CFZ Salary cap myths and other misunderstandings of player pay

[kskboys]

And every single time a top 10 player comes up for an extension they end up at being the highest paid or right at it. Asking for anything less is asking for a player to take less because the owner hired people who don’t know accounting to run the books.

Not accurate. Players are not all the same.

 

[kskboys]

Well….1. Brady’s famous “team friendly” deals in NE are completely misleading IMO. The way Belechick drafted and managed that team from 2004-2017 was brilliant. He drafted loads of cheap but talented defensive talent and cut or traded several really good players to avoid paying them. Brady completely trusted that FO to give him a great D year after year. When he left for Tampa he took market money.

2. If the Cowboys were any good at building a top notch roster and I was a QB here, I would sign a 5 year deal. But they suck at it. So why should any QB who wants a ring think signing here at top market money this FO will support them or even know how.

If I were Dak, I would play out this year and move on. He’s not a top 5 QB but he’s good enough to win some playoff games with the right supporting cast. Why would any QB think, “Yeah I will risk losing my value to help this team get more talent“ when this FO couldn’t do it when Dak and Zeke were still in rookie deals.

No, they're not. Brady took a market value contract all of 1 time, and it was renegotiated shortly thereafter. They are not misleading. Bellychickens' D, however, was a huge reason they stayed in super bowl contention, I agree.

I don't believe so. Seems to me like Brady took a 2 year deal from TB for 25 mil/season.

Don't disagree about Dak. I'd want out, as I've already stated. Jerry's teams are always extremely QB dependent. Mostly they have to play hero ball to win, due to major weaknesses in the roster.

 

[Kevinicus]

So we're supposed to pretend players are complete morons and aren't capable of understanding that if they take less there will be more available for other good players that can help the team win?

 

[Adreme]

Not accurate. Players are not all the same.

I mean we just saw every top 10 WR eligible reset the market. We just saw Trevor Lawrence, who isn’t even top 10, match the highest market deal. The only time the next deal doesn’t beat the one before it is when the definitive number 1 signs that offseason (like how no one is topping Jefferson this offseason).

 

[UncleRico]

I think you are right in the sense that many agents and GMs negotiate by comparing recent signed deals of comparable players. Top performers will get top of market pay.
Ceedee Lamb, for instance, deserves it.

I do think it becomes highly debatable when you are talking about the quarterback position, however. Just because one team sets a new market price by signing a player, it should not necessarily be viewed as a smart decision by the rest of the teams out there. Deshaun Watson is the perfect example. There was a disconnect there, and that led to a long delay before Lamar finally signed his deal. Yes I know his agent situation had a lot to do with that, but he was asking for a fully guaranteed contract because of what Watson just received. Baltimore was smart not to blink. 30 other NFL GM’s were very thankful that Baltimore did not do the same thing by confirming that type of contract as the new precedent.

I personally think Jerry Jones is smart if is his true intention is to let Dak Prescott play out this year. He is the leader of the offense, and the most important player on the team, and there is enough negative postseason data with him to make one hesitate. If Jerry’s thinking is that Prescott has had enough time in the league where postseason results should matter now, then I believe he is being smart. Awarding a young QB his first big extension is one thing. With a young, productive QB, it’s more logical to believe in future potential and continued growth and development. It becomes much harder to do that when the QB is older, and you have additional data.

I don’t believe he’s being smart in regards to CeeDee Lamb, however. Jerry probably could’ve saved 40 mil over 4 years by making Lamb the highest paid WR during the previous off-season when he first became eligible for an extension. He is not a QB, and had done enough to show he was worthy of it.

I think the whole CeeDee contract situation is even more telling that Jerry doesn’t want to resign Dak. Why give Lamb a blockbuster contract if you’re about to go into rebuild with a new QB? Jerry has messed up the timing bad.

 

[Beast_from_East]

With all the big talk about contracts for Dak, Cedee Lamb, and at some point Micah Parsons, there is so much misunderstanding and myth about market value, ”greed”, etc. The biggest myth so often thrown about is that the players are greedy and if they would just take a “team friendly” deal (in and of itself also a myth) we could sign more players. That’s just not a fair assessment of what the cap is and how it works.

In 2023, Sports Illustrated published a good article by Andrew Brandt, a former Green Bay VP of player personnel who has negotiated numerous NFL contracts. The article is designed to separate fact from fiction regarding what the cap actually is and isn’t. The article is free - here’s the link: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/17/nfl-business-football-explaining-salary-cap
It‘s a good read if you want to have a better view of how player salaries really impact the cap.

Just cherry picking a couple of key points from the SI article:

• “Cash is real money; the cap is simply accounting. Cash is what a player will actually receive in a contract. Cap is a mechanism of compliance, a way NFL teams account for a contract over the life of the deal.” What really matters in these player deals is the guaranteed amounts of cash and how long they can take to pay it out.
• “Elite players should take less to help the team. NO!” Brandt says the call for players to take less money is ridiculous. It is the owner’s responsibility to make the cap work, not the players.

One thought I’ve had for years: Whose job is it to manage the cap responsibly? Is it the players? Or the front office?

If our front office expects the players to help them manage the cap efficiently we are doomed. There are multiple NFL teams right now who are paying more stars at market value than the Cowboys and competing for championships.

The bickering over money at this point is silly. NFL stars are paid market value. Not a penny less. If you want them, you have to pay them market value. The Cowboys front office expecting their best players to take less than market value is crazy. If you want those players on your team, you pay them market value. If you don’t want to pay them market value, then you trade them or lose them in Free agency. That simple.

Exactly Bob, great post as usual.

Here is the bottom line.......................It is not Dak's, Lamb's, or Parson's responsibility to manage the Cowboy's salary cap.................If you dont pay them top of market, they will gladly play for somebody who will.

 

[Beast_from_East]

So, Tom Brady taking a team friendly deal to help the Patriot's FO acquire other talent is just a myth?

The point is Tom Brady took below market contracts because he wanted to, not because he "had to"..............In other words, it was never Brady's responsibility to help the Pats out with their cap.

The fact that his wife is worth more money than he is probably contributed to his desire for winning over money.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Just not true, Bob. We're not asking for team friendly deals, we're asking for non-maxed out contracts. Big difference. Almost no one is saying a player should play for chump change.

But there are no "maxed out" contracts in the NFL, this is not the NBA...................there are currently no "position caps by percentage of cap" in place in the NFL.

A player could be paid 15% of the cap or 30% of the cap................It all come down to what is defined as "market value"...............that is what was agreed to in the CBA.

Now if the owners want to change the system and implement max-contracts for all positions, they can make that change in the next CBA in the year 2032 (when the current CBA expires).

 

[Beast_from_East]

Why should Dallas Cowboys players not be able to sign for the most ever at their position?

There is absolutely no reason why they shouldnt if they have the stats and the accolades (probowls, all-pros, contender for MVP, Offensive Player of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, ect...)

The idea that if you wear the star on the side of your helmet that you have to accept below market value on your contract is just dumb, these players do not owe this organization anything more than their services in exchange for fair market compensation. Isn't that the entire basis of free market capitalism, you know the entire economic model the United States is built upon??? But this is all of sudden considered being greedy now???

 

[CWR]

And every single time a top 10 player comes up for an extension they end up at being the highest paid or right at it. Asking for anything less is asking for a player to take less because the owner hired people who don’t know accounting to run the books.

Yup and it's probably more exaggerated at qb.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I will try to explain a fairly complicated answer regarding market value.

When Mahomes signed his big contract in 2020 - a ten year, $450 million deal, he set the QB market at $45 mil a year or slightly below. (In 2021, Dak signed his 4 year, $160 million deal which averaged to be $40 mil per season) So at the time Mahomes signed his deal, he was asking for and received market value. Now his $45 mil a season average is below market.

So is he being “team friendly”? Only in the sense that he signed a ten year contract instead of 4-5 years which gave his team more flexibility in deferring his payments. He did that because he said he trusts the front office to be able to put a good team around him. I believe more than anything, that trust is what led to the ten year deal. It’s a trust not seen in most NFL team situations. Certainly not here in Dallas.

In 2023, the chiefs agreed to restructure Mahomes contract. This change sets Mahomes up to make $208.1 million between 2023 and '26. It was the largest deal over a four-season span in NFL history. And at the time, the team said they would revisit his deal in 2026.

So is Patrick Mahomes being very “team friendly” with his contract? Well with his restructure, he’s still making about what the QB market was paying in 2023. Not more but certainly not less.

That’s a long answer because it’s not really a simple “it is or it isn’t“ answer.

Thank you...I get you. Just not as straight forward as one might think. Got it!

 

[kskboys]

So we're supposed to pretend players are complete morons and aren't capable of understanding that if they take less there will be more available for other good players that can help the team win?

In many instances, that appears to be the case.

 

[kskboys]

There is absolutely no reason why they shouldnt if they have the stats and the accolades (probowls, all-pros, contender for MVP, Offensive Player of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, ect...)

The idea that if you wear the star on the side of your helmet that you have to accept below market value on your contract is just dumb, these players do not owe this organization anything more than their services in exchange for fair market compensation. Isn't that the entire basis of free market capitalism, you know the entire economic model the United States is built upon??? But this is all of sudden considered being greedy now???

Once again, players are not equal, so market value is a very grey term that doesn't mean much, and is used simply as an excuse to be greedy.

 

[kskboys]

But there are no "maxed out" contracts in the NFL, this is not the NBA...................there are currently no "position caps by percentage of cap" in place in the NFL.

A player could be paid 15% of the cap or 30% of the cap................It all come down to what is defined as "market value"...............that is what was agreed to in the CBA.

Now if the owners want to change the system and implement max-contracts for all positions, they can make that change in the next CBA in the year 2032 (when the current CBA expires).

That's being too literal.

There is also no "market value". If you're going to claim one grey term doesn't exist, then the term "market value" cannot exist either, as there currently are no set amounts that a player can earn per position.

Maxed out, in this case, merely means that the player squeezed every penny by holding out or by very long nasty contract negotiations.

 

[kskboys]

Winner winner chicken dinner, Jerry thinks it’s the offense that wins SBs and he’s been trying to recreate the triplets for 29 years.

He's so dumb that he has no clue that those SB winners were Defensive teams primarily, w/ a ball control O.

 

[kskboys]

I appreciate your view my friend. But sorry that’s not really true that Mahomes is “taking less”. It’s pretty easy to look up the way the chiefs have restructured his deal in 2023.

Mahomes took “market value” when he signed that big deal in 2020 and in 2023 that contract was also restructured. The idea that Mahomes is taking less is somewhat misleading.

Yes, it's not taking less, it's agreeing to a contract that the team can work w/ to be in super bowl contention. Dak did the exact opposite.

 

[kskboys]

NFL contracts are not fully guaranteed so that involves more risks for the players, players can be cut before the end of contracts. There is a certain amount of guaranteed money tied into the contract, but once that has been paid out there's no security in that contract for a player. Honoring a contract has to work both ways and it doesn't, as the NFL is currently constructed.

Absolutely not true. The owners honor the contract 100%. If a player wants a fully guaranteed contract, he can get it, he simply needs to agree to slightly less.

It's kinda funny, as you are stating that the guaranteed money is tied into the contract, but then you turn around and say the owners don't honor the contract. Contradicting statements.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Very well said.

When people call Jerry cheap, I have to admit I do wonder about...things. Being cheap is simply not part of the equation. However, people started saying it, then repeating it, now it's being said a ton. And it's just not accurate. Jerry is football dumb, contract dumb.

Nothing surprises me anymore. I just put an "organic" creamer in my coffee with all kinds of "all natural" superlatives on the container. Wife thinks its healthier than milk. So I look and its got 15 different ingredients including canola oil.......but its organic. If the FDA can lie and my wife repeat the lie about the health of my food and drinks, it sure as heck doesn't surprise me cowboy fans repeat salary cap lies. lol

 

[kskboys]

Would disagree. Market value is not maxed out value. If they sign Dak for 60 million a year then that becomes the market value. If they choose not to then that is there option and also the living with the consequences. Several NFL teams did that for years to jettison players when they became stars and therefore drafted almost every year in the top ten. Their choice.

If Dak and Lamb are traded before the season starts then a 5-12 season is very likely. Fans might say good so we can "rebuild" but that can as little as 3 years to as many as 10 years. Dallas can fit Dak, Lamb and Parsons in the cap and be competitive and a Super Bowl contender, sure depending on the contract structure. The cap is going to be a half billion in a few years and possibly sooner with the betting money that will role in with the new tv contracts. Can Dak win a Super Bowl? Better question is can the defense be a Super Bowl type defense because in the playoffs, defense still wins championships.

I don't see any reasoning as to why you're disagreeing.

Maxed out is a grey term. Market value is a grey term. If you don't like the term "maxed out" then suggest another term I should be using for getting every penny you can. It seems accurate and descriptive to me.

 

[kskboys]

Nothing surprises me anymore. I just put an "organic" creamer in my coffee with all kinds of "all natural" superlatives on the container. Wife thinks its healthier than milk. So I look and its got 15 different ingredients including canola oil.......but its organic. If the FDA can lie and my wife repeat the lie about the health of my food and drinks, it sure as heck doesn't surprise me cowboy fans repeat salary cap lies. lol

Boyhowdy, what a can of worms.

Since I was diagnosed w/ Type 2 diabetes 2-3 yrs ago, I've started reading more and more labels. At times it's simply disgusting what we are ingesting.