Safety... The Defensive Equivalent of the Fading Role of Fullback

I disagree to an extent. Fullbacks are not used much anymore because not only do many tailbacks/offensive schemes not have a big necessity for them, but many running backs don't like that lead blocker. I think that's different from safeties.

I think the problem with going to corners at safety is the tackling takes a nosedive. I think the type of safety is different now. Probably more along the lines like a hybrid safety/corner. Or you could go with more of a corner at FS and a good tackler who is competent in short zone coverage at SS.

I wasn't upset with not signing Rolle because he seems like a solid safety and not a guy worth being paid the highest salary in safety history. We need to get more playmaking out of safety. We don't get enough interceptions and in large part that's due to the safety play.





3JACK




3JACK
 
Four;3299518 said:
Once all the teams convert their defenses to cover the pass then teams will start running again.

That is a fact and pass first league has affected every position on the field.
 
Hostile;3299539 said:
I think we need OL in the 1st and CB more than Safety. JMO.

Depends on the OL available. I'd take Iupati and Chris Cook in 1 and 2, if it fell that way. But after Berry and Thomas, if Allen isn't there at #59, I'm not sure there's a safety I'd select over a corner of similar value.
 
Agree, safety is now the eguivalent of a larger corner these days. The days of the 230 pound bone jarring, run stuffing safety are in the rear view mirror for the most part.
 
Hostile;3299475 said:
The NFL evolves all the time. Occasionally it will run in cycles where something from the past comes back, and then it goes away again gradually. Like the 46 Defense. It was huge, then defunct, now it is returning in bits and pieces and will likely fade away again. We'll see the same with the Wildcat Offenses.

We've all noted that Fullback is a position in the NFL just isn't the same as it used to be. There are very few Moose Johnston's anymore. Lorenzo Neal had as much to do with LaDanian Tomlinson's success as Moose did for Emmitt, but FBs like that are not high on priority lists much any more.

Safeties are the Defensive equivalent. They are going to gradually fade from importance. Mainly because very few of them can cover like a CB and many of them are going to follow the path of Rod Woodson from CB to Safety.

That is why I really wasn't upset when Antrel Rolle signed in New York with the Giants. Like Woodson, he is a CB who has moved to Safety. The money he commanded is the number one reason why I am not upset we missed out on him. I feel like we could move Terence Newman to Safety just like we have Alan Ball and be fine. Scandrick is more than capable of being a starting LCB.

That is also why I am not all that high on Bethea, or Atogwe, or any other option where we have to pay a team. The Cardinals got a great deal on Kerry Rhodes. I doubt you will see a huge drop off in production from Rolle to Rhodes for them. So they ended up with a bargain. Yet I still wouldn't want to pay the prices they did.

It is also why I don't want to pay the price of a Safety with our 1st or 2nd round pick. Not even for Earl Thomas if he is there. I just see it as an unnecessary luxury anymore. It is rare to find an Ed Reed or a Troy Palumalu and Earl Thomas may be that rare breed, but relying on them to stay healthy because the drop off if they don't is so severe that it just doesn't make it seem worthwhile.

Pass Offenses have become so sophisticated that coverage skills outweigh tackling skills at Safety. That is why a phenomenal athlete like Taylor Mays is being looked at more as a LB. That is why a Roy Williams could go from difference maker to liability in such a shirt time. The position is evolving and teams have to evolve with it.

I think you will see a time coming where teams play with only one Safety, who acts like a Center Fielder looking to cover to either side and the middle. You hardly even see Safety blitzes any more, but Corner blitzes still get called.

Dallas wanted to be ahead of this curve when they talked about using Scandrick in the "Star" position. In reality this was merely a recycling of the way Tom Landry used to use Cornell Green. Cornell remains one of the more under appreciated unsung heroes in the History of our team. He was a tremendous difference maker for a long time. I believe Newman, Ball or Scandrick could handle that role just fine if need be.

When Ball got drafted he weighed 172 pounds. I doubt he is 6 feet tall. I remember joking that he needed to step away from the salad bar. I doubt that today he is pushing 200. Yet he played Safety for us in 2009 and did a fairly good job of it. Why? Because his coverage skills as a CB benefited the way the NFL is evolving.

For this reason, I put more importance on CB in the 2010 Draft than I would Safety. Yeah, I'd take Earl Thomas if he falls to us. You don't pass on rare ability. But I don't think Safety is as big a need as people assume. Coverage ability is, which is why I think we will keep Sensabaugh ultimately but might let Ken Hamlin go.

If we want more INTs, and I think we all do, there are two ways that will happen. More pressure, and I think that arrives with a healthy Ware and a ready Spencer, and better coverage.

I've been posting something like this for three years now
 
I was going to post something along the lines of this today and Hos brings up a very good point. The Choice/Cromartie trade rumor revealed the Cowboys offseason plan in my opinion. Seeing as how Dallas has 3 good CB's already, either Dallas was considering the option of converting Cromartie to FS or Dallas was going to convert either Newman or Scandrick to FS and allow Cromartie to be the 3rd CB.

The Cowboys flirted with the possibility of moving Scandrick to FS last offseason and I think that may be the plan again. There aren't many options in free agency this year for a CB to FS convert candidate. Therefor, I think this equation will be solved in the draft.

I think the Cowboys will draft another CB early in the draft; possibly in round 2-3, and have that CB be our Nickle CB option with Scandrick moving to FS part time. If this is the plan, CB Jerome Murphy of South Florida would be my pick.
 
VACowboy;3299569 said:
Depends on the OL available. I'd take Iupati and Chris Cook in 1 and 2, if it fell that way. But after Berry and Thomas, if Allen isn't there at #59, I'm not sure there's a safety I'd select over a corner of similar value.

I'm with you.

If Iupati, for example, isn't there. And there is no OL we want in Round 1, assuming we can't trade out of the pick, I have no problem in taking a worthy CB.

C Cook would be great in Round 2 as well. And that's why I think the Cowboys are interested in him. He has the coverage ability and size to play multiple positions in the Secondary.

But I'm betting he's not going to last until our Round 2 pick. I think other teams appreciate his versatility as well.

I do agree that the Saftety position is evolving.

I'd rather draft a CB with solid coverage abilities who isn't afraid to tackle than a one dimensional safety.
 
You still have to be somewhat physical to be a safety and someone like Newman would never stay healthy.

I like EarlnThomas because he has the most range of any safety in this class and is still young and bulked up some already.
 
Hostile;3299475 said:
The NFL evolves all the time. Occasionally it will run in cycles where something from the past comes back, and then it goes away again gradually. Like the 46 Defense. It was huge, then defunct, now it is returning in bits and pieces and will likely fade away again. We'll see the same with the Wildcat Offenses.

We've all noted that Fullback is a position in the NFL just isn't the same as it used to be. There are very few Moose Johnston's anymore. Lorenzo Neal had as much to do with LaDanian Tomlinson's success as Moose did for Emmitt, but FBs like that are not high on priority lists much any more.

Safeties are the Defensive equivalent. They are going to gradually fade from importance. Mainly because very few of them can cover like a CB and many of them are going to follow the path of Rod Woodson from CB to Safety.

That is why I really wasn't upset when Antrel Rolle signed in New York with the Giants. Like Woodson, he is a CB who has moved to Safety. The money he commanded is the number one reason why I am not upset we missed out on him. I feel like we could move Terence Newman to Safety just like we have Alan Ball and be fine. Scandrick is more than capable of being a starting LCB.

That is also why I am not all that high on Bethea, or Atogwe, or any other option where we have to pay a team. The Cardinals got a great deal on Kerry Rhodes. I doubt you will see a huge drop off in production from Rolle to Rhodes for them. So they ended up with a bargain. Yet I still wouldn't want to pay the prices they did.

It is also why I don't want to pay the price of a Safety with our 1st or 2nd round pick. Not even for Earl Thomas if he is there. I just see it as an unnecessary luxury anymore. It is rare to find an Ed Reed or a Troy Palumalu and Earl Thomas may be that rare breed, but relying on them to stay healthy because the drop off if they don't is so severe that it just doesn't make it seem worthwhile.

Pass Offenses have become so sophisticated that coverage skills outweigh tackling skills at Safety. That is why a phenomenal athlete like Taylor Mays is being looked at more as a LB. That is why a Roy Williams could go from difference maker to liability in such a shirt time. The position is evolving and teams have to evolve with it.

I think you will see a time coming where teams play with only one Safety, who acts like a Center Fielder looking to cover to either side and the middle. You hardly even see Safety blitzes any more, but Corner blitzes still get called.

Dallas wanted to be ahead of this curve when they talked about using Scandrick in the "Star" position. In reality this was merely a recycling of the way Tom Landry used to use Cornell Green. Cornell remains one of the more under appreciated unsung heroes in the History of our team. He was a tremendous difference maker for a long time. I believe Newman, Ball or Scandrick could handle that role just fine if need be.

When Ball got drafted he weighed 172 pounds. I doubt he is 6 feet tall. I remember joking that he needed to step away from the salad bar. I doubt that today he is pushing 200. Yet he played Safety for us in 2009 and did a fairly good job of it. Why? Because his coverage skills as a CB benefited the way the NFL is evolving.

For this reason, I put more importance on CB in the 2010 Draft than I would Safety. Yeah, I'd take Earl Thomas if he falls to us. You don't pass on rare ability. But I don't think Safety is as big a need as people assume. Coverage ability is, which is why I think we will keep Sensabaugh ultimately but might let Ken Hamlin go.

If we want more INTs, and I think we all do, there are two ways that will happen. More pressure, and I think that arrives with a healthy Ware and a ready Spencer, and better coverage.

Wow, couldnt disagree more there. The premium now for defeses is safeties who can cover and make plays in space. The old in the box downhill safeties are probably a thing of the past, but finding guys who are good enough to cover slot receivers, TE's, RB's flanked out and still being good enough to tackle in the open field is a key for defensive flexibility.

You mention better coverage ability, but instincts play a huge role in ball skills for DB's, especially safeties. Some guys have a knack for "angles" and playing the ball in the air, and this is where the guys we have (especially Hamlin) struggle. Some CB's can move to safety and play it effectively, but some have no clue how to play in
"space", and some would be huge liabilities vs the run.
 
JonJon;3299598 said:
I was going to post something along the lines of this today and Hos brings up a very good point. The Choice/Cromartie trade rumor revealed the Cowboys offseason plan in my opinion. Seeing as how Dallas has 3 good CB's already, either Dallas was considering the option of converting Cromartie to FS or Dallas was going to convert either Newman or Scandrick to FS and allow Cromartie to be the 3rd CB.

The Cowboys flirted with the possibility of moving Scandrick to FS last offseason and I think that may be the plan again. There aren't many options in free agency this year for a CB to FS convert candidate. Therefor, I think this equation will be solved in the draft.

I think the Cowboys will draft another CB early in the draft; possibly in round 2-3, and have that CB be our Nickle CB option with Scandrick moving to FS part time. If this is the plan, CB Jerome Murphy of South Florida would be my pick.

I've been pimping Jerome Murphy as a possible option at FS. He's got the corner skills, the aggression, speed and size.
 
[youtube]
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d***a5pwjGM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d***a5pwjGM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
[/youtube]

It's not easy to see, but watch his backpedal and his footwork. Textbook. This guy is the definition of what Hostile is talking about - a guy that could play either CB or FS, but because of coverage ability and team needs plays FS.

Not to mention he can hit.
 
dbair1967;3299614 said:
Wow, couldnt disagree more there. The premium now for defeses is safeties who can cover and make plays in space. The old in the box downhill safeties are probably a thing of the past, but finding guys who are good enough to cover slot receivers, TE's, RB's flanked out and still being good enough to tackle in the open field is a key for defensive flexibility.

You mention better coverage ability, but instincts play a huge role in ball skills for DB's, especially safeties. Some guys have a knack for "angles" and playing the ball in the air, and this is where the guys we have (especially Hamlin) struggle. Some CB's can move to safety and play it effectively, but some have no clue how to play in
"space", and some would be huge liabilities vs the run.

Agreed. Smarts and instincts are HUGE for safeties. Being able to diagnose and break down a play is a huge advantage. Not every DB is capable of doing this.
 
CATCH17;3299608 said:
You still have to be somewhat physical to be a safety and someone like Newman would never stay healthy.

I like EarlnThomas because he has the most range of any safety in this class and is still young and bulked up some already.

I agree that safeties need a slightly larger build to withstand more tackling. They are still a little different than CB's.
 
VACowboy;3299536 said:
This why my pick at #27 is Kyle Wilson. People say, "No way. Safety is a bigger need than corner." And my answer is, this day and age, I'd rather have a ballhawking cover guy like Wilson at "safety" than any "safety" we can sign in FA or will have a chance to draft.

by the way, vacowboy, i just read that wilson also had 3 punt returns for tds in 2008. he could potentially play cb, the "star" position (he's plenty strong with 25 reps at combine and weight around 190+ lbs), and do punt returns. not too shabby.
 
So if safety is becoming a position of coverage and speed...then so does the WR position to combat it. Reason why Dallas needs to add more speed at WR and i’m not talking about more UDFAs.
 
Now when I use to put on here that we Should move Newman to FS, there were some stupid posts in response to my suggestion.

I just felt that Newman would make a better FS than he has been a CB lately and when we drafted Scandrick and Jenkins, I really felt that we should have moved Newman to FS and let Hamlin go after his fisrt disappointing season, but money was an issue then.
 
I disagree. I dont think safety is fading, I think it is evolving into one of the most important positions on the field.
 
I think the trend you will see will be to convert CB's, especially larger ones, to FS and move FS's to SS. The trend is a little like what you see with OL's. The most agile college LT's remain at the position in the pros. Those LT's that are not so nimble get moved to guard or right tackle. The player who is an in-the-box SS is a little like the college ROT that can only play that position. Both positions are devalued in today's game.
 
Woods;3299691 said:
by the way, vacowboy, i just read that wilson also had 3 punt returns for tds in 2008. he could potentially play cb, the "star" position (he's plenty strong with 25 reps at combine and weight around 190+ lbs), and do punt returns. not too shabby.

Ya. He's a stud, a really fast one.
 
In my dreams, I would do what Hostile is talking about and accomplish the following for the starting defense in 2010.

LCB - Orlando Scandrick
RCB - Mike Jenkins
NB - Kyle Wilson (R)
FS - Terence Newman
SS - Gerald Sensabaugh/Ken Hamlin

What I could live with, if Sensabaugh ends up playing elsewhere:

LCB - Terence Newman
RCB - Mike Jenkins
NB - Orlando Scandrick
FS - Alan Ball
SS - Ken Hamlin

What will likely happen this year?

Newman, Jenkins, Scandrick & Ball at the Corners
Ken Hamlin and Gerald Sensabaugh at Safety
 
Back
Top