Roy Williams

[Bull Frog]

Were you watching on TV and listening to Madden and Michaels the first time?

That's probably the reason. I just find it interesting that the guy receives 100% of the blame for the defense giving up 35 points. The Giants ran 66 plays and because of 2 or 3 bad plays, RW is getting railroaded in the media and this board. I guess he raised the bar so high early in his career it's to be expected.

 

[Dallyjake]

31 could have made the tackle instead of taking on the block. I didn't call him chicken...The camera angle sure made it look bad. He seemed to have plenty of speed and room to get his arms on the ball carrier.

 

[LarryCanadian]

Sorry guys but i have to disagree with you on that particular play. I understand the concept, I understand taking on the blocker, and I understand funneling the player inside to other defenders (although as the SS I'd hope that isn't your job for the most part since, that is job of DT, DE's and LB's first. From the angle (and I wish I was techy enough to put a clip of the play on the net) Roy had a direct lane to the runner with the ball. Again the camera angle might affect the look (depth perception was hard from that shot), BUT the guard didn't look like he was in front of the runner at all. Roy had to step to the left to meet the guard head on, that's why I was surprised. I thought Roy could have gone right past the guard and still had the runner on his inside shoulder. He took himself out of tackling position when he saw the guard coming to him. I admit you can't tell who is behind Roy, but it sure LOOKED like a terrible decision. It was my opinion that Roy, as a Pro Bowler, should have been able to cut inside the guard and make a play on the runner. He looked like he took himself out of the play. I expected more.

I need to watch the game again, but that play really stood out to me.

Larry

 

[Dallyjake]

If someone has that play please put it up. I feel Larry and I have this one pegged. I know he had room to get by the lineman and make the tackle. If we are wrong then so be it. I wish I had the video so everyone could form their own opinion without questioning our football knowledge.

 

[dallasfaniac]

If someone has that play please put it up. I feel Larry and I have this one pegged. I know he had room to get by the lineman and make the tackle. If we are wrong then so be it. I wish I had the video so everyone could form their own opinion without questioning our football knowledge.

You may want to post the time the play took place, cause no one is going to go through 3 hours of video looking for one play....

 

[Dallyjake]

I can't remember exactly when it happened...I just know it stood out big time. Sorry fellas...If anyone else has a memory of this play please advise.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

That's probably the reason. I just find it interesting that the guy receives 100% of the blame for the defense giving up 35 points. The Giants ran 66 plays and because of 2 or 3 bad plays, RW is getting railroaded in the media and this board. I guess he raised the bar so high early in his career it's to be expected.

Agreed on all counts.



I find it ironic that on any other team, the CBs get the blame if a WR has a great game. In Dallas, Roy gets all the blame.

I find it ironic that on any other team, the D-Linemen or the LBs get the blame if a RB has a great game. In Dallas, Roy gets all the blame.

I find it ironic that on any other team, the entire secondary gets the blame if a QB has a great game. In Dallas, Roy gets all the blame.

 

[khiladi]

I find it ironic that on any other team, the CBs get the blame if a WR has a great game. In Dallas, Roy gets all the blame.

Not necessarily true. Roy has been absolved of the blame for many years. Before than, it was either the CBs or Watkins.

I find it ironic that on any other team, the D-Linemen or the LBs get the blame if a RB has a great game. In Dallas, Roy gets all the blame.

Our defensive line has been getting the blame for lack of pass rush for ages. Hello, Spears....

I find it ironic that on any other team, the entire secondary gets the blame if a QB has a great game. In Dallas, Roy gets all the blame.

Again, it is only in the last 2 years Roy has been getting the blame.

And face it.... Roy is getting PAID, and he's not living up to HIS pay-check. His salary rate alone allows him to be subject to more criticism, just as Spears being a FIRST-ROUND pick allows him to be subject to more criticism.

I love Roy, but he seems to be playing with fear, instead of how he use to play. He use to put fear in the heart of the offense.

 

[McCordsville Cowboy]

Roy Williams tied for a league high 9 tackles this week....

I realize our problem is in the seconday, not on tackles, but thats not awful.

Flame away...

Trade him for Reggie Nelson...

 

[TEK2000]

Sorry guys but i have to disagree with you on that particular play. I understand the concept, I understand taking on the blocker, and I understand funneling the player inside to other defenders (although as the SS I'd hope that isn't your job for the most part since, that is job of DT, DE's and LB's first. From the angle (and I wish I was techy enough to put a clip of the play on the net) Roy had a direct lane to the runner with the ball. Again the camera angle might affect the look (depth perception was hard from that shot), BUT the guard didn't look like he was in front of the runner at all. Roy had to step to the left to meet the guard head on, that's why I was surprised. I thought Roy could have gone right past the guard and still had the runner on his inside shoulder. He took himself out of tackling position when he saw the guard coming to him. I admit you can't tell who is behind Roy, but it sure LOOKED like a terrible decision. It was my opinion that Roy, as a Pro Bowler, should have been able to cut inside the guard and make a play on the runner. He looked like he took himself out of the play. I expected more.

I need to watch the game again, but that play really stood out to me.

Larry

I hate to tell you but you are wrong Larry.

The outside guys MUST keep outside containment. If he steps inside of the guard and the RB runs to the outside.. its Roy's fault for allowing the runner to the outside. ILBers play inside-out... OLB's, CB's, and Safeties play outside-in.

If Roy cuts inside and the RB wind's up to the outside... the CB is the only player left to make the tackle. If Roy cuts outside and forces the RB back to the inside... both ILBers should be right there to make the tackle.
IMHO, he did exactly what he was suppose to do.

Outside containment is something that I worried about a lot with Anthony Spencer because he routinely got sealed off to the inside and allowed the RB to get outside of him and break for good gains during the preseason. He seemed to do much better at this against the Giants.

In this defense EVERYONE has a specific gap assignment. Roy has a gap assignment as well when he's up closer to the line of scrimmage. If any player does not maintain their gap responsibility.. the defense has a huge hole in it. Exhibit of this would be the 44 yard run where Akin bailed to the outside and left a huge hole to the inside when Ware and Roy were both on the outside forcing the runner back to the inside.

Larry, if you rewatched the game.. tell me the time of the game and I'll post the play. I'm almost certain that we're talking about the same play.

 

[LarryCanadian]

Fair enough Teck. I haven't had a chance to watch yet. Darn work getting in the way of my lesiure fun. Game is replaying on NFL network now too and I will either catch it there or on my tape and give you a time. Then we can debate it some more.

I appreciate debating stuff like this without degenerating into a flame war. I am a Roy Williams supporter and don't mind being corrected if wrong. I still do understand what you meant by containment. But in this case I think the right play (from the angle I saw) suggested Roy should have attacked runner. Now runner did get taken down by those to Roy's right. I am not a football expert by any means, having played soccer and rugby all my life.

Give me a few more hours. It's interesting and educational to view these tapes as things are getting heated on these forums about some players. Roy in particular. Spears and Canty also. I admit to being totally lost as to what DE's in the 3-4 are suppossed to do and if Spears and Canty by seeming to be invisible for large chunks of time are perhaps still doing a good job as to what they are told to do? I understand that just because someone doesn't show on a stats sheet repeatedly or make exciting plays doesn't mean they aren't good players. Nor does making 8 tackles mean you had a great game either, hehe.

Later,

Larry

 

[eduncan22]

All I know is Roy didn't cover Burress when Reeves released him to the inside... Guess what happened? TD!

Reeves should not have dropped his coverage on Burris.

There wasn't anyone else on this side of the field.

You can't expect Roy to have eyes in the back of his head.

 

[LarryCanadian]

The play I and another poster were referring to happened in the 4th quarter with 11 minutes left. Ward made a run and Guard Snee bore down on Williams.

Not sure if the replay is the same angle that was shown originally during the live broadcast. Madden mentions the guard on Williams. The replay during NFL Network repeat tonight showed the behind angle (although I'm fairly certain there was a closer up shot in the original broadcast from behind).

LarryCanadian

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I'm with Larry on this one. When the ballcarrier is already into your secondary, you aren't supposed to avoid him and run by him simply because he isn't in your gap. You're supposed to take on the blocker or do whatever it takes to get the guy on the ground.

At least that's how I remember it in real time. It looked like the end of last year, when Roy uncharacteristically kept running up and running into blockers without even making an effort at the ballcarrier. Very strange.

And this is from as big a Roy supporter as anyone. But hey, there's nothing wrong with pointing out a bad play. It's not like I (or most people) are saying he's awful on every single play.

You know... This is Roy's sixth year of playing. It doesn't seem like it, but it is. Who knows, maybe he's getting somewhat worn down himself from all those huge hits.

 

[AdamJT13]

I'm with Larry on this one. When the ballcarrier is already into your secondary, you aren't supposed to avoid him and run by him simply because he isn't in your gap. You're supposed to take on the blocker or do whatever it takes to get the guy on the ground.

At least that's how I remember it in real time. It looked like the end of last year, when Roy uncharacteristically kept running up and running into blockers without even making an effort at the ballcarrier. Very strange.

And this is from as big a Roy supporter as anyone. But hey, there's nothing wrong with pointing out a bad play. It's not like I (or most people) are saying he's awful on every single play.

You know... This is Roy's sixth year of playing. It doesn't seem like it, but it is. Who knows, maybe he's getting somewhat worn down himself from all those huge hits.

The ballcarrier wasn't into the secondary, he was still in the backfield. We were in the nickel, and Roy was playing left-side linebacker, NOT safety. The tight end tried a kick-out block on Hatcher, the tackle blocked down, and the guard pulled into the gap. If Roy goes inside the guard, Ward could have gone outside the guard -- and we wouldn't have had any outside containment (although Hatcher did a nice job of coming back toward the line of scrimmage instead of getting forced upfield).

The camera angle from the sideline shows the hole where Ward could have gone outside. The slow-motion angle from behind the defense makes it look like Ward could only go inside, but I don't think that was the case -- and I don't see how Roy could have known which side of the guard Ward was going to run off at real-time speed.

Ideally, Roy would have taken on the lead blocker, maintained outside containment, then shucked him and gone inside to tackle Ward. But that's easier said than done when the blocker outweighs you by almost 100 pounds.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Just found that play, and you're right. Not even sure that is the one I had in mind real time, but maybe it was.

I do see what you're saying, but I guess on that play it's the general lack of aggressiveness he showed. It just doesn't look like the Roy we're used to. He just runs up and lets the guard push him several yards away. Frankly, it looked like he was tired on that play, and maybe he was. Both Ds were out there running around for a long time.

 

[MONT17]

The play that burned me up was on a run. Williams was filling the hole and took on the guard instead of going for the RB. The TV shot was from the endzone and I couldn't understand how he made that decision. Did anyone else see this play?

Old Roy would have made the play after a small gain... not sure what he was thinking thats was the worst game I have ever seen Roy play!!!

 

[TunaFan33]

Old Roy would have made the play after a small gain... not sure what he was thinking thats was the worst game I have ever seen Roy play!!!

Pretty much everyone looked lost out there-heck, even I got lost wondering what the heck was going on-even without Ellis down the stretch, we didn't look THAT bad.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

The play I and another poster were referring to happened in the 4th quarter with 11 minutes left. Ward made a run and Guard Snee bore down on Williams.

Not sure if the replay is the same angle that was shown originally during the live broadcast. Madden mentionsthe guard on Williams. The replay during NFL Network repeat tonight showed the behind angle (although I'm fairly certain there was a closer up shot in the original broadcast from behind).

LarryCanadian

This is the problem.

Try the game on mute. Williams suddenly looks a heckeuva lot better. Rewatch the NO/Indy game on mute also. Sanders doesn't look nearly as good once Madden's chin is off his curlies.

 

[superpunk]

This is the problem.

Try the game on mute. Williams suddenly looks a heckeuva lot better.

Exactly.

Also, if you want to engage in such an excercise, watch other games around the league - and watch those teams safeties with the critical eye people reserve for Roy Williams.