Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

[JoeKing]

The invasion is an excuse for Putin to gain convenient access to the Black Sea. Russia is a top five oil producer. Increasing oil shipments directly through the Mediterranean and the Suez Canal is a strong economic strategy. Putin is a dictator in every sense but he did not become a billionaire through conventional means either.

He already gained convenient access to the Black Sea when he annexed Crimea. No, I believe Putin's intention is far more sinister. He wants to reunite the former USSR territories.

 

[mattjames2010]

The invasion is an excuse for Putin to gain convenient access to the Black Sea. Russia is a top five oil producer. Increasing oil shipments directly through the Mediterranean and the Suez Canal is a strong economic strategy. Putin is a dictator in every sense but he did not become a billionaire through conventional means either.

I can't bring up the situations specifically, but it would be hypocritical for certain countries to criticize him for this when we can see them doing the same in recent history.

 

[JoeKing]

The triggers for WWIII are Estonia and Latvia. These are the most vulnerable NATO nations. A power-hungry dictator like Putin may find these nations irresistible while he is exercising his military strength on portions of Ukraine. NATO article 5 will be defended... an attack on one is an attack on all.

 

[DallasEast]

He already gained convenient access to the Black Sea when he annexed Crimea. No, I believe Putin's intention is far more sinister. He wants to reunite the former USSR territories.

No doubt. Putin wants the old USSR back. He owns the classic dictator mindset. However, it is common knowledge that he has gained enormous personal wealth through ruthless means. And he is a major player in Russia's fuel industry.

Here is a link to Russia's major oil refineries:

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=l...,94.2147416],[47.1824496,25.657530899999998]]

Crimea's annexation was a first step but the map illustrates just how much easier gaining transportation routes through Ukraine benefits Russia and Putin both much more strategically and economically.

 

[JoeKing]

Putin told the world in the lead-up to Thursday’s attacks on Ukraine that his operation aims to “denazify” Ukraine. But we know this is a lie as Ukraine is a country with a Jewish president who lost relatives in the Holocaust and who heads a Western-backed, democratically elected government. Do not buy Putin's justification for these current aggressions.

 

[JoeKing]

No doubt. Putin wants the old USSR back. He owns the classic dictator mindset. However, it is common knowledge that he has gained enormous personal wealth through ruthless means. And he is a major player in Russia fuel industry.

Here is a link to Russia's major oil refineries:

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=l...,94.2147416],[47.1824496,25.657530899999998]]

Crimea's annexation was a first step but the map illustrates just how much easier gaining transportation routes through Ukraine benefits Russia and Putin both much more strategically and economically.

I have no argument with that. But let's not think gaining access to the Black Sea is Putin's primary motivation to invade Ukraine. Although I think we can agree it's a tangential benefit to Putin.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Putin told the world in the lead-up to Thursday’s attacks on Ukraine that his operation aims to “denazify” Ukraine. But we know this is a lie as Ukraine is a country with a Jewish president who lost relatives in the Holocaust and who heads a Western-backed, democratically elected government. Do not buy Putin's justification for these current aggressions.

I don't think people are...

Not here.

Not in Ukraine.

And probably not in Russia.

 

[DallasEast]

I have no argument with that. But let's not think gaining access to the Black Sea is Putin's primary motivation to invade Ukraine. Although I think we can agree it's a tangential benefit to Putin.

I disagree in that I do not believe Putin's personal motivations are given proper consideration by everyone watching current events unfold. Putin is playing the Russian patriotism card. The warped altruistic propaganda does not carry the necessary weight he hopes world observers will buy into.

 

[JoeKing]

I disagree in that I do not believe Putin's personal motivations are given proper consideration by everyone watching current events unfold. Putin is playing the Russian patriotism card. The warped altruistic propaganda does not carry the necessary weight he hopes world observers will buy into.

You seem to have sympathy for the motivations of a mad man. His personal motivations do not matter and do not deserve "proper consideration". Students to history and Western leaders alike are aware of Putin's motivation. It's important to not give credit to Putin's excuses as you seem to be doing.

 

[Stash]

The parallel between Hitler and Putin is so close. Both saw their countries humiliated, Germany after WW1, and Russia after the fall of the USSR and the Berlin wall. And they both take that personally.

In the 30's, the world stood by and let Germany take Czechoslovakia thinking that was all they wanted. Putin wants it like it was in his good old KGB days and there is no one to stop him in in his own country. At least Khrushchev had the Politburo he had to deal with, Putin has an agenda and few to stand in his way. He is used to the old sword rattling on the Cold War days and is putting the Allies to the test. And he has already played the nuclear arsenal card.

I've been refamiliarizing myself with World War II history through documentaries and seminars and the parallels between Hitler, Putin, and some other modern day leaders is pretty scary. I can't help but feel that history is repeating itself. And not in a good way.

 

[DallasEast]

You seem to have sympathy for the motivations of a mad man. His personal motivations do not matter and do not deserve "proper consideration". Students to history and Western leaders alike are aware of Putin's motivation. It's important to not give credit to Putin's excuses as you seem to be doing.

"Sympathy." I have considered Putin a modern day Stalin after observing him within a year of his being installed as the Russian president. And I make the comparison without reservation in the literal historical sense.

A misunderstanding has developed. This topic has both short- and long-term worldwide importance but not enough for me to continue commenting on it.

 

[DFWJC]

the only real reason I can see is the ukraine produces a lot of grain, so putin may want control of that.
Otherwise he has to pay for it.

No ETHICAL excuse for Russia to just invade a sovereign nation like this, but here are some "other" reasons why Russia might do it

1. They do not want one of the largest neighboring countries joining NATO and aligning with potential Russian opponents....kind of like if Mexico were to ally with a USA opponent.
2. Ukraine depends heavily on nuclear energy and has 15 active nuclear reactors. They are considering nukes. A big negative for a hostile neighbor, but a big positive if said neighbor confiscates it.
3. Ukraine has some of the world's largest uranium reserves and massive amounts of other natural resources....including titanium, iron, oil, natural gas, and much more.
4. Putin is smart but power-hungry...and a twisted romantic regarding his old mother Russia. Wants to reunite it.

Just a footnote about Ukraine though. They are pretty much a ruthless dictatorship posing as a democracy. People trying to paint them as some innocent democracy have not been following this regime.
They shut down all news networks that criticize the leader and imprison dissenters.

Having said that, they are more democratic than Russia. There is NO rational or ethical excuse for Russia to invade them.

 

[JoeKing]

American leadership would be wise to not take their eye off Taiwan, while Russia invades Ukraine. This is the perfect diversion for China to act on their desires to physically claim Taiwan as their own.

 

[ryanbabs]

The critical part of this is can he keep the economic sanctions from affecting his people? If he can't, his risk is from within because I agree, most of those people just want to live their lives.

I think a big challenge he will also have, that Hitler did not, is the way society is different today with social media, cell phones, etc. He won’t be totally able to manipulate their media as Russian citizens can get information from other sources now and understand what he’s doing.

 

[JoeKing]

"Sympathy." I have considered Putin a modern day Stalin after observing him within a year of his being installed as the Russian president. And I make the comparison without reservation in the literal historical sense.

A misunderstanding has developed. This topic has both short- and long-term worldwide importance but not enough for me to continue commenting on it.

I hoped for a hardy denial by you for being a Putin sympathizer but instead, you continue to invoke history and a former Russian leader to give Putin's aggression legitimacy.

 

[CouchCoach]

While Putin publicly laments the fall of the USSR to get more on his side, he was an instrument in bringing that about. He is nothing more than a mafia don with his fellow opportunists and when he was with the KGB, they used the Russian mafia all the time. He was playing both sides so when the USSR fell, he was just fine and aided the mafia in the nuclear thefts.

It is rumored that where he lives is valued at more than 1B with the furnishings and artwork. That sound like a Communist?

Putin knew back then what people on the inside know and we've seen that in the world in the last two years. Times of chaos and confusion is the best time to show a profit.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I've been refamiliarizing myself with World War II history through documentaries and seminars and the parallels between Hitler, Putin, and some other modern day leaders is pretty scary. I can't help but feel that history is repeating itself. And not in a good way.

People don't change.

But circumstances do.

The world is far more connected than it was in WW2. Economies are far more intertwined.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I think a big challenge he will also have, that Hitler did not, is the way society is different today with social media, cell phones, etc. He won’t be totally able to manipulate their media as Russian citizens can get information from other sources now and understand what he’s doing.

Of course not.

It's not 1939.

 

[Stash]

People don't change.

But circumstances do.

The world is far more connected than it was in WW2. Economies are far more intertwined.

And that ‘connection’ includes technology and media as well. A guy like Putin can’t ‘hide’ his activities and motivations as easily as Hitler could back then.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

You seem to have sympathy for the motivations of a mad man. His personal motivations do not matter and do not deserve "proper consideration". Students to history and Western leaders alike are aware of Putin's motivation. It's important to not give credit to Putin's excuses as you seem to be doing.

He is clearly not showing sympathy for Putin. A blind man can see that.

Just because someone talks about history of why someone might think a certain way should not be turned into showing sympathy or giving excuses for that person.

Way too simplistic and lazy in using that argument against someone who is clearly not sympathetic.