Signed by Cowboys Safety George Iloka signed

Sydla

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I think you underrate it primarily because your viewpoint is affected by his poor run defense. Go back and watch Heath's play as a free safety, either as a reserve or starter. His play there as a reserve in 2016 was the reason Dallas was comfortable letting Church go. (Again, mistakenly believing that it would somehow translate to SS.) Then when he flubbed at strong safety in 2017 and we moved him to free safety midway through the season, his play there was a highlight for the defense.

If you need some numbers to quantify it. In the first seven games of 2017, when Heath was starting at SS, he had 1 pass defense and no interceptions. After Dallas switched him and Byron, he had four passes defensed and all three of his interceptions.

Now, I don't want you to think PDs and interceptions tell the whole story because Iloka has two years where he had three interceptions. However, I think fans tend to look at those more for validation because they are not watching the safety on every play to see how his positioning in coverage forces the QB to hold to ball and throw it elsewhere. I think this aspect of Heath's game is undervalued.

If Iloka proves to be better in coverage than Heath, then I'll gladly eat my words. His play will be better defending the run, though, so that may be enough to make the move worthwhile.

No, it has nothing to do with his tackling issues. I read and trust analysts and others who have pointed out his flaws. Also, there are stats floating around, such as the Cowboys being 20th in the league at defending TEs, which partially falls on Heath.

He's a bad tackler and he's an average, and I being kind here, pass defender. There is nothing undervalued about him. He's a special teams ace and a backup S on an elite NFL team.
 

DFWJC

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Here is what ESPN says about this signing

George Lloka, S to Dallas

What it means: The Cowboys continue to fill holes in free agency with smart, low-price deals that should not impact their potential compensatory picks in 2020. Iloka has experience (79 starts in 99 games). He is durable, playing in every game for five of the past six seasons. He has position flexibility. In Cincinnati, he played mostly free safety, but he has the physical skills to play in the box, which is what the Cowboys were looking for in free agency. He also can play on every special teams' unit.

What's the risk: Like most of their signings, there is no risk. Signing Iloka does not take them out of the market for selecting a safety in next month's draft. Jeff Heath has been the starter the past two seasons with four interceptions. The coaches like Heath's dependability, but Iloka gives the Cowboys another veteran option to compete for the spot in camp.
 

Ekspozed

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Played mostly fs with ss skillset. Seems ideal fit for what the cowboys like (interchangeable).
Hopefully this puts heath as the 3rd safety not woods.
Draft a safety, let them all compete.
 

Toruk_Makto

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It's cute watching people still confused at how this team operates. They plug holes with affordable deals all across the roster that allows them to draft pretty pure.

The results... From a building a young and talented roster cannot be overstated.

The only thing left to do is find a qb.
 

Typhus

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He's not a world beater, but we did need some competition and depth at S pretty badly.

Anyone expecting him to be an All-Pro probably has brain damage, but I think he can be a decent vet signing at least. All good teams have them, and I don't know if we get that or not out of him, but we've typically not been very good at it.

Kam Chancellor was actually pretty slow, slower than Illoka even, but Richards was one of the guys that helped put him in a position to succeed. They have similar length, and both are pretty good against the run.

He's not Kam, obviously, but i'll be interested to see if we get anything out of him.

I was thinking the same as well, I like adding talent when we actually have a coach in place that might be able to utilize that added talent.
Richards is the DB coach, but Greg Jackson actually over sees the safeties,, I wont admit to knowing a lot about Jackson, but I hope that Richards has more influence.
 

Typhus

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It's cute watching people still confused at how this team operates. They plug holes with affordable deals all across the roster that allows them to draft pretty pure.

The results... From a building a young and talented roster cannot be overstated.

The only thing left to do is find a qb.

We are not much different than the 80 percent.

Most teams do the same.

A few like Cleveland with loads of Cap have the ability to sign anyone they so choose.

The difference will always come to your staff/coaches.

You can spend all the money you want in FA, but if your not set up right in those Depts, then your just wasting money.

Good coaches are as valuable as Good players, and Great Coaches are as good as turning good players into great players.

Hiring great coaches does not ding your cap, it only dings your ego, esp here in Dallas.

Jerry, Garrett, and Stephen, don't like being the dumb guys at the lunch table.

Its really that simple, its always been really that simple.
 

Ekspozed

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It's cute watching people still confused at how this team operates. They plug holes with affordable deals all across the roster that allows them to draft pretty pure.

The results... From a building a young and talented roster cannot be overstated.

The only thing left to do is find a qb.
Well makes sense to go into the draft having a backup plan at each position.
 

gimmesix

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No, it has nothing to do with his tackling issues. I read and trust analysts and others who have pointed out his flaws. Also, there are stats floating around, such as the Cowboys being 20th in the league at defending TEs, which partially falls on Heath.

He's a bad tackler and he's an average, and I being kind here, pass defender. There is nothing undervalued about him. He's a special teams ace and a backup S on an elite NFL team.

I trust my own analysis of Heath because I consider myself an objective observer. He's a better pass defender than the player he replaced (Barry Church), who was not as bad as many wanted to make him out to be because his football IQ helped him overcome some of his speed issues. I believe Church to be a good comparison to what I know of Iloka, so I don't think Iloka will be better than Heath in pass defense.

This is all comparative based. I'm not saying Heath is a great pass defender, only that I believe he's better than Iloka. We'll see how it turns out.
 

mattjames2010

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PFF also has Harrison Smith listed outside the Top 10. PFF is a terrible resource to backup an argument, particularly when you use it to claim a player is below average and it lists him as average.

So make an argument that Harrison Smith is better? Do it instead of running and disappearing for months when you, consistently, get blown out.

Secondly, he's ranked outside the top 80 as a STARTER. Do you understand he's behind role players? No one is claiming he shouldn't have a roster spot, the criticism is that he shouldn't start and he sucks as a starter. Because, well, he does. He's not being ranked within starter territory.

How as this difficult? What's going on here?
 

mattjames2010

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Because Kris Richard is one of the best DB coaches in the NFL and he is starting him. Your eye test doesn't matter.

He's starting him because we literally have nothing else (until now) of substance at safety. Use that brain.
 

Toruk_Makto

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We are not much different than the 80 percent.

Most teams do the same.

A few like Cleveland with loads of Cap have the ability to sign anyone they so choose.

The difference will always come to your staff/coaches.

You can spend all the money you want in FA, but if your not set up right in those Depts, then your just wasting money.

Good coaches are as valuable as Good players, and Great Coaches are as good as turning good players into great players.

Hiring great coaches does not ding your cap, it only dings your ego, esp here in Dallas.

Jerry, Garrett, and Stephen, don't like being the dumb guys at the lunch table.

Its really that simple, its always been really that simple.
If we are in the grouping of 80% of teams please list team wins since 2016. Where do we rank? Since 2014?

Who has drafted better than the Cowboys in that same time frame?

I'll wait... But I don't got all day.

That speaks to coaching.

Also, Garrett aside who is viewed probably rightly in middle tier of coaches... We've always had top and highly recruited coaching staff that was extremely well paid.
 
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TheRomoSexual

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So make an argument that Harrison Smith is better? Do it instead of running and disappearing for months when you, consistently, get blown out.

Secondly, he's ranked outside the top 80 as a STARTER. Do you understand he's behind role players? No one is claiming he shouldn't have a roster spot, the criticism is that he shouldn't start and he sucks as a starter. Because, well, he does. He's not being ranked within starter territory.

How as this difficult? What's going on here?

Consistently getting blown out? What are you even talking about? PFF skews data towards certain non-starting players because of good production during limited stats. Harrison Smith is the best safety in football, indisputably top 3 -- any ranking service that has outside the Top 10 is flawed. Period.

No one is saying that Heath is a great starter. He is average. Heck, your beloved PFF ranks him at average. And he's an average starter at, in my opinion, the least important position in modern football, so I'm not too concerned with it.

Your issue is you place WAY too much emphasis on the defensive backfield. You are starting to look silly in the Jalen Ramsey v. Zeke debate, especially since our cornerbacks are playing so well, so now you've switched to the safety position.
 

mattjames2010

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Consistently getting blown out? What are you even talking about? PFF skews data towards certain non-starting players because of good production during limited stats. Harrison Smith is the best safety in football, indisputably top 3 -- any ranking service that has outside the Top 10 is flawed. Period.

No one is saying that Heath is a great starter. He is average. Heck, your beloved PFF ranks him at average. And he's an average starter at, in my opinion, the least important position in modern football, so I'm not too concerned with it.

Your issue is you place WAY too much emphasis on the defensive backfield. You are starting to look silly in the Jalen Ramsey v. Zeke debate, especially since our cornerbacks are playing so well, so now you've switched to the safety position.

Again, YOU are not a source - if he was "top 3" this year - provide the data, provide the game film. Why can't you do this? PFF isn't shy about giving him credit, they rated him the best safety in the league in 2017. There is no bias there, chief.

> No one is saying that Heath is a great starter.

Yeah, because that would be stupid.

> As a starter he is average

AVERAGE STARTERS DO NOT MISS 18 TACKLES IN A SEASON! This isn't even getting into his coverage abilities. So, as a safety, he's not a good tackler and he doesn't have the skillset to be good in coverage. He's playing like a backup being forced into a starting role. If anything, he's an average backup.

Byron Jones played well for a season, by the way. Awuzie is inconsistent, Lewis can't get a starting spot, and Brown won't be on the team in a year. What are you talking about? Again, disappear and ice the bruises.
 

OmerV

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CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Doesn't excite the fans tho. Either you win in March or the season is lost.

That's nonsense. The Super Bowl winner is not automatically who signs the best players in March, or even necessarily who comes close to the best. Sometimes even teams that spend a lot in free agency don't fare well. Free agency is a tool to help the team, but it is not the sole tool, or a stand alone measure of who will succeed during the season. There actually is a reason they play the games.
 

Toruk_Makto

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That's nonsense. The Super Bowl winner is not automatically who signs the best players in March, or even necessarily who comes close to the best. Sometimes even teams that spend a lot in free agency don't fare well. Free agency is a tool to help the team, but it is not the sole tool, or a stand alone measure of who will succeed during the season. There actually is a reason they play the games.
Preaching to the choir. I'm even more negative... Big free agency spending (bit counting your own guys) means somewhere along talent acquisition you failed miserably.
 

Sydla

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Consistently getting blown out? What are you even talking about? PFF skews data towards certain non-starting players because of good production during limited stats. Harrison Smith is the best safety in football, indisputably top 3 -- any ranking service that has outside the Top 10 is flawed. Period.

No one is saying that Heath is a great starter. He is average. Heck, your beloved PFF ranks him at average. And he's an average starter at, in my opinion, the least important position in modern football, so I'm not too concerned with it.

Your issue is you place WAY too much emphasis on the defensive backfield. You are starting to look silly in the Jalen Ramsey v. Zeke debate, especially since our cornerbacks are playing so well, so now you've switched to the safety position.

Heath is not an average starter.

He's below average.

And FWIW, one of our CBs is playing real well - Jones. Awuzie was hit or miss and must improve.
 

TheRomoSexual

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Again, YOU are not a source - if he was "top 3" this year - provide the data, provide the game film. Why can't you do this? PFF isn't shy about giving him credit, they rated him the best safety in the league in 2017. There is no bias there, chief.

> No one is saying that Heath is a great starter.

Yeah, because that would be stupid.

> As a starter he is average

AVERAGE STARTERS DO NOT MISS 18 TACKLES IN A SEASON! This isn't even getting into his coverage abilities. So, as a safety, he's not a good tackler and he doesn't have the skillset to be good in coverage. He's playing like a backup being forced into a starting role. If anything, he's an average backup.

Byron Jones played well for a season, by the way. Awuzie is inconsistent, Lewis can't get a starting spot, and Brown won't be on the team in a year. What are you talking about? Again, disappear and ice the bruises.

Oh, my poor boy. If you don't think Harrison Smith is the best safety in football, then you don't understand football. But here's a decent "source" for my point:

https://apnews.com/d58900e2194d42d08d26c77c0c4d8312

"The AP voters overwhelmingly agreed. Smith received 97 points in a 10-points-to-one-point system, garnering eight of 10 first-place votes. He finished second on one ballot and third on the other to easily outdistance the New York Giants’ Landon Collins, who had 69 points."
 
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