Russell Wilson

RaZon

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If we play a little game that works like this....

1 point for

pro bowls
65 or better comp %
4000 yard seasons
30 or more TD
less than 12 INT
seasons where he started every game
seasons where he won a playoff game
over 400 rushing yards
100 or better passer rating

What QB in the history of the game would score more points than Wilson in their first nine seasons (all he has)

His first nine seasons are the best we have seen. He walked right in and took over, nobody has won more games in their first nine seasons.

Yes Tom Brady is THE GOAT but his first nine seasons don't compare to Wilsons. This he won more Superbowls doesn't work, Eli won more than Marino, see what I mean?


 

Aerolithe_Lion

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This is a flawed way of looking at it because the game changes every generation. 70% completion wasn’t a realistic accomplishment 30 years ago. 5k passing was done once ever as recently as 2004. Now there’s over 10 examples. Same thing with 30 TDs, that used to be a big feat, Joe Montana only ever did that once, Jim Kelly only ever did that once, Heck Tony Romo had the Cowboys first ever 30 TD season in 2007.

So the reason Russell has accumulated all these things over any other QBs is because he’s the youngest great QB to complete 9 seasons. Any of his contemporaries you’d expect to compete with him on this were drafted over a decade before him, they come from a different era: Peyton, Brady, Brees. Romo and Rodgers didn’t even play their first few years, and Mahomes is too young. So Russell just fits in the sweet spot of qualifiers here.

A better question is to compare to era: Instead of 65% passing, ask about how many top 5 seasons in their era. How many top 5 yardages seasons? How many top 5 TD seasons? That’s when the Unitas’s and Marino’s start popping up.
 

RaZon

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This is a flawed way of looking at it because the game changes every generation. 70% completion wasn’t a realistic accomplishment 30 years ago. 5k passing was done once ever as recently as 2004. Now there’s over 10 examples. Same thing with 30 TDs, that used to be a big feat, Joe Montana only ever did that once, Jim Kelly only ever did that once, Heck Tony Romo had the Cowboys first ever 30 TD season in 2007.

So the reason Russell has accumulated all these things over any other QBs is because he’s the youngest great QB to complete 9 seasons. Any of his contemporaries you’d expect to compete with him on this were drafted over a decade before him, they come from a different era: Peyton, Brady, Brees. Romo and Rodgers didn’t even play their first few years, and Mahomes is too young. So Russell just fits in the sweet spot of qualifiers here.

A better question is to compare to era: Instead of 65% passing, ask about how many top 5 seasons in their era. How many top 5 yardages seasons? How many top 5 TD seasons? That’s when the Unitas’s and Marino’s start popping up.

A lot of the Wilson story is the fact he didn't sit on a bench like those you mentioned who did. He started winning day one and nobody won more games.

7 pro bowls, second highest passer rating in history(those with at least 9 seasons) NFL record 4000/30/500 and did it twice. Third all time QB rushing. Will pass Joe Montana this season in career TD passes, entering top 20 all time.

So who did it better the first nine seasons of the career than Russell Wilson?

Who never missed a game, won a Superbowl, three times more TD than INT, who won more games?

Just look at pro bowls/100 passer ratings, who has more those first nine seasons?
 
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Aerolithe_Lion

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A lot of the Wilson story is the fact he didn't sit on a bench like those you mentioned who did. He started winning day one and nobody won more games.

7 pro bowls, second highest passer rating in history(those with at least 9 seasons) NFL record 4000/30/500 and did it twice. Third all time QB rushing. Will pass Joe Montana this season in career TD passes, entering top 20 all time.

So who did it better the first nine seasons of the career than Russell Wilson?

Who never missed a game, won a Superbowl, three times more TD than INT, who won more games?

Just look at pro bowls/100 passer ratings, who has more those first nine seasons?

Probably one, because Wilson is the only candidate who fits the 9 season requirement that was drafted since 2012.
 

RaZon

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Probably one, because Wilson is the only candidate who fits the 9 season requirement that was drafted since 2012.

This is about the first nine seasons of someones career, they all had that.

Brady's first nine seasons of his 21 is what is being talked about.
 

terra

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Stats only do not tell the whole story; and in this day of passing craziness in the NFL it says less and less.
The defense has been so handicapped by rule changes that QBs of today have it incredibly easy compared to Staubach, Unitas, etc.

Looking at a QB you must really factor in a lot of other data. Where he was playing; who was his coach; how good was the GM and front office. Which division did he play in? For example Tom Brady had a very weak division for almost his entire career.

I think now the best you can do is look at how he ranks versus the other passers of his time.

As regards stats, look at ones like who has the best stats in the 4th quarter; but at the same time you have to factor in how much of that is garbage time.

4th qtr stats when the game is within 7 points is a telling one. Third down conversions when the game is within 7 points..BUT THEN you have to compare defenses as well.


TDs, Completions rates, QB rating is not all that great a gauge of just how good a QB really is anymore.
 

kskboys

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Stats only do not tell the whole story; and in this day of passing craziness in the NFL it says less and less.
The defense has been so handicapped by rule changes that QBs of today have it incredibly easy compared to Staubach, Unitas, etc.

Looking at a QB you must really factor in a lot of other data. Where he was playing; who was his coach; how good was the GM and front office. Which division did he play in? For example Tom Brady had a very weak division for almost his entire career.

I think now the best you can do is look at how he ranks versus the other passers of his time.

As regards stats, look at ones like who has the best stats in the 4th quarter; but at the same time you have to factor in how much of that is garbage time.

4th qtr stats when the game is within 7 points is a telling one. Third down conversions when the game is within 7 points..BUT THEN you have to compare defenses as well.


TDs, Completions rates, QB rating is not all that great a gauge of just how good a QB really is anymore.
And then add in that he was added to a team w/ a superbowl ready D.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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This is about the first nine seasons of someones career, they all had that.

Brady's first nine seasons of his 21 is what is being talked about.

I know, but Brady was drafted way back in 2000, a full 12 years before Russell. The nfl was a very different time then, the rule changes, coaching trends, and overall player conditioning/performance was wildly different. Anything Russell or even Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill is doing now would be considered elite back then. Best of the best in a time with Peyton, Brady, Favre.

You can’t compare stats to different eras that don’t translate. You have to compare how they stacked up in their era, league leader rankings those seasons.

If you want to continue the question as you’re asking it, then Russell wins, because he’s the newest. It’s that simple. Soon Justin Herbert or Joe Burrow will beat Russell in those categories, then some guy for the Vikings who’s the 13th best QB in the NFL in 2031 will beat them, because you can’t compare eras like that, the NFL changes too much decade-to-decade.
 

RaZon

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Stats only do not tell the whole story; and in this day of passing craziness in the NFL it says less and less.
The defense has been so handicapped by rule changes that QBs of today have it incredibly easy compared to Staubach, Unitas, etc.

Looking at a QB you must really factor in a lot of other data. Where he was playing; who was his coach; how good was the GM and front office. Which division did he play in? For example Tom Brady had a very weak division for almost his entire career.

I think now the best you can do is look at how he ranks versus the other passers of his time.

As regards stats, look at ones like who has the best stats in the 4th quarter; but at the same time you have to factor in how much of that is garbage time.

4th qtr stats when the game is within 7 points is a telling one. Third down conversions when the game is within 7 points..BUT THEN you have to compare defenses as well.


TDs, Completions rates, QB rating is not all that great a gauge of just how good a QB really is anymore.

So who had a better first nine seasons than Russell Wilson?

He won the most games. He started the most games. His TD/INT ratio, His passer rating, all those pro bowls.

Tied the rookie TD record, first QB to have a 100 passer rating his first two seasons. Now add his rushing yards,

Who did it better?
 
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RaZon

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I know, but Brady was drafted way back in 2000, a full 12 years before Russell. The nfl was a very different time then, the rule changes, coaching trends, and overall player conditioning/performance was wildly different. Anything Russell or even Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill is doing now would be considered elite back then. Best of the best in a time with Peyton, Brady, Favre.

You can’t compare stats to different eras that don’t translate. You have to compare how they stacked up in their era, league leader rankings those seasons.

If you want to continue the question as you’re asking it, then Russell wins, because he’s the newest. It’s that simple. Soon Justin Herbert or Joe Burrow will beat Russell in those categories, then some guy for the Vikings who’s the 13th best QB in the NFL in 2031 will beat them, because you can’t compare eras like that, the NFL changes too much decade-to-decade.

Trust me all football fans get all that,

Nobody started more games, nobody won more games. His passer rating, his TD/INT ratio, his rushing yards, all those pro bowls. So who did it better their first nine seasons?
 

RaZon

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Career

65.1 comp%
267-81 td/int.........three times more TD's
0.....games missed
101.7 passer rating
Only 4000/30/500 in a season, 15 yards from doing it three times.

Who did it better their first nine seasons?

Hell, Johnny U had Hal of Famers to be Lenny Moore, Ray Berry, John Mackey to throw to, a HOFer Jim Parker his tackle.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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Trust me all football fans get all that,

Nobody started more games, nobody won more games. His passer rating, his TD/INT ratio, his rushing yards, all those pro bowls. So who did it better their first nine seasons?

Well if all football fans know that, then you know it’s not plausible for anyone else to do that. You’re using stats only possible in today’s game. His only competition then is… Ryan Tannehill, Cam Newton, QBs drafted in his era who’ve completed 9 seasons.

So yes, amongst those 3, he is the best
 

DFWJC

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If we play a little game that works like this....

1 point for

pro bowls
65 or better comp %
4000 yard seasons
30 or more TD
less than 12 INT
seasons where he started every game
seasons where he won a playoff game
over 400 rushing yards
100 or better passer rating

What QB in the history of the game would score more points than Wilson in their first nine seasons (all he has)

His first nine seasons are the best we have seen. He walked right in and took over, nobody has won more games in their first nine seasons.

Yes Tom Brady is THE GOAT but his first nine seasons don't compare to Wilsons. This he won more Superbowls doesn't work, Eli won more than Marino, see what I mean?



He's already had a great career if it ended this year.

You do really need to compare players to their peers in the same era.
But even then, he has shined.

Just being honest though---Things have steadily gotten easier for QBs every decade, and especially in the most recent one.
WAY easier to have a higher passer rating and TD to Int ratio.

He's still been great though
 

RaZon

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And then add in that he was added to a team w/ a superbowl ready D.

Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw played with 8 fellow HOFer
Well if all football fans know that, then you know it’s not plausible for anyone else to do that. You’re using stats only possible in today’s game. His only competition then is… Ryan Tannehill, Cam Newton, QBs drafted in his era who’ve completed 9 seasons.

So yes, amongst those 3, he is the best

Well I;ve seen Johnny U play, Montana at Notre Dame, Tarkenton, seen um all, and none were better than Russell Wilson. He had a better college career than any of them.

Bottom line is...

Walked in and started day one, has never missed a game, has won more games than anyone. And he's never had a great TE (prime) an All Pro WR.

Right now today he is among the top .3/4 QB;s in football and when he retires I expect to see him among the top 3/4 all time,
 

RaZon

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He's already had a great career if it ended this year.

You do really need to compare players to their peers in the same era.
But even then, he has shined.

Just being honest though---Things have steadily gotten easier for QBs every decade, and especially in the most recent one.
WAY easier to have a higher passer rating and TD to Int ratio.

He's still been great though

Starts, wins, TD/INT, pro bowls, NFLrecords, NFL firsts, rushing,....what difference does era make?
 

Hoofbite

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I've been a big Russell fan for a long time. Ever since the days when people were saying the only reason the Seahawks were competitive was because Russ was playing on a rookie contract that allowed more spending on other positions. He's a hell of a player and from all accounts that I've heard of he's a hell of a person. Hard not to like.

That said, he's not Tom Brady and he'll never be Tom Brady. There will never be another Tom Brady. I'm not a big Brady fan, but he's earned his spot in history. The guy has played in about 19% of ALL Super Bowl games. He's won't over 13% of them.
 

RaZon

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I've been a big Russell fan for a long time. Ever since the days when people were saying the only reason the Seahawks were competitive was because Russ was playing on a rookie contract that allowed more spending on other positions. He's a hell of a player and from all accounts that I've heard of he's a hell of a person. Hard not to like.

That said, he's not Tom Brady and he'll never be Tom Brady. There will never be another Tom Brady. I'm not a big Brady fan, but he's earned his spot in history. The guy has played in about 19% of ALL Super Bowl games. He's won't over 13% of them.

Well let's see....

Brady played in 14 games his first two seasons, Wilson 32
Brady had 1 65 comp%, Wilson 4
4000 yard seasons...2, Wilson 4
30 TD passes,,,1, Wilson 5
12 or more INT,,,,6, Wilson 3
100 passer rating...1, Wilson 6
pro bowls..4, Wilson 7
no need to talk rushing, all Wilson

As we can see Wilson had by far the better first nine seasons, let's see what happens next.

Right now Wilson has a better career comp% and passer rating than Brady,

It can;t be just about Superbowls, how many did Hall of Famers...

Dan Marino
Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Dan Fouts
Fran Tarkenton

win?
 
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Hoofbite

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Well let's see....

Brady played in 14 games his first two seasons, Wilson 32
Brady had 1 65 comp%, Wilson 4
4000 yard seasons...2, Wilson 4
30 TD passes,,,1, Wilson 5
12 or more INT,,,,6, Wilson 3
100 passer rating...1, Wilson 6
pro bowls..4, Wilson 7
no need to talk rushing, all Wilson

As we can see Wilson had by far the better first nine seasons, let's see what happens next.

Right now Wilson has a better career comp% and passer rating than Brady,

It can;t be just about Superbowls, how many did Hall of Famers...

Dan Marino
Jim Kelly
Warren Moon
Dan Fouts
Fran Tarkenton

win?

Brady was a backup his rookie year. You can't possibly knock him for being a backup. Backup QBs generally don't play many games.

Oh, and believe me, it's not just about Super Bowls. It's about the fact that he's #1 in passing TDs, soon to be #1 in passing yardage, #2 in completions (closing in on #1), and probably has more wins than any other QB. He is the greatest, and I don't care to look at a small fraction of a guy's career to make decisions about who is better. The body of work says that Tom is the greatest QB of all time. Wilson will be lucky to play in as many games as Tom. Consider this, if Wilson and Brady both play every game this year, Wilson will just be over 50% of the way to Brady's overall game total.

Wilson is a very good QB. He's just not Tom Brady. The fact that you can cite statistics from Wilson's 9-year career (which started 12 years later) and they're still so far behind is a testament to Brady's durability and productivity over time. You say, "it can't be just about Super Bowls", well why the hell not? We're not talking about Manning have a 2-0 advantage over Marino. 2-0 is nowhere near 7-1. We're talking about one guy winning more Super Bowls than everyone else. 2nd place is Charles Haley at 5. Besides that, nobody ever thought Manning was all that great and everyone knows Marino was. 10 times out of 10, people would take Marino, given equal circumstances. And 10 times out of 10, everyone would take 2000 Tom Brady over any other player in the history of the game. 20 years of great-to-elite QB play is the Holy Grail in the NFL.
 

RaZon

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I mentioned Wilson was 3rd all time rushing QB, try,,,,,4th, forgot Cunningham, how???

But only Vick, Newton, Cunningham and Wilson in that 4500 yard club for a QB.

Then there is that 100 passer rating for a career club, he's in that club.

Winning a SB in first attempt club, there he is.

Never missing a game in the career club, yep, there he is.

The 40 TD in a season club....bingo!

Leading the NFL in TD passes club ....yep!

Leading the NFL in passer rating club....there he is.

NFL records club....yep!

You take the playoff success, NFL records, NFL firsts, his rushing, his pro bowls, never missing a game, starting day one, who did it better, really who did it better?
 

RaZon

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Brady was a backup his rookie year. You can't possibly knock him for being a backup. Backup QBs generally don't play many games.

Oh, and believe me, it's not just about Super Bowls. It's about the fact that he's #1 in passing TDs, soon to be #1 in passing yardage, #2 in completions (closing in on #1), and probably has more wins than any other QB. He is the greatest, and I don't care to look at a small fraction of a guy's career to make decisions about who is better. The body of work says that Tom is the greatest QB of all time. Wilson will be lucky to play in as many games as Tom. Consider this, if Wilson and Brady both play every game this year, Wilson will just be over 50% of the way to Brady's overall game total.

Wilson is a very good QB. He's just not Tom Brady. The fact that you can cite statistics from Wilson's 9-year career (which started 12 years later) and they're still so far behind is a testament to Brady's durability and productivity over time. You say, "it can't be just about Super Bowls", well why the hell not? We're not talking about Manning have a 2-0 advantage over Marino. 2-0 is nowhere near 7-1. We're talking about one guy winning more Super Bowls than everyone else. 2nd place is Charles Haley at 5. Besides that, nobody ever thought Manning was all that great and everyone knows Marino was. 10 times out of 10, people would take Marino, given equal circumstances. And 10 times out of 10, everyone would take 2000 Tom Brady over any other player in the history of the game. 20 years of great-to-elite QB play is the Holy Grail in the NFL.

First off......Brady did sit on a bench, Wilson did start day one, simply a fact.

All we can realistically compare right now is those first nine seasons of the career, what Brady has done after that simply doesn't matter here. Yes Wilson was more revered those first nine seasons, not debatable.

Yes Tom Brady is THE GOAT no doubt about it, BUT......Russell Wilson had a better first nine seasons.

If it was..

Had to start day one, win a Superbowl, never miss a game, hold NFL records, who stands beside Russell Wilson, yep, nobody!
 
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