Safety rankings of playoff teams?

pacboyX

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Plain and simple, where would you put Church among playoff caliber safeties?
 

Doomsday101

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Plain and simple, where would you put Church among playoff caliber safeties?

Don't know where I would rank him but I do think the team can win with him at safety. Now if Dallas can upgrade at his position then great I'm always in favor of improving when and where we can.
 

pacboyX

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Don't know where I would rank him but I do think the team can win with him at safety. Now if Dallas can upgrade at his position then great I'm always in favor of improving when and where we can.

Against elite QBs he has done nothing to show he can be relied on. Yeah he tackles rbs but in the passing game is he even on the field?
 

Doomsday101

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Against elite QBs he has done nothing to show he can be relied on. Yeah he tackles rbs but in the passing game is he even on the field?

And without a pass rush the secondary will continue to struggle. If I had to pick one area that is in need and can have a bigger impact on the secondary as a whole it is the pass rush or lack of.

I'm all in favor of upgrading as I said however that will not do a single thing is we can't do a better job of getting after the QB. You talk of elite QB? Give an elite QB time and he will pick you apart no matter who is in your secondary
 

DenCWBY

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I like Church and think he's a keeper. He tackles well and he stays on the field. He does get caught in a few situations where he's out of place and he's no speedster against some wide outs however, he wraps up and tackles and is not afraid to get into the fray of the action which I like most coming from that position. He makes significant plays here and there (not in abundance) but I think his presence and experience helps this team. It's a very hard position to play (given all the rules) and I'm comparing him to what I see at the position with the rest of the NFL. I feel he's above average and certainly there are other positions on this defense that needs upgrading. Just my take.
 

jobberone

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IDK, but Church is an above average safety. He can be upgraded. I'd like to see a cover safety added to the mix who still can tackle. Everyone needs to tackle.
 

DFWJC

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We need a true playmaking free safety. Church would better be able to hold his own.
 

DallasEast

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And without a pass rush the secondary will continue to struggle. If I had to pick one area that is in need and can have a bigger impact on the secondary as a whole it is the pass rush or lack of.

I'm all in favor of upgrading as I said however that will not do a single thing is we can't do a better job of getting after the QB. You talk of elite QB? Give an elite QB time and he will pick you apart no matter who is in your secondary
The term elite quarterback is not even necessary. For example, our pass rush was completely nonexistent against the Bears during the 2013 season. Josh McCown had a field day that game. McCown is certainly not an elite quarterback. Any competent quarterback will enjoy success passing when he does not worry about pressures or sacks.
 

Doomsday101

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The term elite quarterback is not even necessary. For example, our pass rush was completely nonexistent against the Bears during the 2013 season. Josh McCown had a field day that game. McCown is certainly not an elite quarterback. Any competent quarterback will enjoy success passing when he does not worry about pressures or sacks.

I agree, in the NFL you give these QB time they will hurt you. We can't have DB chasing WR around with no rush coming but then that is pretty much the case for all teams. The rules are such that the DB's are already at a great disadvantage and then to not have a pass rush is a killer. Marinelli spoke about this a couple of days ago we need an improved pass rush without it we will continue to struggle in the secondary.
 

DoctorChicken

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We need a true playmaking free safety. Church would better be able to hold his own.

Wilcox and Church are both fine at SS. We need a FS with coverage skills though.

Of course, upgrading the pass-rush is still the #1 priority.
 

John813

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IDK, but Church is an above average safety. He can be upgraded. I'd like to see a cover safety added to the mix who still can tackle. Everyone needs to tackle.

My thoughts as well.

If we went into the season with Church wouldn't mind that. I also wouldn't mind drafting another safety to give Church and Wilcox motivation to improve.
 

jobberone

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My thoughts as well.

If we went into the season with Church wouldn't mind that. I also wouldn't mind drafting another safety to give Church and Wilcox motivation to improve.

They've been looking. They just get sidetracked with bigger holes and other teams are plucking them off the vine before we get there.
 

mahoneybill

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The term elite quarterback is not even necessary. For example, our pass rush was completely nonexistent against the Bears during the 2013 season. Josh McCown had a field day that game. McCown is certainly not an elite quarterback. Any competent quarterback will enjoy success passing when he does not worry about pressures or sacks.

Agree. Not exactly a fan of Ron Jaworski, but his test is if the QB has 2.5 seconds to throw. In that case he feels 70-80 % of on the roster QB's will complete the pass as it's hard under todays rules for the DB's to cover the receivers.
 

Idgit

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Playoff-caliber? Or the Safeties in this year's playoffs? What are we being asked to rank, here?

Church is still an underrated player. Our secondary, in general, is a bit underrated. Far and away the biggest problem we have defensively is still with the DL where could legitimately upgrade multiple players.

At the same time, we could use the offseason to upgrade either CB or S in Dallas. If it's at S, I think that player needs to be a guy with range and ball skills who probably ends up stepping in for Wilcox. At CB, we could look to upgrade Carr's position, but that would be expensive in FA and would take hitting on a first round pick if we end up going that direction in the draft. I'd rather see us trade down and spend the resources on the DL, renegotiate Carr's deal, and add a CB or S in the 2nd-4th rounds to compete for snaps across the board at those positions and to give us more depth in the event of an injury or declining play. The real problem we have is finding a play maker who can rush, immediately, and signing him affordabley.
 

DFWJC

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Agree. Not exactly a fan of Ron Jaworski, but his test is if the QB has 2.5 seconds to throw. In that case he feels 70-80 % of on the roster QB's will complete the pass as it's hard under todays rules for the DB's to cover the receivers.

Good old Ron--with the unimaginably bad career 72.8 QB rating and 53% completion rate.

lol...
I know that does not discredit (or confirm) knowledge of the game, but I just had to get in a jab at an ex-Eagle. :)
 

mahoneybill

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Good old Ron--with the unimaginably bad career 72.8 QB rating and 53% completion rate.

lol...
I know that does not discredit (or confirm) knowledge of the game, but I just had to get in a jab at an ex-Eagle. :)

Agree in all regards but when I watch games I count - one thousand 1, one thousand 2, and notice how Brady/Manning/ Rodgers get the ball out before two in most cases.

Jaworski was another QB who benefited from some better D play ....
 

perrykemp

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Plain and simple, where would you put Church among playoff caliber safeties?

I'd day the Cowboys starting two safeties where no better than 3rd in the NFC behind Seattle and GB.

Seattle obviously has the best set of safeties in the entire NFL. They are a large reason why they are in the Superbowl.

Packers's Ha Ha Clinton Dix and Morgan Burnett are a pretty good set of safeties as well.

With the Cowboys, Church is decent. Wilcox is decent with potential to get better.
 

Idgit

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I'd day the Cowboys starting two safeties where no better than 3rd in the NFC behind Seattle and GB.

Seattle obviously has the best set of safeties in the entire NFL. They are a large reason why they are in the Superbowl.

Packers's Ha Ha Clinton Dix and Morgan Burnett are a pretty good set of safeties as well.

With the Cowboys, Church is decent. Wilcox is decent with potential to get better.

Wilcox is a guy I've really been hoping would have a trajectory that took him from 'ok' to 'game changer.' He's flashed at times, and has areas of his game where I think he's getting there, but hasn't really taken that huge step I was hoping for.

As it is, I like our Ss ok now, after hating them for years. I want to see them upgraded, but I struggle to see how to do it easily. You almost have to take a shot at a talented guy early in the draft and hope you hit if you're going to do it, but I hate the idea of that because there are so many other positions where a much safer upgrade makes more sense.

I can't tell you how much I envy the S play on that SEA defense. Chancellor, in particular, is suppose to have been the lesser player there for years, but I think that guy is just dynamite. I'd kill for a hit like that from a middle rounder at some point.
 
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