Romo was sharp today

[DanteEXT]

They needed Brady to do what he did during the regular season and he didn't produce. If you're a team that does most of your living off your QB's arm you're going to have a tough time winning if they don't produce. Brady didn't play up to the level in the 2 SB losses to the Giants that he did during the regular season those years. His passer rating was 117.2 during the regular season in 07 but only 82.5 in the SB. He tossed 50 TD's during the regular season but only 1 TD in the SB. Sure the Giants D stepped up but Brady was clearly off his game. In the 2011 SB again Brady didn't play to the level he played during the regular season.

Eli on the other hand played better during both the 07 and 2011 postseason than he did during the regular season. Eli had 27 turnovers in 07 that was one more turnover than Mark Sanchez had last season for the Jets. Eli upped his game when the games mattered most and it led to 2 SB wins and 2 SB MVP awards.

Giants defense PPG 2007:
Regular season: 21.9
Postseason: 16.3
Difference of -5.6

Giants Offense PPG 2007:
Regular season: 23.3
Postseason: 21.3
Difference of -2.0

Average margin of victory in postseason: 5

Giants defense PPG 2011:
Regular season: 25
Postseason: 14
Difference of -11

Giants Offense PPG 2011:
Regular season: 24.6
Postseason: 25.5
Difference of +0.9

Average margin of victory in the postseason: 11.5

*****************************************************************

Do you honestly think "Eli upped his game when the games mattered most"? Or really deserved those MVPs? Personally, I think the defense was the one that upped their game when it "mattered most". To me it looks like Eli guided the Giants O to pretty much what they had done the whole season.

 

[DanteEXT]

In 2004 they were ranked 24th in what categories?
In '03 they were ranked 7th in what categories?
In '04 they were ranked 9th in what categories?

Just Defense? Scoring defense? Run defense? Pass defense? What?

I'm not trying to be an ***., but c'mon. You're trying to make a strong point against the people you are arguing against- let's see some strong arguments without generalisations.

KJJ thinks total defense is the best way to rank defenses.

Myself, I can care less if the D gives up 1000 yards a game as long as they keep the other team from scoring.

 

[Corso]

KJJ thinks total defense is the best way to rank defenses.

Myself, I can care less if the D gives up 1000 yards a game as long as they keep the other team from scoring.

I tend to agree with you since scoring determines who wins and who loses.

At least, I think...

 

[KJJ]

Giants defense PPG 2007:
Regular season: 21.9
Postseason: 16.3
Difference of -5.6

Giants Offense PPG 2007:
Regular season: 23.3
Postseason: 21.3
Difference of -2.0

Average margin of victory in postseason: 5

Giants defense PPG 2011:
Regular season: 25
Postseason: 14
Difference of -11

Giants Offense PPG 2011:
Regular season: 24.6
Postseason: 25.5
Difference of +0.9

Average margin of victory in the postseason: 11.5

*****************************************************************

Do you honestly think "Eli upped his game when the games mattered most"? Or really deserved those MVPs? Personally, I think the defense was the one that upped their game when it "mattered most". To me it looks like Eli guided the Giants O to pretty much what they had done the whole season.

Eli clearly upped his game and deserved those MVP's. Only on this board will anyone question it. Both SB's came down to last ditch drives and Eli was terrific. Stop being a Cowboy FAN for one minute and be objective. I mentioned he turned the ball over 27 times during the regular season in 07 and only turned it over once in the postseason that included 3 playoff games and the SB. His passer rating was 22 points higher during the postseason compared to the regular season how is that not upping his game? It was the same thing in 2011 he had 24 turnovers during the regular season and only one during the postseason. Again his passer rating was higher during the postseason than it was during the regular season. That's called upping your game! Eli played outstanding football during the 2011 postseason.

He put up over 1200 yards and 9 TD's in 4 games and his passer rating was 103.3. He was productive and didn't make mistakes. When both SB's were on his shoulders with time running down he was incredibly poised and was clutch in the face of all kinds of pressure. Regardless of the Giants defense that team doesn't win either SB had Eli been the turnover machine he was during the regular season. There's a reason the Giants only won 10 games in 07 and 9 games in 2011. When Eli was playing poorly the Giants defense didn't look very good having to defend his turnovers. Turnovers and several 3 and outs can put your defense in a bind.

 

[KJJ]

KJJ thinks total defense is the best way to rank defenses.

No KJJ doesn't think that so give it up! You have a FAN who's acting like one of the greatest QB's in NFL history was carried to his 3 SB wins by his defense. LOL Not once has he given Brady an ounce of credit he just keeps pointing to NE's defense.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I tend to agree with you since scoring determines who wins and who loses.

At least, I think...

Yes, the highest scoring team always wins.

 

[Rockport]

No KJJ doesn't think that so give it up! You have a FAN who's acting like one of the greatest QB's in NFL history was carried to his 3 SB wins by his defense. LOL Not once has he given Brady an ounce of credit he just keeps pointing to NE's defense.

That's because defense plays a big part of who wins/loses a Superbowl just as the QB plays a big role. Special teams plays a big role. Coaching plays a big role. It's a TEAM sport.

 

[Corso]

Yes, the highest scoring team always wins.

Thank you, that's what I thought.

 

[KJJ]

That's because defense plays a big part of who wins/loses a Superbowl just as the QB plays a big role. Special teams plays a big role. Coaching plays a big role. It's a TEAM sport.

It's an offensive league the NFL wants scoring and games to go down to the wire. Defenses are struggling stopping offenses especially with all the player safety rules. The rules are benefitting offenses and handicapping defenses. Defenses are bending every week having to defend 4000 yard passers and duel threat QB's who can burn you through the air and on the ground. What wins games on defense is creating turnovers. The 2011 Packers went 15-1 with the 32nd ranked defense but they got turnovers and Rodgers only committed 6 turnovers while throwing 46 TD's.

 

[DanteEXT]

No KJJ doesn't think that so give it up! You have a FAN who's acting like one of the greatest QB's in NFL history was carried to his 3 SB wins by his defense. LOL Not once has he given Brady an ounce of credit he just keeps pointing to NE's defense.

NE's defense was ranked 24th in 2001 when Brady won his first SB. Their defense was ranked 7th in 2003 when Brady won his 2nd SB and it was ranked 9th in 2004 when Brady won his 3rd and last SB.

Were you or were you not using total defense when you posted those rankings?

 

[DanteEXT]

Eli clearly upped his game and deserved those MVP's. Only on this board will anyone question it. Both SB's came down to last ditch drives and Eli was terrific. Stop being a Cowboy FAN for one minute and be objective. I mentioned he turned the ball over 27 times during the regular season in 07 and only turned it over once in the postseason that included 3 playoff games and the SB. His passer rating was 22 points higher during the postseason compared to the regular season how is that not upping his game? It was the same thing in 2011 he had 24 turnovers during the regular season and only one during the postseason. Again his passer rating was higher during the postseason than it was during the regular season. That's called upping your game! Eli played outstanding football during the 2011 postseason.

He put up over 1200 yards and 9 TD's in 4 games and his passer rating was 103.3. He was productive and didn't make mistakes. When both SB's were on his shoulders with time running down he was incredibly poised and was clutch in the face of all kinds of pressure. Regardless of the Giants defense that team doesn't win either SB had Eli been the turnover machine he was during the regular season. There's a reason the Giants only won 10 games in 07 and 9 games in 2011. When Eli was playing poorly the Giants defense didn't look very good having to defend his turnovers. Turnovers and several 3 and outs can put your defense in a bind.

I am being objective. I'm not saying Eli played horribly. He played well. I just think the defense was the key to their winning. If the opposing teams put up the same points as the regular season on the Giants they never make it to the SB.

 

[KJJ]

Were you or were you not using total defense when you posted those rankings?

Yes that was total defensive rankings and the only reason I listed them was because Toruk claimed NE had top 5 defenses the years they won the SB.

 

[KJJ]

I am being objective. I'm not saying Eli played horribly. He played well. I just think the defense was the key to their winning. If the opposing teams put up the same points as the regular season on the Giants they never make it to the SB.

No question their defense played a part but their defense didn't prevent NE from having the lead in the final minutes of both SB's. Both games came down to the Giants offense and Eli having to come from behind to pull those games out. A lot of QB's fold in that situation but Eli pulled off 2 Joe Montana moments in 07 and 2011. The Giants didn't have real good teams those years. The Cowboys owned them during the 07 regular season putting up 76 points on their defense. Romo torched them for 8 TD's during the regular season and never had a passer rating lower than 123.1. The Giants started the 07 season by giving up 45 points to the Cowboys and 35 the following week to GB. They gave up 41 points to Minn in week 12 and 38 to NE in week 17. They were the lowest seeded team in the playoffs and looked nothing like a championship team heading into the playoffs.

They were underdogs every week but stepped up and although Eli wasn't putting up 300 yard games he played very efficiently and avoided the mistakes he was making consistently during the regular season. In 2011 the Giants were as up and down a team as the Cowboys for most of that season. They were 7-7 at one point and had the Cowboys held on to a 12 point lead in the 4th quarter the Giants wouldn't have made the playoffs. They ended up being the ONLY 9-7 team to ever win a SB. There wasn't anything special about either Giants team that won the SB but they didn't give up. The NFL season comes down to one big game every year and regardless of how a team played all season and what their record was the SB comes down to which team and QB plays the best THAT day.

 

[DanteEXT]

Yes that was total defensive rankings and the only reason I listed them was because Toruk claimed NE had top 5 defenses the years they won the SB.

Granted, Toruk was wrong. They were top 6 in PPG. Which is what I believe he was talking about. Total defense is a worthless stat to rank defense IMO.

 

[DanteEXT]

No question their defense played a part but their defense didn't prevent NE from having the lead in the final minutes of both SB's. Both games came down to the Giants offense and Eli having to come from behind to pull those games out. A lot of QB's fold in that situation but Eli pulled off 2 Joe Montana moments in 07 and 2011. The Giants didn't have real good teams those years. The Cowboys owned them during the 07 regular season putting up 76 points on their defense. Romo torched them for 8 TD's during the regular season and never had a passer rating lower than 123.1. The Giants started the 07 season by giving up 45 points to the Cowboys and 35 the following week to GB. They gave up 41 points to Minn in week 12 and 38 to NE in week 17. They were the lowest seeded team in the playoffs and looked nothing like a championship team heading into the playoffs.

They were underdogs every week but stepped up and although Eli wasn't putting up 300 yard games he played very efficiently and avoided the mistakes he was making consistently during the regular season. In 2011 the Giants were as up and down a team as the Cowboys for most of that season. They were 7-7 at one point and had the Cowboys held on to a 12 point lead in the 4th quarter the Giants wouldn't have made the playoffs. They ended up being the ONLY 9-7 team to ever win a SB. There wasn't anything special about either Giants team that won the SB but they didn't give up. The NFL season comes down to one big game every year and regardless of how a team played all season and what their record was the SB comes down to which team and QB plays the best THAT day.

Just some quick notes about the 2007 Giants (from a quick glance at the info, may have missed something):

Eli turned the ball over 17 times in wins, 10 in losses.
The Giants were 4-2 when Eli turned the ball over multiple times.
The Giants were 1-2 when Eli posted a 100+ passer rating.

The Giants showed in 2007 that Eli turning the ball over was not that detrimental to team winning.

Why did the Cowboys not own them in the playoffs that year? It's not like Eli had an overly impressive day (it was downright Dilferish).

In 2007, if the Giants defense doesn't shave off 22 points off NE's season average PPG, is the Giants offense even in a position to even win the game at the end?

In 2011, if the Giants defense doesn't shave off 15 points off NE's season average PPG, is the Giants offense even in a position to even win the game at the end?

Yes, the Giants D didn't prevent NE from having A lead in the final minutes. But they sure as hell prevented NE from having an insurmountable lead in the final minutes. Brady would have a hand of rings if it wasn't for that defense.

That defense, in both playoff runs, did more than play a part.

 

[DanteEXT]

No question their defense played a part but their defense didn't prevent NE from having the lead in the final minutes of both SB's. Both games came down to the Giants offense and Eli having to come from behind to pull those games out. A lot of QB's fold in that situation but Eli pulled off 2 Joe Montana moments in 07 and 2011. The Giants didn't have real good teams those years. The Cowboys owned them during the 07 regular season putting up 76 points on their defense. Romo torched them for 8 TD's during the regular season and never had a passer rating lower than 123.1. The Giants started the 07 season by giving up 45 points to the Cowboys and 35 the following week to GB. They gave up 41 points to Minn in week 12 and 38 to NE in week 17. They were the lowest seeded team in the playoffs and looked nothing like a championship team heading into the playoffs.

They were underdogs every week but stepped up and although Eli wasn't putting up 300 yard games he played very efficiently and avoided the mistakes he was making consistently during the regular season. In 2011 the Giants were as up and down a team as the Cowboys for most of that season. They were 7-7 at one point and had the Cowboys held on to a 12 point lead in the 4th quarter the Giants wouldn't have made the playoffs. They ended up being the ONLY 9-7 team to ever win a SB. There wasn't anything special about either Giants team that won the SB but they didn't give up. The NFL season comes down to one big game every year and regardless of how a team played all season and what their record was the SB comes down to which team and QB plays the best THAT day.

As another point to Eli not needing to be efficient and/or not turn the ball over for the Giants to be successful in 2007, Eli posted a -70 Qb rating 7 times. They went 5-2.

 

[KJJ]

Granted, Toruk was wrong. They were top 6 in PPG. Which is what I believe he was talking about. Total defense is a worthless stat to rank defense IMO.

No need to speak for Toruk he never said PPG he only mentioned that after I corrected him on the Pats defensive rankings. They weren't even top 5 in scoring defense all 3 SB years. Stats and defensive rankings don't tell you everything the Steelers had the 6th ranked scoring defense last season and finished 8-8 missing the playoffs. Chicago had the 4th ranked scoring defense and missed the playoffs. Baltimore had the 12th ranked scoring defense and won the SB. The Cowboys were #2 in scoring defense in 03 finishing 10-6 and was knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.

Washington had the #4 ranked scoring defense in 04 but ended up 6-10. All Toruk was doing was looking at the Pats scoring defense and pointing to that as the reason NE was winning their SB's. Never once did he give Brady an ounce of credit. He acted like he was being carried to those championships by NE's defense.

 

[KJJ]

As another point to Eli not needing to be efficient and/or not turn the ball over for the Giants to be successful in 2007, Eli posted a -70 Qb rating 7 times. They went 5-2.

That shows that regular season passer ratings don't tell you everything but they speak volumes in the postseason and SB because QB's have to be on their games to win in postseason and reach the SB.

 

[DanteEXT]

No need to speak for Toruk he never said PPG he only mentioned that after I corrected him on the Pats defensive rankings. They weren't even top 5 in scoring defense all 3 SB years. Stats and defensive rankings don't tell you everything the Steelers had the 6th ranked scoring defense last season and finished 8-8 missing the playoffs. Chicago had the 4th ranked scoring defense and missed the playoffs. Baltimore had the 12th ranked scoring defense and won the SB. The Cowboys were #2 in scoring defense in 03 finishing 10-6 and was knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.

Washington had the #4 ranked scoring defense in 04 but ended up 6-10. All Toruk was doing was looking at the Pats scoring defense and pointing to that as the reason NE was winning their SB's. Never once did he give Brady an ounce of credit. He acted like he was being carried to those championships by NE's defense.

No, they don't tell you everything but the provide good indicators.

Steelers scored 21 PPG and gave up 19.6, not surprising they finished 8-8.

Chicago scored 23.4 PPG and gave up 17.3, finished 10-6 and BARELY missed a wildcard.

Baltimore defense performed quite similar to the regular season, the offense upped their points from 24.9 to 31. During the regular season they scored just a couple more PPG than they gave up. No way they make it to the SB if that continued.

Not seeing the '03 Cowboys as #2....

2004 Washington team scored 15 PPG and gave up 16.6. Amazing they won 6 games.

The '01, 03 and '04 Patriots were not offensive juggernauts. But they didn't have to be. They were slightly above average the first 2. Which was more than good enough to win with the defense they had.

 

[KJJ]

No, they don't tell you everything but the provide good indicators.

Steelers scored 21 PPG and gave up 19.6, not surprising they finished 8-8.

Chicago scored 23.4 PPG and gave up 17.3, finished 10-6 and BARELY missed a wildcard.

Baltimore defense performed quite similar to the regular season, the offense upped their points from 24.9 to 31. During the regular season they scored just a couple more PPG than they gave up. No way they make it to the SB if that continued.

Not seeing the '03 Cowboys as #2....

2004 Washington team scored 15 PPG and gave up 16.6. Amazing they won 6 games.

The '01, 03 and '04 Patriots were not offensive juggernauts. But they didn't have to be. They were slightly above average the first 2. Which was more than good enough to win with the defense they had.

No point in discussing it any further we don't agree. My point is Brady has been the key to NE's success through the years and without him the Pats never become the team they have and Belichick never becomes the coach he has.