Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

[nobody]

NATO is a paper tiger and has been since pretty much everyone but the U.S. severely cut most of their funding to it. They relied on the U.S. to be their protection and now we get to see the long-term effects of that.

They failed to take lessons from history and now we get to repeat it.

 

[rags747]

A lot depends on the will of the Ukrainians to fight. It’s a huge country and the citizens are armed.

They could make the war very costly in terms of lives and money for Putin.

Putin could have a difficult time maintaining his supply lines if the Ukrainian’s resistance is strong.

How are the citizens armed? I believe they turned their guns in.

 

[mattjames2010]

How are the citizens armed? I believe they turned their guns in.

Many of Ukraine's citizens aren't exactly anti-Russian or Putin either.

 

[Creeper]

Ukrainian separatists' wishes to reunite with Russia should no more be paid attention to than separatists' wishes in the US that want to secede from the proper United States. Those that wish to redraw borders and thus disrespect sovereign nations should be discouraged to act on their wishes, no matter the cost. Instead, in Ukraine, separatists' rhetoric is allowed, giving Russia the false impression that invasion of Ukraine would be accepted by the West.

I doubt Putin thinks the West will accept his invasion of Ukraine. I am more inclined to believe he thinks there is nothing the West will do about it. Sure there will be hemming and hawing, lots of complaining on Sunday morning talk shows, but in the end Putin will take Ukraine and sit on it for a couple of years then hold negotiations to undo the sanctions. Europe will welcome the talks because they will be starving for gas and grain. Putin will put some lackey in charge of Ukraine before he leaves. In 5 years no one will even think about Ukraine anymore and Putin knows it. Putin is not some maniac like Hitler. He is more cunning and probably more strategically minded.

 

[Creeper]

I searched for comments from the Russian people earlier and there were many who said they did not want war with Ukraine but some of those interviews were mixed in with Ukrainian immigrants in Russia so it is hard to know for sure how the majority of Russian people feel.

The types of sanctions imposed so far will ultimately hurt the people over time more than Putin and there are a lot of Russian people who do not care for him, but as to how many might stand up and say something remains to be seen.

For example, I fail to understand how sanctions against oligarchs, who do not control Putin or the miliary and likely maintain their positions and wealth because he allows it, are going to have any real impact on Putin or the Russian military.

The international community is going to have to get serious with sanctions on a banking and financial level to impact Putin and my guess is that he is counting on being done with the power grab (putting pro-Russian leaders in place) before that happens so he can say they are pulling out.

My best friend is Russian and he still has friends in Russia. He tells me the people there like Putin even though they know their freedoms are still curtailed there.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

This is funny. If it took this incident to catch the EU’s attention then they are more backward than we give them credit for. They were warned way back in 2018, but it was all poo poo’d as nonsense. As far as I’m concerned let the Europeans figure it out. They chose this route now they can deal with it.

The history of NATO is chock full of Europe indifference to the threat of the Soviet Union/Russia.

And really that sort of thing was happening even before the beginning of NATO.

European countries can be very indifferent to what's going on around/near them.

 

[Creeper]

I pray for cooler heads to prevail on all sides.

 

[RaZon]

Does Putin really think this is going to work? There will constantly be gangs plotting and planning how to make Russia pay for what they did. So Russians will be under constant attack.

Those Ukraines who lose a loved one will be out for revenge. The Patriots out for national pride, then ya have those who now have an excuse to simply shoot people, yippeee!!!

If this were a movie the plot,,,,,take Putin out.

A known Russian on the streets of the Ukraine,....good luck!

 

[terra]

Many of Ukraine's citizens aren't exactly anti-Russian or Putin either.

The majority are outside of the so called independent areas.

 

[Montanalo]

As someone that worked in the Former Soviet Union for many years, is married to a Russian and has family members still in Russian, here are a few observations:

Ukraine is far from being a free and democratic state. In fact, it is one of the most corrupt countries on earth, right up there with Russia and Nigeria (which I also worked for many years). In no way, though, am I justifying Putin's invasion. Rather, I am simply pointing out that support for Ukraine should be for humanitarian reasons and not some utopian idea that the west is protecting democracy.

Putin has used the excuse of "liberating" ethnic Russians from other FSU states to stage invasions. Look no further than Georgia in 2014. Given the fact that Stalin dispersed various ethnic groups (including Russians) throughout the FSU, you can bet this won't be last attempt annex other regions. One area to keep an eye on is Transnistria, a semi-autonomous in eastern Moldoa bordering on Ukraine. Transnistria is the Donbas of Moldova and in-fighting has been going on there for years. ... but you never hear about it

While Putin may have his eyes on recreating the FSU, make no mistake, this is about money. Many of Russia's oil and gas pipelines pass through Ukraine on their way to Europe and, in turn, Ukraine receives about $2B per year in tariffs.

Early in Putin's reign, many Russians viewed him much like Reagen with respect to restoring national respect and honor. Now, not so much.

This is a very complicated and doesn't lend itself to simple solutions.

 

[rags747]

As someone that worked in the Former Soviet Union for many years, is married to a Russian and has family members still in Russian, here are a few observations:

Ukraine is far from being a free and democratic state. In fact, it is one of the most corrupt countries on earth, right up there with Russia and Nigeria (which I also worked for many years). In no way, though, am I justifying Putin's invasion. Rather, I am simply pointing out that support for Ukraine should be for humanitarian reasons and not some utopian idea that the west is protecting democracy.

Putin has used the excuse of "liberating" ethnic Russians from other FSU states to stage invasions. Look no further than Georgia in 2014. Given the fact that Stalin dispersed various ethnic groups (including Russians) throughout the FSU, you can bet this won't be last attempt annex other regions. One area to keep an eye on is Transnistria, a semi-autonomous in eastern Moldoa bordering on Ukraine. Transnistria is the Donbas of Moldova and in-fighting has been going on there for years. ... but you never hear about it

While Putin may have his eyes on recreating the FSU, make no mistake, this is about money. Many of Russia's oil and gas pipelines pass through Ukraine on their way to Europe and, in turn, Ukraine receives about $2B per year in tariffs.

Early in Putin's reign, many Russians viewed him much like Reagen with respect to restoring national respect and honor. Now, not so much.

This is a very complicated and doesn't lend itself to simple solutions.

You in the oil and gas business?

 

[Montanalo]

You in the oil and gas business?

Yes... spent more than 30 years living and working outside the US.

 

[CouchCoach]

I doubt Putin thinks the West will accept his invasion of Ukraine. I am more inclined to believe he thinks there is nothing the West will do about it. Sure there will be hemming and hawing, lots of complaining on Sunday morning talk shows, but in the end Putin will take Ukraine and sit on it for a couple of years then hold negotiations to undo the sanctions. Europe will welcome the talks because they will be starving for gas and grain. Putin will put some lackey in charge of Ukraine before he leaves. In 5 years no one will even think about Ukraine anymore and Putin knows it. Putin is not some maniac like Hitler. He is more cunning and probably more strategically minded.

Just look at his background, you don't get as high up the KGB without being cunning.

He also has history to call upon. When Irag invaded Kuwait, what did the world do after they had taken what they wanted? Hey you Iraqis, you get back into your own country. And then he gets the world news of the exit out of Afghanistan as proof of the free world's commitment to freedom.

The world does nothing but talk and rattle sabers and he'll do what he wants to do until he's tired of doing it. And I do not underestimate the effect of what's he's doing on the fragile political frameworks in most of the free world. US, France, Germany, UK, Canada and Australia are more pissed at their own governments than they are at Russia.

I do think he will not let his military go all out against their comrades because he'll want to patch things up and have loyal subjects.

The world and Russia, the Olympics are a shining example of how the world doesn't hold Russia accountable for anything and they know it.

 

[CouchCoach]

I am glad I drink vodka made in other countries, including the good ole US of A. If not and that vodka pipeline got interrupted, me and ole Vlad would have to have words.

 

[CouchCoach]

And all over the world today, just as they've been doing since this became a thing, people are asking themselves "this affects me how"?

 

[JoeKing]

My best friend is Russian and he still has friends in Russia. He tells me the people there like Putin even though they know their freedoms are still curtailed there.

My wife is Ukrainian, born in Kyiv. Her family is proud to call themselves Ukrainian, not Russian. Ukrainians are fierce fighters so I'm curious to see if they are able to repel the Russian forces on their own. I'm hearing the Russians have taken heavy losses on the Western and Northern flanks of Ukraine.

 

[Creeper]

My wife is Ukrainian, born in Kyiv. Her family is proud to call themselves Ukrainian, not Russian. Ukrainians are fierce fighters so I'm curious to see if they are able to repel the Russian forces on their own. I'm hearing the Russians have taken heavy losses on the Western and Northern flanks of Ukraine.

I am sure the Ukraine military knows how to fight the Russians and is very familiar with them. The Russians military strategy has never been to worry about casualties. I expect heavy losses on both sides. It is a sad situation.

 

[rags747]

Yes... spent more than 30 years living and working outside the US.

Good for you, lucky guess on my part.

 

[rags]

Read the novel Black Ice, by Brad Thor. He goes into this topic quite a bit.

 

[Reality]