Saints Bounty Program **Payton suspended 1 year / Williams indefinitely**

kramskoi

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AbeBeta;4472175 said:
The teams was told specifically to terminate the program. They did not.

They are not being penalized only for having a bounty program but for continuing it after being told to stop.

That's the sanity piece. Not the junk you are spouting

There is a reason for the "gate" suffix in matters such as these. It's always the cover-up that gets you. Goodell mentions that they were lied to by the Saints, in what looks like more than one occasion...Payton tried to "get the ducks in a row" regarding covering up the program...that in itself probably had more to do with his one year suspension...it is one thing to run the program, be told to stop, continue it and then try to cover it up...simply running the program and ending it would have given Goodell less cause to hit them like he did. Detillier is railing right now here in Louisiana. They even confronted Payton with an email concerning a $5000 bounty on Rodgers according to NFL.com
 

cajuncocoa

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This is a lesson about unfiltered arrogance and what happens when men and organizations lose themselves after first finding themselves.


The New Orleans Saints have gone from the toast of a nation to just toast. It has been a long, strange trip from post-Katrina national heroes to one of the more historic disgraces in recent NFL history. And the Saints' fall from grace can be traced back to one man: Sean Payton.


Payton being suspended for the season is the strongest message NFL commissioner Roger Goodell could have sent, and it's well-deserved.


"The NFL's extensive investigation established the existence of an active bounty program on the Saints during the 2009, 2010, and 2011 seasons in violation of league...
More: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/...-ringleader-payton-and-theyre-right-on-target
 

Beast_from_East

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ABQCOWBOY;4472121 said:
I think your point is well taken but I can't see how it is in the NFL's best interests to punish a franchise so severely that it is very likely to cause harmful economic damages to that franchise.

I think that this is what the punishment will do. I don't think that targeting players is going to stop because the fact of the matter is that the league has set it up so that the game is so heavily weighted towards passing, the defense is so limited in what they can do and the QB is so vital to winning that it's to big an advantage if you can take the opposing teams QB off the field. Players and teams are going to continue to try and take QBs off the field. You can't prevent it IMO. Now, you've set up a precedents that is going to have some long lasting effects and they are stiff. I wonder what everybody would think if it were the Cowboys on the other end of this penalty? It very well could be the case at some point.

This is very harsh.

If the Cowboys were dumb enough to actively support a bounty system and basically flipped off the league when told to stop, then Garrett can have a 1 year vacation.

If you cant do the time, dont do the crime.
 

kramskoi

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Beast_from_East;4473123 said:
If the Cowboys were dumb enough to actively support a bounty system and basically flipped off the league when told to stop, then Garrett can have a 1 year vacation.

If you cant do the time, dont do the crime.

...and then try to cover it up to boot. WWL in New Orleans is on fire tonight...from what I've heard, the NFL had "many" pages of information on the Saints, particularly email...I think that Loomis should have been given a year off as well...poor character on all three involved...they knew better...

I'm right with you on the Cowboys doing this and getting caught...
 

Beast_from_East

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Yakuza Rich;4472139 said:
SpyGate was worse.

It hurt the integrity of the game.

A bounty rewards a prize if you injure a player. So, if you injured a player with a *legal hit*, you are rewarded the prize.

Is it in 'bad taste?' Sure. But, the fact is that the NFL has no evidence of the Saints going after players illegal nor an illegal hit injuring a player. The only player that was injured due to a Saints player's hit was Kurt Warner, who was hit with a legal block after an interception. So legal that Warner didn't think the bounty was a big deal.



YR


Wrong............the league has stated that it has evidence that 4 QBs were targets of bounties, "Kurt Warner, Brett Favre (who actually was injured on a high-low), Aaron Rogers, and Cam Newton".


Just the fact that a bounty was placed on these QBs is the crime itself, the player didnt have to be offically injured (although Favre was injured and both players fined by the league for the high low).

What do you think those 50,000 documents the league collected was for, building paper airplanes?
 

Beast_from_East

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AbeBeta;4472175 said:
The teams was told specifically to terminate the program. They did not.

They are not being penalized only for having a bounty program but for continuing it after being told to stop.

That's the sanity piece. Not the junk you are spouting

Exactly, this is really not rocket science here. Not sure why some posters are having such a hard time understanding this.
 

Beast_from_East

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The30YardSlant;4472267 said:
As long as it's done legally, yes. You've actually convinced yourself that when Ray Lewis hits someone hard over the middle he isnt doing it as hard as he possibly can in order to inflict as much pain as possible?

Your problem is that you have apparently missed the entire point of the big hit. THE PURPOSE IS MAKE THE OTHER GUY HURT AND SCARE THE **** OUT OF HIM. The day this came out there were MULTIPLE players on ESPN, including our own Darren Woodson, who echoed my sentiments EXACTLY. Those guys believe their job was to incapacitate an opposing offense by whatever legal means necessary, and you're damn right they tried to hurt players within the confines of the rules.

Again, think what you want. It isnt what players think and it isnt how defense is played.

I guess our entire defense needs to take up soccer as you say, because they have not scared the %^&* out of anybody in about 4 seasons.
 

Beast_from_East

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The30YardSlant;4472437 said:
First of all, not calling them "bounties" would be a good start.

Punishing one team in a league where everyone does it won't stop anything, and the Saints werent actively cheating. The worst thing the Saints did from a rules standpoint was giving out unauthorized bonuses.

Should there be some punishment? Sure, because they broke financial rules. That isnt what this is about though, it's about creating a precedent...and the punishment certainly shouldnt be worse than that which cheating draws.

As far as concussions, it's football. Improve the helmet technology all you want and make the equipment as safe as possible, but don't change the rules to try and prevent people from getting hurt in a full contact sport. And as for the lawsuits, simple: Have every single rookie who signs a contract read the risks and sign a document saying the NFL is not liable for any injuries they suffer.


And the NFLPA is just going to go along with this?


Right..................:lmao2:
 

Beast_from_East

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Brian_C82;4472772 said:
Players routinely try to inflict injury. It's part of the game.

But you cant have the team "making it rain" in the lockerrom promoting it.


Why is this so hard for people to understand?
 

skinsscalper

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Beast_from_East;4473168 said:
[/b]

And the NFLPA is just going to go along with this?


Right..................:lmao2:

Agreed. Some people let their thoughts go to a whole new level of stupid sometimes.
 

Dday22t

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Always amazes me what people claim to not know was wrong once they’re caught. If it wasn’t wrong – why lie about it.
 

DWhite Fan

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M'Kevon;4472767 said:
No. The defenses were tougher and physical in general. Oakland's D was known for trying to intentionally injure players.
Lynn Swann would agree with you, LOL! I remember one of the Raiders 70s d-backs (I think it was Jack) said, "Running threw the Raiders secondary was like running through a forest at night. You don't know what the h*** you gonna run into!"
:laugh2:
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Beast_from_East;4473142 said:
Wrong............the league has stated that it has evidence that 4 QBs were targets of bounties, "Kurt Warner, Brett Favre (who actually was injured on a high-low), Aaron Rogers, and Cam Newton".


Just the fact that a bounty was placed on these QBs is the crime itself, the player didnt have to be offically injured (although Favre was injured and both players fined by the league for the high low).

What do you think those 50,000 documents the league collected was for, building paper airplanes?

Targeted and actually doing something illegal are different.
 

cajuncocoa

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The Times-Picayune
New Orleans Saints' attitude contributed to the punishment handed down by the NFL
03/22/12 8:20AM
Jeff Duncan, The Times-Picayune

"It's our universe."

Anyone who's dealt with the New Orleans Saints in the Sean Payton era has heard the phrase more than once. It's a favorite of Saints executives, who often directed it to the uninitiated or unwitting who dared question their authority.

It's one thing to act this way to the media or opponents; it's altogether different to do so toward your boss.

In essence that's what Payton did with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and league officials when they accused the Saints of running a bounty program.

Essentially, the Saints told Goodell: "It's our universe" and to go away.

Payton and the Saints now will pay the price for this hubris.

The same arrogance which helped propel Payton and the Saints to unprecedented heights on the field the past six years helped undercut them off of it. They became corrupted by their own perceived omnipotence, and their greatest strength became their most debilitating weakness.

"A combination of elements made this matter particularly unusual and egregious," Goodell said in a damning report released by the league Wednesday. "When there is targeting of players for injury and cash rewards over a three-year period, the involvement of the coaching staff, and three years of denials and willful disrespect of the rules, a strong and lasting message must be sent that such conduct is totally unacceptable and has no place in the game."

The outcry from many Saints fans in the aftermath of the announcement was predictable. It also was disturbingly misguided.

Don't blame Goodell or former Saints tight end Jeremy Shockey or the media for this. Blame Payton, General Manager Mickey Loomis, former New Orleans defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and linebackers coach Joe Vitt.

It was their actions -- or lack thereof -- that led to the historic discipline meted out by the league. It was their lack of institutional control that produced the biggest scandal in league history. Their cavalier attitudes and carelessness exacerbated the problem and undoubtedly increased the discipline against the team. Their insouciance left the league with no recourse and has caused irreparable short- and long-term damage to the organization.

This wasn't a mistake. A mistake is a typo in a league memorandum. This was conspiracy, institutional insubordination of the highest order.

The bounty program violated Goodell's well-documented mission to improve player safety in the NFL and potentially exposed the league to more lawsuits from players. But the cover-up by the team's front office disrespected Goodell and his seat of power. From the outset of the investigation, the Saints acted with blatant disregard for the NFL office.

"Clearly we were lied to," Goodell said on the NFL Network. "... We were misled ... there were denials. Meanwhile, there continued to be risk to our players and to the integrity of our game. It called for a very significant and clear message."

The investigation also exposed one of the best-kept secrets of Payton's tenure: His dysfunctional relationship with Williams. The two maintained a professional working relationship, but Payton never trusted his defensive coordinator. That was clear in the NFL report, which said one of Vitt's primary roles "was to monitor the activity of Coach Williams. This was based on the direction of Coach Payton, who apparently had less than full confidence in Coach Williams."

If the reports are true that the Saints' front office tried to paint Williams as a rogue vigilante to the league office during the investigation, you can rest assured Williams did likewise to them behind closed doors.

Again, Payton's imperiousness came back to haunt him. The one-year suspension will cost him at least $6 million in salary. The damage it has caused the organization is incalculable.

The Saints undoubtedly will win their share of games this season. They remain one of the most talented teams in the league, and Wednesday's events provide suitable motivational fuel. But in a league where the competitive margin among teams is razor thin, the sanctions are a fatal blow to their title hopes.

The loss of Payton for a full year, Loomis for half a season and Vitt for six games will be insurmountable.

In addition to the suspensions, next month's NFL draft has essentially been rendered irrelevant. With zero picks in the first two rounds, the Saints have little hope of landing an impact player to bolster their foundering defense.

When the bounty scandal first broke, numerous reports -- citing NFL sources -- said the penalties would be "unprecedented." They were.

The sanctions announced by the NFL were the worst administered to a head coach and general manager. You have to go back to 1963 when then commissioner Pete Rozelle suspended players Alex Karras and Paul Hornung for an entire season for betting on football games and associating with known gamblers to find something remotely comparable.

The Saints can appeal the penalties, but the appeal must be made to the commissioner's office. Essentially, Goodell is judge, jury, executioner and appellate judge on this one. Their chances at a successful appeal are less than completing a Hail Mary pass.

Goodell said the harsh discipline was needed to send a loud message to the rest of the league.

"We need to change the culture," he said. "This is another step in changing that culture; this type of behavior is not going to be tolerated."

The Saints and Payton would be wise to do likewise on Airline Drive.

It's not the Saints' universe after all, it's Roger Goodell's.

Welcome to the new world order.


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http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/03/new_orleans_saints_now_feel_th.html
 

The30YardSlant

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On could just as easily argue that Goodell is incredibly petty and arrogant for handing down a worse punishment just because someone had the audacity to not tell him everything.
 

alpha

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ABQCOWBOY;4474225 said:
Targeted and actually doing something illegal are different.

During the NFC Championship game between the Saints and Packers, Favre was repeatedly hit late, hit low, driven into the ground, and hit after handing the ball off to the RB. You see this once or twice during the course of a game you might chalk it up to mistakes and/or over aggressiveness. But when you see this same pattern of behavior happen as often as it did in a single game, and couple that with the knowledge and admission of the bounty incentive policy, how much are you willing to chalk up to coincidence?
 
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