Safety rankings of playoff teams?

[jobberone]

Wilcox is a guy I've really been hoping would have a trajectory that took him from 'ok' to 'game changer.' He's flashed at times, and has areas of his game where I think he's getting there, but hasn't really taken that huge step I was hoping for.

As it is, I like our Ss ok now, after hating them for years. I want to see them upgraded, but I struggle to see how to do it easily. You almost have to take a shot at a talented guy early in the draft and hope you hit if you're going to do it, but I hate the idea of that because there are so many other positions where a much safer upgrade makes more sense.

I can't tell you how much I envy the S play on that SEA defense. Chancellor, in particular, is suppose to have been the lesser player there for years, but I think that guy is just dynamite. I'd kill for a hit like that from a middle rounder at some point.

Safety in the first round is one of the safest picks a team can make outside OL. I don't remember the numbers for safety outside the middle of the first though. You can hit on safeties in the bottom third and day 2 but pretty sure the numbers fall.

I've always liked moving older big corners to FS. They know the game and have the range, take the angles, know when to defend vs trying to make a big play, and can tackle. Now we have kids trained at safety in college although I think you can still do it.

My order of priorities NOW is edge rusher, DT, DB, then LB. I feel the same way as @Idgit about spending acquisition coins on a safety now. But if one falls near 27 who is top 20 talent and no edge rusher or DT is there then I'd pull the string. That's a pretty safe pick. But it does not fill a current hole as I think Church and Wilcox are serviceable+.

You cannot overlook offense either. They should stick to their board AMAP.

 

[Idgit]

Safety in the first round is one of the safest picks a team can make outside OL. I don't remember the numbers for safety outside the middle of the first though. You can hit on safeties in the bottom third and day 2 but pretty sure the numbers fall.

I've always liked moving older big corners to FS. They know the game and have the range, take the angles, know when to defend vs trying to make a big play, and can tackle. Now we have kids trained at safety in college although I think you can still do it.

My order of priorities NOW is edge rusher, DT, DB, then LB. I feel the same way as @Idgit about spending acquisition coins on a safety now. But if one falls near 27 who is top 20 talent and no edge rusher or DT is there then I'd pull the string. That's a pretty safe pick. But it does not fill a current hole as I think Church and Wilcox are serviceable+.

You cannot overlook offense either. They should stick to their board AMAP.

That much is true. If you can ask yourself 'is this guy a clear upgrade over Wilcox?' and the answer is 'yes,' I'm all for it.

And I agree: we tend to fill positions of need with stop-gaps in free agency to free ourselves up in the draft. There are very few teams who would not have been dramatically improved with the addition of Zack Martin or Odell Beckham, for example. I'd much rather see that than see us reaching for a position of need on an already-solid roster.

 

[endersdragon]

I think both Church and Wilcox are fine, not great, but fine. The problem is they both play like SS and neither of them really can be that premier ball-hawking safety that we need.

 

[endersdragon]

Safety in the first round is one of the safest picks a team can make outside OL. I don't remember the numbers for safety outside the middle of the first though. You can hit on safeties in the bottom third and day 2 but pretty sure the numbers fall.

I've always liked moving older big corners to FS. They know the game and have the range, take the angles, know when to defend vs trying to make a big play, and can tackle. Now we have kids trained at safety in college although I think you can still do it.

My order of priorities NOW is edge rusher, DT, DB, then LB. I feel the same way as @Idgit about spending acquisition coins on a safety now. But if one falls near 27 who is top 20 talent and no edge rusher or DT is there then I'd pull the string. That's a pretty safe pick. But it does not fill a current hole as I think Church and Wilcox are serviceable+.

You cannot overlook offense either. They should stick to their board AMAP.

Problem is, that basically is Landon Collins... and I don't see him dropping anywhere near that far when there is only 1 first round talent safety in the draft. I would much rather see us get a guy like Cody Prewitt in the 3rd round.

 

[jobberone]

Problem is, that basically is Landon Collins... and I don't see him dropping anywhere near that far when there is only 1 first round talent safety in the draft. I would much rather see us get a guy like Cody Prewitt in the 3rd round.

27 is tough. This is where you really have to be on your game. Look at the players NE drafts and you get an idea of what you can and need to do from that part of the draft esp the first.

You can find a player on the second day that can contribute at safety right away. The problem again is you have to get someone better than Wilcox and/or Church if you're looking at immediate contribution beyond SPs and STs. If you take a longer view then you may make better moves there.

We have a window and I think it is no more than 4 years and generally teams change so much over that time that window can be only 1-2 years. Not sure what to do with that info.

 

[endersdragon]

27 is tough. This is where you really have to be on your game. Look at the players NE drafts and you get an idea of what you can and need to do from that part of the draft esp the first.

You can find a player on the second day that can contribute at safety right away. The problem again is you have to get someone better than Wilcox and/or Church if you're looking at immediate contribution beyond SPs and STs. If you take a longer view then you may make better moves there.

We have a window and I think it is no more than 4 years and generally teams change so much over that time that window can be only 1-2 years. Not sure what to do with that info.

New England frequently trades their pick as well... I think might be our best bet.

 

[Crown Royal]

Wilcox is a guy I've really been hoping would have a trajectory that took him from 'ok' to 'game changer.' He's flashed at times, and has areas of his game where I think he's getting there, but hasn't really taken that huge step I was hoping for.

As it is, I like our Ss ok now, after hating them for years. I want to see them upgraded, but I struggle to see how to do it easily. You almost have to take a shot at a talented guy early in the draft and hope you hit if you're going to do it, but I hate the idea of that because there are so many other positions where a much safer upgrade makes more sense.

I can't tell you how much I envy the S play on that SEA defense. Chancellor, in particular, is suppose to have been the lesser player there for years, but I think that guy is just dynamite. I'd kill for a hit like that from a middle rounder at some point.

It took Church three years to even get the chance to start, so Wilcox had a little bit of time. BUT - the time is running out. 2015 is the show-me year. No more excuses - that's a position that you don't put a bunch of risk into. His ability to track and tackle when playing deep is just hurting us too bad.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Against elite QBs he has done nothing to show he can be relied on. Yeah he tackles rbs but in the passing game is he even on the field?

You can say that for like 8-10 guys on this defense, so while I'd welcome a better safety, replacing Church would not be my first priority.

 

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

Personally I'd like to see both Church and Wilcox playing at SS and new blood brought in at FS. Maybe a vet free-agent like Louis Delmas, Jeron Johnson, or Devin McCourty and then a draft pick on top of that. I haven't heard much talk about Kurtis Drummond from Michigan State but he's an outstanding player with good size and instincts who is very well coached. He'd possibly be available in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

 

[Fmart322]

Normally I would agree with you about that but don't anymore. Just look at the Eagles front 7, they give great pressure on QB's but because their CB/Safety play was so awful they missed the playoffs completely. Now, the Cowboys secondary isn't that bad, thankfully, but we never to get some more help there. Imo.

And without a pass rush the secondary will continue to struggle. If I had to pick one area that is in need and can have a bigger impact on the secondary as a whole it is the pass rush or lack of.

I'm all in favor of upgrading as I said however that will not do a single thing is we can't do a better job of getting after the QB. You talk of elite QB? Give an elite QB time and he will pick you apart no matter who is in your secondary

 

[Doomsday101]

Normally I would agree with you about that but don't anymore. Just look at the Eagles front 7, they give great pressure on QB's but because their CB/Safety play was so awful they missed the playoffs completely. Now, the Cowboys secondary isn't that bad, thankfully, but we never to get some more help there. Imo.

I don't disagree but I think the Cowboys secondary is not as bad as some feel. Many of the sacks we did get were coverage sacks few came about because of intense pressure. When we blitzed we could not get there leaving the DB in a bad situation. Just my opinion but I think most ints come about because the QB is unable to set and make an accurate throw, you get QB throwing off the back foot or unable to step into the throw or just unable to pick up the coverage underneath due to the pressure

 

[Idgit]

It took Church three years to even get the chance to start, so Wilcox had a little bit of time. BUT - the time is running out. 2015 is the show-me year. No more excuses - that's a position that you don't put a bunch of risk into. His ability to track and tackle when playing deep is just hurting us too bad.

At least he's getting better each season in specific areas of his game. I really like him tackling in space when the ball carrier is in front of him. I like how he fills at the LoS on screen plays. He's got range and can be in the right spots in coverage sometimes. Again, especially when he's able to look into the backfield some. It makes sense that the things he struggles with still would be the hardest things to get down, too, given his position change.

At the same time, though, our S play is very average. There's room for improvement, even it its at S3 where you get a guy to come in and push the starters more than Heath is realistically going to do.

 

[casmith07]

Plain and simple, where would you put Church among playoff caliber safeties?

Loaded question, since our problems were with the pass rush, not the secondary, in the playoffs.

 

[casmith07]

Revisionist history is a boon to those who praise Chancellor. Once upon a time, on this very site, he was a do-nothing head-hunter who couldn't cover a dead body.

 

[casmith07]

I don't disagree but I think the Cowboys secondary is not as bad as some feel. Many of the sacks we did get were coverage sacks few came about because of intense pressure. When we blitzed we could not get there leaving the DB in a bad situation. Just my opinion but I think most ints come about because the QB is unable to set and make an accurate throw, you get QB throwing off the back foot or unable to step into the throw or just unable to pick up the coverage underneath due to the pressure

It isn't. It's the sexy thing to ***** about, though, because everything looks obvious when you're following the ball on broadcast television.

Bottom line: the reason we lost in the playoffs was our inability to get to a quarterback playing on one leg. It's a wonder that guys we cast off as trash (Adam Jones, Terence Newman) suddenly became effective players in Cincinnati.

Thankfully, I think this coaching staff and scouting staff understands that the game starts on the line of scrimmage. Gone are the days of Wade Phillips' staff reading CowboysZone to get the bright idea to start Alan Ball at free safety.

 

[Doomsday101]

It isn't. It's the sexy thing to ***** about, though, because everything looks obvious when you're following the ball on broadcast television.

Bottom line: the reason we lost in the playoffs was our inability to get to a quarterback playing on one leg. It's a wonder that guys we cast off as trash (Adam Jones, Terence Newman) suddenly became effective players in Cincinnati.

Thankfully, I think this coaching staff and scouting staff understands that the game starts on the line of scrimmage. Gone are the days of Wade Phillips' staff reading CowboysZone to get the bright idea to start Alan Ball at free safety.

Marinelli mentioned the other day the need for a pass rush, I think that was the weakest area. I commend the job this defense did, they played hard and hustled and never quite. They made some big stops and had some big takeaways but if there was one area that hurt us was inconsistent pass rush and the inability to bring heat on the blitz.

 

[Idgit]

Marinelli mentioned the other day the need for a pass rush, I think that was the weakest area. I commend the job this defense did, they played hard and hustled and never quite. They made some big stops and had some big takeaways but if there was one area that hurt us was inconsistent pass rush and the inability to bring heat on the blitz.

Marinelli is actually quite a fan of this secondary. Including the CBs. Other DCs, too, during the season commented on them being a lot better than advertised. The guy in CHI, in particular, I remember being pretty effusive about the Dallas secondary and about Barry Church, in particular.

I think you're right that the emphasis is going to be in bringing in more talented DLs than the guys we've got. That really shouldn't be too hard, either. It's a fairly low bar.

 

[Doomsday101]

Marinelli is actually quite a fan of this secondary. Including the CBs. Other DCs, too, during the season commented on them being a lot better than advertised. The guy in CHI, in particular, I remember being pretty effusive about the Dallas secondary and about Barry Church, in particular.

I think you're right that the emphasis is going to be in bringing in more talented DLs than the guys we've got. That really shouldn't be too hard, either. It's a fairly low bar.

Yeah and something we go into the off season not knowing. DLaw, showed some signs to end the season but will he be the pass rusher we need. A couple of guys who did not play this season in Whaley and Gardner. Whaley is a guy I really like and reports I saw on Gardner is coming along very well. of course not willing to put eggs in their basket. I think there is a decent chance at getting a guy like Nick Fairly.

 

[pacboyX]

I don't disagree but I think the Cowboys secondary is not as bad as some feel. Many of the sacks we did get were coverage sacks few came about because of intense pressure. When we blitzed we could not get there leaving the DB in a bad situation. Just my opinion but I think most ints come about because the QB is unable to set and make an accurate throw, you get QB throwing off the back foot or unable to step into the throw or just unable to pick up the coverage underneath due to the pressure

I didnt see most completions being due to too much time, really we play more prevent so many qbs were taking the open te or slot receivers to beat us.

 

[jobberone]

New England frequently trades their pick as well... I think might be our best bet.

I think we will have to be on the clock before knowing what we will do but with Jerry trades up and down are possible.