nash is right up there with Ray Allen as a player, probably better. Michael Finley was a pretty good baller as well. They had Stackhouse and have plenty of scorers. Nowitzki has played with Antoine Walker and Antwan Jamison, when he had Steve Nash. The fact is, they haven't won because they suck at playing defense. You can win games in the regular season with offense, but when your defense sucks, you lose in the play-offs. Dirk's strengths are definitely not defense and he can get abused by plenty of players in the NBA.

I think Chandler Kaman or another Center is coming and a 2guard.I like the idea of Shaq but his age,money and he lacks defense as well.But he can score still well.

 

[DFWJC]

Billups already has Denver in the finals of the Western conference. While people put it on Carmelo, it is Billups that brought the edge to Denver and made them dominant. They've had Carmello for years and were never this strong. Detroit couldn't get pass the first round of the play-offs without Billups and didn't even put up a fight. Even with the age factor, they still showed a significant decline. Billups plays better defense and has two championships and is clutch. Billups is one of the most-underrated players in the game.

Hard not to love Billups.

Exchange him for Kidd and have a healthy Howard and the Mavs would certainly be playing the Lakers right now. Just a healthy Howard alone may have gotten them there, but Billups would easily seal the deal.

 

[casmith07]

Billups already has Denver in the finals of the Western conference. While people put it on Carmelo, it is Billups that brought the edge to Denver and made them dominant. They've had Carmello for years and were never this strong. Detroit couldn't get pass the first round of the play-offs without Billups and didn't even put up a fight. Even with the age factor, they still showed a significant decline. Billups plays better defense and has two championships and is clutch. Billups is one of the most-underrated players in the game.

I thought Billups had one championship

 

[casmith07]

I shouldn't get into this again, but Dirk is exactly like Garnett was in Minnesota. Did you have KG in this class a few years ago when he had to be the entire team and couldn't win a title?

The other guys outside Wade I'll agree with you about -- they are truly in the top ten who ever lived.

KG isn't soft.

 

[DFWJC]

If Dirk had nobody in Dallas, then how come they always had among the best regular season records. The guy played with Steve Nash, one of the best point guards to play the game in the last ten years. Steve Nash is right up there with Ray Allen as a player, probably better. Michael Finley was a pretty good baller as well. They had Stackhouse and have plenty of scorers. Nowitzki has played with Antoine Walker and Antwan Jamison, when he had Steve Nash. The fact is, they haven't won because they suck at playing defense. You can win games in the regular season with offense, but when your defense sucks, you lose in the play-offs. Dirk's strengths are definitely not defense and he can get abused by plenty of players in the NBA.

I agree, Dirk has had plenty of good players with him over the years. If they had Nash when they played Miami, they would have a title already.

In his early years, Dirk was not what he is now. Antoine Walker does no t belong in that group you mentioned, but some of guys (in their prime) were very good. Obviously Stack was WAY past his prime when he came here. Finley has been on the decline for many years too but there was someoverlap ealry in Dirk's career.

Anyway. I agree that no one can accuse Cuban of not trying to to the best players he can on that team. The came VERY close to winning it all 3 years ago, but just didn't close the deal.

 

[ZB9]

I shouldn't get into this again, but Dirk is exactly like Garnett was in Minnesota. Did you have KG in this class a few years ago when he had to be the entire team and couldn't win a title?

The other guys outside Wade I'll agree with you about -- they are truly in the top ten who ever lived.

I wouldnt waste your time debating further with Nav22.

the guy is obviously clueless about basketball with an agenda, and that is a bad combination