Round 1 Tyron Smith Thoughts

[LehighCowboy]

No, its a dumb dumb dumb dumb idea to pick a guy that is somewhere between the 13-16th best prospect ahead of a guy that is top 7 or 8. Thats just common sense. Youre belief would make sense if we were picking in the mid to late 1st round where the player rankings are interchangeable, but we have a top 10 pick. We CAN NOT pass on a blue chip player and reach for a player when we have multiple needs. Yes, OT is a need, but we're talking about getting guys that are potential pro-bowlers from day 1 in Peterson, Prince, Fairely, Dareus, or Miller. If 1 of those guys is there at #9 and we dont take them it would be a near monumental mistake.

"top 13-16" prospect according to who?

 

[UnoDallas]

No, its a dumb dumb dumb dumb idea to pick a guy that is somewhere between the 13-16th best prospect ahead of a guy that is top 7 or 8. Thats just common sense. Youre belief would make sense if we were picking in the mid to late 1st round where the player rankings are interchangeable, but we have a top 10 pick. We CAN NOT pass on a blue chip player and reach for a player when we have multiple needs. Yes, OT is a need, but we're talking about getting guys that are potential pro-bowlers from day 1 in Peterson, Prince, Fairely, Dareus, or Miller. If 1 of those guys is there at #9 and we dont take them it would be a near monumental mistake.

and aren't they prospects

none of them have played a down in the NFL

well all of them will be gone

 

[UnoDallas]

I'd like to have Peterson even though he might be a dumb as a box of rocks....

as for OL, I'd MUCH prefer to trade down and take either Carimi or Sherrod. I think Carimi will end up a pro bowler. Smith may very well end up as one too but I think Carimi and Sherrod are safer picks, esp if you end up getting them in the late teens or early twenties...plus you have one or two extra picks to go with them. In fact, if we just can't get PP, trading down to get an OL should be our plan B.

ok who was the Safer pick B Carp or Mangold

so you don't want to take a chance on Smith - gifted athlete for the position who at only 20 years old is far from a finished product. However, the flexibility, athleticism, frame and body control are all there for this guy to develop into a very good starting left or right tackle in the NFL, depending on where he feels comfortable.

what I been hering that Carimi - Struggles to consistently keep his base down and footwork compact on his kick-slide and can be bullied at the point at times because of his overextended footwork

But too often explosive defensive ends are able to reach the corner on his kick-slide, forcing him to quickly open up his hips and lunge into his target in an effort to push them past the play

 

[TheCount]

ok who was the Safer pick B Carp or Mangold

so you don't want to take a chance on Smith - gifted athlete for the position who at only 20 years old is far from a finished product. However, the flexibility, athleticism, frame and body control are all there for this guy to develop into a very good starting left or right tackle in the NFL, depending on where he feels comfortable.

what I been hering that Carimi - Struggles to consistently keep his base down and footwork compact on his kick-slide and can be bullied at the point at times because of his overextended footwork

But too often explosive defensive ends are able to reach the corner on his kick-slide, forcing him to quickly open up his hips and lunge into his target in an effort to push them past the play

Amusingly enough, I've seen Smith make the same mistakes.

However I will say this, #9 is not the position to be "taking a shot" on anyone. Even if the guy you draft ends up being a bust, when you draft him you have o KNOW he is going to be a star.

 

[tm1119]

"top 13-16" prospect according to who?

More or less everybody? How many scouts/draft websites have smith ranked any higher than 10? You'll find most everybody has him ranked lower than 10.

 

[IrishAnto]

But he does fix the secondary, which finished dead last in the NFL last year.

Does he fix the secondary?
In 2002 we picked Roy Williams no. 8 overall.
In 2003 we picked Terence Newman no. 5 overall.
In 2008 we picked Mike Jenkins no. 25 overall and added Packman Jones in free agency (no. 6 pick overall 2005)

At the start of the 2008 season we had all of these players on the team and managed that year to generate the 3rd highest sack total in a 16 game regular season. Despite the excellent pass rush this group which also included Ken Hamlin (no. 42 overall in 2003) only managed 7 interceptions all year.

Picking a guy high in the draft doesn’t by itself fix anything. They have to be used properly.
Wade Phillips couldn’t do it.
Can Rob Ryan?
That remains to be seen.

 

[IrishAnto]

Sensabaugh is a UFA.

Ball a liability.

Newman the most probable cap cut on the team.

By my math that is 75% of the starting Secondary. We have players in place who can replace Davis and Colombo. Even if not great players they are better than the options we have in the secondary.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming you’re referring to Montrae Holland and
Sam Young when you say we have the players in place who can replace Davis and Colombo.

The same Sam Young who was a 6th round draft pick and hasn’t seen a meaningful snap in the NFL yet?

The same Montrae Holland who doesn’t seem to be able to stay healthy for more that two consecutive games?

What if Doug Free goes down?

The only guy we have who has any experience at left tackle is Davis who was benched for poor play last year by the aforementioned Holland.

What if Kosier doesn’t resign?

Yea the OL is in better shape than the secondary!!!!

 

[Hostile]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming you’re referring to Montrae Holland and
Sam Young when you say we have the players in place who can replace Davis and Colombo.

The same Sam Young who was a 6th round draft pick and hasn’t seen a meaningful snap in the NFL yet?

The same Montrae Holland who doesn’t seem to be able to stay healthy for more that two consecutive games?

What if Doug Free goes down?

The only guy we have who has any experience at left tackle is Davis who was benched for poor play last year by the aforementioned Holland.

What if Kosier doesn’t resign?

Yea the OL is in better shape than the secondary!!!!

You happy with Jenkins last year? I think he can bounce back, but I'm not happy with him.

This is a passing league and if we go into the 2011 season with a defensive backfield of Scandrick, Church, McCann, and Jenkins I promise you that the greatest OL in History would not save us.

 

[IrishAnto]

You happy with Jenkins last year? I think he can bounce back, but I'm not happy with him.

This is a passing league and if we go into the 2011 season with a defensive backfield of Scandrick, Church, McCann, and Jenkins I promise you that the greatest OL in History would not save us.

Last years Jenkins no, but I could more than live with the 2009 Jenkins.

Our main problem player wise was safety, not corner and since trying to fix that in this years draft would be very risky if not impossible then free agency (if there is one) is the way to go there.

To me the main problem with the defence is more to do with coaching and not lack of talent (with maybe safety being an exception).

After Phillips got canned, this defence who for the previous 4-5 years couldn’t generate a turnover to save its life suddenly managed 20 in eight games, only one less that the whole 16 regular season games of the previous year. The personnel didn’t change, but the coaching did.

Let’s see what Rob Ryan can do before we throw yet another first round pick at the secondary.

 

[TheFinisher]

Does he fix the secondary?
In 2002 we picked Roy Williams no. 8 overall.
In 2003 we picked Terence Newman no. 5 overall.
In 2008 we picked Mike Jenkins no. 25 overall and added Packman Jones in free agency (no. 6 pick overall 2005)

At the start of the 2008 season we had all of these players on the team and managed that year to generate the 3rd highest sack total in a 16 game regular season. Despite the excellent pass rush this group which also included Ken Hamlin (no. 42 overall in 2003) only managed 7 interceptions all year.

Picking a guy high in the draft doesn’t by itself fix anything. They have to be used properly.
Wade Phillips couldn’t do it.
Can Rob Ryan?
That remains to be seen.

I'm kind of confused by this post, I can't tell if you saying "we shouldn't spend a high pick on a DB because we drafted a few busts" or "the coaching has let us down by not using those guys properly".

What I do know is that the secondary was the biggest problem on our team this year. I keep repeating myself but it seems like people are forgetting this, we finished last in the NFL in passing yards allowed. Let's not outsmart ourselves by thinking our pass rush was the weakness on D when we have the most dominant pass rusher in the NFL, this secondary needs to be fixed and if we fail to do that then we should expect the same season we just had. Our offense was a top 5 unit this year with Jon freaking Kitna at QB, yet everyone wants to point the finger at the offensive line for our bad season?

Our defense is terrible and we can't expect a new coordinator to transform this unit without giving him some talent to work with. Rob's defense relies on great secondary play which is way I want us to move up for Peterson, he's a big time talent and a gamechanger.

Here's a question for the Tyron supporters:

Even if we were to address OL with our 1st pick, why is Tyron Smith so attractive for us? Our biggest issue was not getting any movement up front for the run game, yet we're all giddy over the worst run blocking Tackle in this draft? Not to mention we already have a good LT who's only 26, why invest a top 10 pick to upgrade your RT position? RTs are significantly less valuable than LTs no matter how hard someone wants to argue it, how they're drafted and the difference in contracts should be proof enough. We know Marc Colombo sucks, but guess what... there will be 10 or more Tackles available in FA who would be an immediate upgrade because yes he was that bad.

I've also said this before and I'd love for someone to prove me wrong, I have NEVER heard of a team that has a good situation at the LT position draft a Tackle in the top 10. If we can't trade up for Peterson or decide we want to address the OL early, then we better trade down because it would be idiotic to spend the 9th pick reaching on a propject to upgrade our RT position.

 

[IrishAnto]

I'm kind of confused by this post, I can't tell if you saying "we shouldn't spend a high pick on a DB because we drafted a few busts" or "the coaching has let us down by not using those guys properly". What I do know is that the secondary was the biggest problem on our team this year. I keep repeating myself but it seems like people are forgetting this, we finished last in the NFL in passing yards allowed. Let's not outsmart ourselves by thinking our pass rush was the weakness on D when we have the most dominant pass rusher in the NFL, this secondary needs to be fixed and if we fail to do that then we should expect the same season we just had. Our offense was a top 5 unit this year with Jon freaking Kitna at QB, yet everyone wants to point the finger at the offensive line for our bad season?

Our defense is terrible and we can't expect a new coordinator to transform this unit without giving him some talent to work with. Rob's defense relies on great secondary play which is way I want us to move up for Peterson, he's a big time talent and a gamechanger.

Here's a question for the Tyron supporters:

Even if we were to address OL with our 1st pick, why is Tyron Smith so attractive for us? Our biggest issue was not getting any movement up front for the run game, yet we're all giddy over the worst run blocking Tackle in this draft? Not to mention we already have a good LT who's only 26, why invest a top 10 pick to upgrade your RT position? RTs are significantly less valuable than LTs no matter how hard someone wants to argue it, how they're drafted and the difference in contracts should be proof enough. We know Marc Colombo sucks, but guess what... there will be 10 or more Tackles available in FA who would be an immediate upgrade because yes he was that bad.

I've also said this before and I'd love for someone to prove me wrong, I have NEVER heard of a team that has a good situation at the LT position draft a Tackle in the top 10. If we can't trade up for Peterson or decide we want to address the OL early, then we better trade down because it would be idiotic to spend the 9th pick reaching on a propject to upgrade our RT position.

I’m saying the primary problem with the defence as a whole is more to do with the coaching than a lack of talent.

At the start of the 2008 season we had 9 former number one round picks on the defense and two second round picks and despite having the highest number of sacks during the regular season the defence only managed 8 picks (the first being by Greg Ellis in game 4).

Seriously you think a lack of talent was to blame?

 

[TheFinisher]

I’m saying the primary problem with the defence as a whole is more to do with the coaching than a lack of talent.

At the start of the 2008 season we had 9 former number one round picks on the defense and two second round picks and despite having the highest number of sacks during the regular season the defence only managed 8 picks (the first being by Greg Ellis in game 4).

Seriously you think a lack of talent was to blame?

Yes, I only see 2 good players on our Defense.

Im not a Sean Lee fan. I thought he was a JAG LB to be honest. Outside of OLB and 1 DE/NT spot (Ratliff, who actually had a down season), I think this defense can use a major overhaul.

Both DE spots are below average. Both ILB spots are below average. We have 1 somewhat-promising CB in Jenkins who had a terrible season, and no safeties.

That's what I see, and it's no coincidence that they played so poorly this season. We need help everywhere but the most pressing needs are in the secondary.

 

[IrishAnto]

Yes, I only see 2 good players on our Defense.

Im not a Sean Lee fan. I thought he was a JAG LB to be honest. Outside of OLB and 1 DE/NT spot (Ratliff, who actually had a down season), I think this defense can use a major overhaul.

Both DE spots are below average. Both ILB spots are below average. We have 1 somewhat-promising CB in Jenkins who had a terrible season, and no safeties.

That's what I see, and it's no coincidence that they played so poorly this season. We need help everywhere but the most pressing needs are in the secondary.

My point was that on the 2008 team we had 9 number one round picks (4 of which were taken in the top 10 of their respective drafts (and D Ware at no. 11) and still couldn’t to jack!

Last year we had to make do with only 6 and still did little until Phillips got the boot, while out Quarterbacks got beaten to a pulp behind our rapidly deteriorating OL

It Rob Ryan is half as good as he talks, then with some additional picks in the second round or later and a decent safety in free agency the defense should be better.

 

[TheCount]

I'm with Irish on this one.

It's easy to get distracted from address the non-flashy trench players, and we've been distracted plenty.

It may not be sexy, but it's high time.

 

[Gaede]

It may not be sexy, but it's high time.

Agreed! While I'm not a great fan of Tyron Smith, addressing the OL that early is absolutely necessary. Even though I'm not high on the player, I would still be OK with the pick because it's an area of the team often ignored

 

[dfense]

Hostile, Peterson could be gone for sure (I hope that he is gone), but I'm not so sure that he will not be there at 6. Again, if he is there at 6, Dallas has over rated him a bit. That should be proof. Smith should be rated ahead of Peterson in this draft for the Cowboys. I bet New England has Smith rated higher.

I think Smith and Quinn and Green can be just as big of a star in the league at their respective positions as Peterson can be. They all play marquee positions and Smith and Quinn are just 20 years old.

Again, I think you underestimate Cleveland not wanting to lose their player to Tennessee or San Francisco in a trade down, and Jason Garrett most likely covets Smith more, I think. I think Jason Garrett would over rule a trade up for Peterson and put his foot down and start to rebuild the offensive line with the blue chip Smith.

If you trade down and let Miami jump Minnesota for Mallet, the Vikings will almost certainly take Smith. They may take him anyway. The Commanders, Vikings, Lions, Chargers, Patriots, Giants, Eagles, Colts, are all major threats to take Smith if available.

Smith will not get past Minnesota and Detroit.

You are right about saying that Dallas would probably just take Smith at 9.

The Commanders, Vikings, Lions, Chargers, Patriots, Giants, Eagles, Colts, are all major threats to take Smith if available.


Do you really think the Commanders will draft another LOT in consecutive years in the top 10?

 

[dallasfaniac]

PP is clearly the best DB of this draft class, with a huge (IMO) drop between him and Prince and an even larger drop between them and Harris, Smith and Williams, etc. There is even talk about Peterson being taken 1st overall.

Several sites have Castonzo rated higher than Tyron Smith and many more give Smith the edge solely based upon potential, with college production being about equal. It appears that the concensus is that the only way Smith is taken top 10 is if Dallas pulls the trigger, but otherwise he is a top 15 type of prospect.

If I can trade up for Peterson cheap (something 3rd or later) I pull the trigger because the difference between him and the rest of the DB/FS pack is very large IMO. If I can't trade up but can trade down to the middle of the 1st, I take that in a heartbeat because the difference between Smith and Castonzo, Carimi etc. isn't that great. I would then be able to potentially package picks to move back up or fill a couple other holes where the picks lay. If I can't trade up and can't trade down, I take Smith and hope that he reaches his potential. Smith is an intriguing prospect, I just hate banking on potential.