Romo was sharp today

[Toruk_Makto]

The true mark of a great QB is being able to get it done when they're down to their last drive and it's all on the line.

No it's not. Give me consistent excellence. Instead you'd rather define a guy's career by 15 snaps. And somehow you think that makes sense.

 

[KJJ]

In 2001 New England was 6th in points given up. In 2003 no team gave up fewer points than the Patriots. In 2004 only 1 team gave up fewer points than the patriots. I think top 5 fits.

And in all this posting you didn't touch on the fact that in two playoff wins in that 2007 season you are talking about Eli threw for less than 200 yards. You claim Eli came up big in the playoffs and that is the reason we are to believe that he plays his best in the playoffs.

Again i'm going to say this very slowly....in that 2007 playoff run by the giants Eli never threw for 300 yards or 3 tds in a game. In half of his 4 games he threw for 185 yards or less. So a helmet miracle catch is what gives Eli some kind of playoff street cred?

You can't be serious.

You claimed Brady was winning SB's with top 5 defenses you were wrong. A lot of the success NE's defense has had is due to how efficient Brady and the offense has been. NE scores a lot of points and this has helped their defense. Brady doesn't make a habit of leaving his defense with a short field due to turnovers. Opponents start getting behind and have to press which plays into the hands of the defense. All you keep mentioning about Eli is his 2007 postseason run where he was more of a game manager. Regardless of how many yards he passed for during the postseason his TD to turnover ratio was 6-1 and his passer rating was 95.7.

That's pretty impressive for a QB who turned the ball over 27 times during the 07 regular season and finished the year with a passer rating of 73.9. It's not all about yards it's about efficiency and not turning the ball over. If the 07 SB was all about a miracle helmet catch than Tyree would have been named the games MVP. In the postseason in 2011 Eli passed for 1219 yards and 9 TD's and only had one turnover. He had a passer rating of 103.3.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You claimed Brady was winning SB's with top 5 defenses you were wrong. A lot of the success NE's defense has had is due to how efficient Brady and the offense has been. NE scores a lot of points and this has helped their defense. Brady doesn't make a habit of leaving his defense with a short field due to turnovers. Opponents start getting behind and have to press which plays into the hands of the defense. All you keep mentioning about Eli is his 2007 postseason run where he was more of a game manager. Regardless of how many yards he passed for during the postseason his TD to turnover ratio was 6-1 and his passer rating was 95.7.

That's pretty impressive for a QB who turned the ball over 27 times during the 07 regular season and finished the year with a passer rating of 73.9. It's not all about yards it's about efficiency and not turning the ball over. If the 07 SB was all about a miracle helmet catch than Tyree would have been named the games MVP. In the postseason in 2011 Eli passed for 1219 yards and 9 TD's and only had one turnover. He had a passer rating of 103.3.

Did you ignore where I showed you that on a points allowed basis the Pats were 6th, 1st and 2nd in their 3 super bowl wins? That makes me wrong? Are you even reading my posts?

So in 4 games Eli threw 6 tds and averaged barely over 200 yards per game (a number he didn't eclipse twice) and somehow that was him making a claim for the Manning home championship qb belt?

And somehow those 4 games overshadow an entire career of fairly mediocre qb play?

Fooled by randomness. Read it.

 

[KJJ]

How anyone can look past Eli throwing for 549 yards in 3 games and call him some kind of big game player blows my mind.

Stop watching ESPN. I have nothing against the worldwide leader but you clearly are being unduly influenced by soundbites designed to be catchy and 15 seconds long. That's the only way you could possibly be trying to make this argument.

You actually want to argue that Eli isn't a good big game QB? Appears it's all about yards with you. Eli is 9-3 in "elimination" games and most of those wins have come on the road. You're dogging his production during the 07 postseason when it led to a championship. He was involved in arguably the greatest play in SB history during a last ditch drive and came up BIG. Had he not been able to pull away from a sure sack and gather himself to make an accurate throw Tyree would have had no chance to pull that catch off. Even after that play Eli had to complete the drive with a TD to Plax. In week 14 vs the Cowboys in 2011 on the road he helped the Giants overcome a 12 point deficit in the final few minutes to pull a game out that had the Giants lost they would have been sitting home for the playoffs and the Cowboys would have gotten in. Eli set an NFL record in 2011 with 4th quarter TD's that helped bring the Giants from behind in several games..

Eli is the only QB to beat Tom Brady in a SB and he's done it twice. In 2011 on the road in GB he out dueled the leagues MVP Aaron Rodgers with a 330 yard, 3 TD performance. I don't get influenced by anyone I'm an opinionated fan who calls things the way I see it and could care less what ESPN or anyone else thinks. It's not my fault I see it the way the experts who've played and coached the game see it and not the armchair FANS here who have an obvious bias. I make my own arguments with facts and stats. If Romo had the resume Eli has and pulled off the big wins he has would you be arguing against him as a big game QB? So what's your opinion of Romo as a big game QB? Can't wait to hear that if you even choose to answer it. LOL

 

[KJJ]

Did you ignore where I showed you that on a points allowed basis the Pats were 6th, 1st and 2nd in their 3 super bowl wins? That makes me wrong? Are you even reading my posts?

So in 4 games Eli threw 6 tds and averaged barely over 200 yards per game (a number he didn't eclipse twice) and somehow that was him making a claim for the Manning home championship qb belt?

And somehow those 4 games overshadow an entire career of fairly mediocre qb play?

Fooled by randomness. Read it.

You claimed the Pats had top 5 defenses during Brady's SB wins and you were wrong! Come back when you have your facts straight. You're trying to spin that the reason Brady wins is because of his defense. If it wasn't for Brady Belichick would be a coordinator somewhere. In 2001 NE was 0-2 and Belichick was on the hot seat until Brady turned him into a genius. The year before under Bledsoe NE was 5-11. You can spin it anyway you want but NE never becomes the team they have without Tom Brady. As for Eli you're wasting time complaining about his yards it's not about the yards...give it up!

 

[KJJ]

No it's not. Give me consistent excellence. Instead you'd rather define a guy's career by 15 snaps. And somehow you think that makes sense.

That's your spin you're just wasting time.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You claimed the Pats had top 5 defenses during Brady's SB wins and you were wrong! Come back when you have your facts straight. You're trying to spin that the reason Brady wins is because of his defense. If it wasn't for Brady Belichick would be a coordinator somewhere. In 2001 NE was 0-2 and Belichick was on the hot seat until Brady turned him into a genius. The year before under Bledsoe NE was 5-11. You can spin it anyway you want but NE never becomes the team they have without Tom Brady. As for Eli you're wasting time complaining about his yards it's not about the yards...give it up!

How was I wrong? I just showed you they were 6th, 1st and 2nd on points allowed by the defense. I may have undersold them when I called them just top 5.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You actually want to argue that Eli isn't a good big game QB? Appears it's all about yards with you. Eli is 9-3 in "elimination" games and most of those wins have come on the road. You're dogging his production during the 07 postseason when it led to a championship. He was involved in arguably the greatest play in SB history during a last ditch drive and came up BIG. Had he not been able to pull away from a sure sack and gather himself to make an accurate throw Tyree would have had no chance to pull that catch off. Even after that play Eli had to complete the drive with a TD to Plax. In week 14 vs the Cowboys in 2011 on the road he helped the Giants overcome a 12 point deficit in the final few minutes to pull a game out that had the Giants lost they would have been sitting home for the playoffs and the Cowboys would have gotten in. Eli set an NFL record in 2011 with 4th quarter TD's that helped bring the Giants from behind in several games..A

Eli is the only QB to beat Tom Brady in a SB and he's done it twice. In 2011 on the road in GB he out dueled the leagues MVP Aaron Rodgers with a 330 yard, 3 TD performance. I don't get influenced by anyone I'm an opinionated fan who calls things the way I see it and could care less what ESPN or anyone else thinks. It's not my fault I see it the way the experts who've played and coached the game see it and not the armchair FANS here who have an obvious bias. I make my own arguments with facts and stats. If Romo had the resume Eli has and pulled off the big wins he has would you be arguing against him as a big game QB? So what's your opinion of Romo as a big game QB? Can't wait to hear that if you even choose to answer it. LOL

Who is Eli? The guy we have seen play 137 regular season games...or the guy represented by a few games you are cherry picking from to prove a point?

Eli Manning is not a great qb. There is a wealth of information that proves exactly that. Sorry I don't put as much stake in a helmet catch as you do.

 

[DanteEXT]

How was I wrong? I just showed you they were 6th, 1st and 2nd on points allowed by the defense. I may have undersold them when I called them just top 5.

KJJ doesn't care about how many points a defense gives up. As long as they don't give up very many yards. Yards given up, that's what he cares about.

 

[DanteEXT]

You claimed Brady was winning SB's with top 5 defenses you were wrong. A lot of the success NE's defense has had is due to how efficient Brady and the offense has been. NE scores a lot of points and this has helped their defense. Brady doesn't make a habit of leaving his defense with a short field due to turnovers. Opponents start getting behind and have to press which plays into the hands of the defense. All you keep mentioning about Eli is his 2007 postseason run where he was more of a game manager. Regardless of how many yards he passed for during the postseason his TD to turnover ratio was 6-1 and his passer rating was 95.7.

That's pretty impressive for a QB who turned the ball over 27 times during the 07 regular season and finished the year with a passer rating of 73.9. It's not all about yards it's about efficiency and not turning the ball over. If the 07 SB was all about a miracle helmet catch than Tyree would have been named the games MVP. In the postseason in 2011 Eli passed for 1219 yards and 9 TD's and only had one turnover. He had a passer rating of 103.3.

The Patriots were not a scoring machine in 2001 or 2003.

2001
Regular season 23.2
Postseason 20

2003
Regular season 21.8
Postseason 24.3

2004
Regular season 27.3
Postseason 28.3

 

[Jarv]

In the NFLN's top 100 players of "all time" list Peyton was ranked #10. If that's not being overrated I don't know what is. The fact they had him rated ahead of Brady shows how ridiculous that ranking was.

Brady never won a championship without his coach cheating. I would put an asterisk next to his name.

 

[Jarv]

First...As to Peyton Manning vs. Brady...I am absolutely confident that if you give Peyton all those top 5 defenses back when he was in his prime he wins those same Superbowls that Brady does. Since Brady has become a prolific NFL QB he has exactly 0 superbowl titles.

Now Eli Manning? Oh please. First you exaggerate how good that Patriots team was in 2007. The big difference is that that team ran up the score. And if you recall that New England team peaked early with a bunch of dominant wins but in the final 6 weeks of the season they won 3 games by 3 points each.

In the Superbowl he played better than Brady (barely virtually same yardage and eli had 2 tds to Brady's 1 but he also threw a pick where Brady did not).

Brady himself was sacked 5 times in the superbowl and repeatedly harassed. That Patriots team wins comfortably if not for the other worldly great performance by that defensive line. And you want to talk about how good Eli was? Dude had 549 yards (TOTAL) in the 3 games leading up to the superbowl. Hardly fits your "QB plays the best when it's all on the line" narrative that you picked up from ESPN.

Nice post, I think KJJ just looks at the QB when it comes to wins and losses. The Giants defense and a great catch by a no name receiver won that game, not Eli. Its a team sport. To his defense he looks at Romo the same way, if we don't win it's Romo's fault.

 

[Aurican]

Not sure why some can't accept that some games are much more important than others. Playing great against a scrub team in a blowout during the regular season should never be compared to a do or die playoff or elimination game against the best teams in the league. I also think Manning is overrated, he benefited from playing in a horrible division for a lot of his career and his great performances usually disappeared when playing against the best in the playoffs.

 

[Doomsday101]

Not sure why some can't accept that some games are much more important than others. Playing great against a scrub team in a blowout during the regular season should never be compared to a do or die playoff or elimination game against the best teams in the league. I also think Manning is overrated, he benefited from playing in a horrible division for a lot of his career and his great performances usually disappeared when playing against the best in the playoffs.

I agree but then I would also say I don't see anyone offense or defense stepping up in the big games you are referring to.

 

[Rockport]

No one is basing it just off their playoff record or everyone would have Eli ahead of Peyton. Don't say you would take either one pick one. If you had one game to win and every dime you had depended on that one game who would you pick in their primes Peyton or Montana and why? Joe Montana's career was built by coming through in the clutch in do or die games. In his 4 SB appearances he had an 11-0 TD to turnover ratio and never had a passer rating lower than 100.0. During the postseason in 89 which included 2 playoff games and the SB his passer rating was an incredible 146.4. Even the NFLN was smart enough to rate him as the greatest QB in history and 4th greatest player all-time.

I would love to see if anyone could come up with one logical reason why they would pick Peyton Manning over Joe Montana if they had one game to win and everything riding on it. The true mark of a great QB is being able to get it done when they're down to their last drive and it's all on the line. No QB was better in that situation than Montana. Go back to the 88 SB SF vs Cinn and listen to Sam Wyche as he was pacing the sidelines watching Montana drive SF down the field against his defense in the final seconds. You'll never see or hear a HC in that situation look and sound so resigned to their teams fate.

I would take either one.

 

[cowboys2233]

KJJ doesn't care about how many points a defense gives up. As long as they don't give up very many yards. Yards given up, that's what he cares about.

Too funny! Yards given up is such a worthless stat. Yes, points allowed is THE stat to measure a defense by and obviously, the Patriots had top 5 defenses as Toruk said. KJJ is just wrong here.

 

[Rockport]

KJJ doesn't care about how many points a defense gives up. As long as they don't give up very many yards. Yards given up, that's what he cares about.

And Superbowl wins. He doesn't know that there are 52 other players on the team playing the game. He doesn't get that.

 

[KJJ]

Too funny! Yards given up is such a worthless stat. Yes, points allowed is THE stat to measure a defense by and obviously, the Patriots had top 5 defenses as Toruk said. KJJ is just wrong here.

He was wrong the Pats defenses weren't ranked in the top 5.

 

[KJJ]

The Patriots were not a scoring machine in 2001 or 2003.

2001
Regular season 23.2
Postseason 20

2003
Regular season 21.8
Postseason 24.3

2004
Regular season 27.3
Postseason 28.3

Their points were increasing in postseason each year as Brady matured. They averaged just over 27 points during the regular season in 04 and over 28 points during the postseason.

 

[KJJ]

I would take either one.

I said pick one and you refuse. It's not even close between Peyton and Montana in a must win game.