RUMOR: Ronde Barber for Greg Ellis

[DBoys]

I would not say this. Newman is very good but he is no Deion.

Why because he doesn't show boat? Deion could cover good but his tackling ability was horrible. Could he rush the passer? Nope. He was a good cover guy with great speed and a knack for returns.

Tell me what aspect of Deion's defensive game is better than Newman?

 

[bewareofdware]

since when do we need six dbs

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Why because he doesn't show boat? Deion could cover good but his tackling ability was horrible. Could he rush the passer? Nope. He was a good cover guy with great speed and a knack for returns.

Tell me what aspect of Deion's defensive game is better than Newman?

Deion was probably the best cover corner there ever was. He was quick enough to cover small receivers, fast enough to cover any receiver in the league and big enough to prevent big receivers from abusing him. Newman has issues with big receivers at this point in his career. Newman is a better tackler and better in run support but he can't cover like Deion did. To be brutally honest about this, this discussion starts and stops with the fact that Deion could and often would change the game with a pick. He could take it to the house but more importantly, he could make exceptional plays on the ball and come down with it. Newman can not do this.

EOS.

 

[ConcreteBoy]

Tnew's playing style reminds me more of Darrel Green. Both all world fast and just stayed with receivers 24/7. Tnew is more rock solid in his play, not a flashy player. He needs to step it up and make more interceptions to take it to the next level.

I think he is a future Pro Bowler.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Tnew's playing style reminds me more of Darrel Green. Both all world fast and just stayed with receivers 24/7. Tnew is more rock solid in his play, not a flashy player. He needs to step it up and make more interceptions to take it to the next level.

I think he is a future Pro Bowler.

He actually reminds me more of Troy Vincent. Physically, I agree with you. Darrell Green is a very good comparison physically but his playing style reminds me of Vincent. Troy Vincent, coming out of Wisconsin (I believe) was technically superb. Always in the right position, always great technique to go with fantastic athletic ability. Vincent was a bit bigger but same kind of skill sets. Vincent was always in position to make plays but he never did. He would cover a guy and take them out of a game but he couldn't make the big play. He and Newman (at least at this stage of Newman's career) are very simular to me.

 

[Canadian BoyzFan]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

 

[bfelt]

Ellis did not register a sack the last 5 games of 2006 while Demarcus Ware registered 4 sacks in the last 5 games of 2006. What does that tell you? Ellis will be an excellent 3-4 DE when he grows another 2 inches and adds another 30 pounds of muscle. When you play an excellent 4-3 DE (which Ellis is) sparingly in a 3-4 scheme, you'll get 8 sacks if you're lucky. Is it also worth the money you pay an Ellis to only play sparingly in a scheme not suited to exploit his talent? I don't think so.

When he grows another 2 inches? You realize that the guy's 6'6"? Do you want him to be a power forward or a 3-4 end?

I don't think Ronde Barber would play over Henry or Newman, and I don't think we're going to start trying Henry at FS all of the sudden. That means Barber would play over Glenn in the nickel. Is that improvement significant enough to merit losing Ellis in the nickel?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

When he grows another 2 inches? You realize that the guy's 6'6"? Do you want him to be a power forward or a 3-4 end?

I don't think Ronde Barber would play over Henry or Newman, and I don't think we're going to start trying Henry at FS all of the sudden. That means Barber would play over Glenn in the nickel. Is that improvement significant enough to merit losing Ellis in the nickel?

I don't know that I'd call it all of a sudden. Henry started at FS when he broke into the league so it could be done. I actually think Barber played safety as well so I don't think it's impossible to see one or the other play the position for us if this trade were actually to happen.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Tnew's playing style reminds me more of Darrel Green. Both all world fast and just stayed with receivers 24/7. Tnew is more rock solid in his play, not a flashy player. He needs to step it up and make more interceptions to take it to the next level.

I think he is a future Pro Bowler.

He should ALREADY be a pro bowler.

 

[DBoys]

Deion was probably the best cover corner there ever was. He was quick enough to cover small receivers, fast enough to cover any receiver in the league and big enough to prevent big receivers from abusing him. Newman has issues with big receivers at this point in his career. Newman is a better tackler and better in run support but he can't cover like Deion did. To be brutally honest about this, this discussion starts and stops with the fact that Deion could and often would change the game with a pick. He could take it to the house but more importantly, he could make exceptional plays on the ball and come down with it. Newman can not do this.

EOS.

What big receivers have abused him? What about him shutting down TO? Newman cannot cover small receivers what about him shutting down Smith? Deion is 6"1 195 and TNew is 5"11 195. How often did a pick by Deion change the game?

If you have 1 guy that can cover and another guy who is better in run support, tackling, and not to shabby covering who is more complete?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What big receivers have abused him? What about him shutting down TO? Newman cannot cover small receivers what about him shutting down Smith? Deion is 6"1 195 and TNew is 5"11 195. How often did a pick by Deion change the game?

If you have 1 guy that can cover and another guy who is better in run support, tackling, and not to shabby covering who is more complete?

Please stop this. Newman is not Deion. I'm not going to sit here and argue the point with you simply because you refuse to see what is obvious. Take a pole. Ask the question and see what the results indicate.

 

[Doomsday101]

Please stop this. Newman is not Deion. I'm not going to sit here and argue the point with you simply because you refuse to see what is obvious. Take a pole. Ask the question and see what the results indicate.

I have to agree with you. Deion was the best cover corner to play the game. I love having Newman and think he is a very good player on this team but when you get right down to it. Sanders was a very dangerous playmaker who anytime he touched the ball was a threat to take it the distance. Watching Deion bait QB's into throwing a pass to what looked to be a wide open receiver was a thing of beauty as Sanders would come out of no where and step in front of the pass. Anyone who wants to claim Deion was not a big hitter or was cocky I would agree but Sanders did bring his guy down and he backup his cockiness

 

[lspain1]

Anyone who wants to claim Deion was not a big hitter or was cocky I would agree but Sanders did bring his guy down and he backup his cockiness

Dooms, when it came to run support Sanders often looked really bad. His coverage skills were just so incredibly good, it didn't matter.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dooms, when it came to run support Sanders often looked really bad. His coverage skills were just so incredibly good, it didn't matter.

I think that this is a true statement early in his career. In the later part of his career, I think he became much better at it. He will never be considered a great tackler. Never punishing and probably never characterized as a great run support corner but I do beleive he got much better as the years went on.

 

[Doomsday101]

Dooms, when it came to run support Sanders often looked really bad. His coverage skills were just so incredibly good, it didn't matter.

If all Deion did was hold up the ball carrier until help arrived that was fine. No doubt Sanders was not going to take a man head on, but he was not giving up yardage by going low on a guy and tripping him up or getting help from others to bring the ball carrier down or shove the guy out of bounds. As you said what he did in coverage clearly made up for any lack of tackling ability he may have lacked.

 

[thor_01]

Tnew is by no means in the same league as Sanders at this point in his career and i doubt he will achieve that status, but i guess he could set his own standard..............

and as for Sanders being a one trick pony [coverage and return], hey if that is a trick no one else on the planet can do, that is a one trick pony i want to have..............

and how many times did he change the outcome of a game, for dallas almost 50% of the games he played in he contributed to victory by changing the momentum with an interception,punt return, kickoff return, or by taking their number one reciever out of the game during the final 2 minutes.........

any one comparing Tnew at this point to Sanders wouldnt know an elite corner if they fell on them...................

 

[DBoys]

Please stop this. Newman is not Deion. I'm not going to sit here and argue the point with you simply because you refuse to see what is obvious. Take a pole. Ask the question and see what the results indicate.

Did I say he was better than Deion? Did I say TNew is better than Deion in coverage? NOOOOOOOOOOO

As I said before if you have 1 guy who is superb in coverage and another guy who is good in coverage, run support, and tackling that player is more complete.

What was the comment I made?

Originally Posted by DBoys
I don't agree on the Barber > Newman.

Newman is the best corner in football in my opinion. He seriously reminds me of Deion but more complete.

I said he reminds me of Deion (frame, speed) but more complete (coverage, tackling, run support).

Now who is missing the obvious?

 

[DBoys]

Tnew is by no means in the same league as Sanders at this point in his career and i doubt he will achieve that status, but i guess he could set his own standard..............

and as for Sanders being a one trick pony [coverage and return], hey if that is a trick no one else on the planet can do, that is a one trick pony i want to have..............

and how many times did he change the outcome of a game, for dallas almost 50% of the games he played in he contributed to victory by changing the momentum with an interception,punt return, kickoff return, or by taking their number one reciever out of the game during the final 2 minutes.........

any one comparing Tnew at this point to Sanders wouldnt know an elite corner if they fell on them...................

So you deny the similarity in frame speed and elusiveness? When TNew returns punts he looks just like Deion.

I will say this the talent Newman is facing at WR is a lot better than when Deion played the game. Deion was so much better than the WR's he faced it wasn't even funny.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Did I say he was better than Deion? Did I say TNew is better than Deion in coverage? NOOOOOOOOOOO

As I said before if you have 1 guy who is superb in coverage and another guy who is good in coverage, run support, and tackling that player is more complete.

What was the comment I made?

Originally Posted by DBoys
I don't agree on the Barber > Newman.

Newman is the best corner in football in my opinion. He seriously reminds me of Deion but more complete.

I said he reminds me of Deion (frame, speed) but more complete (coverage, tackling, run support).

Now who is missing the obvious?

Aughh........ That would be you. I said several post ago, I did not wish to argue this rediculous point with you. If he reminds you of Deion, fine. You are the only one in that club. If he is more complete, fine, he can't catch a football to save his life but he is more complete in your mind. Stop wasting my time.

I said it before and I stand by it now. Newman is no Deion. Why don't you just leave it at that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So you deny the similarity in frame speed and elusiveness? When TNew returns punts he looks just like Deion.

I will say this the talent Newman is facing at WR is a lot better than when Deion played the game. Deion was so much better than the WR's he faced it wasn't even funny.

This is an ignorant comment.