CFZ Salary cap myths and other misunderstandings of player pay

[Coogiguy03]

sad thing is the playoffs prove he is not as good as he thinks he is worth

he cares not about that, you would think he has enough money than he could ever spend right now! Take a team friendly deal

 

[TwentyOne]

With all the big talk about contracts for Dak, Cedee Lamb, and at some point Micah Parsons, there is so much misunderstanding and myth about market value, ”greed”, etc. The biggest myth so often thrown about is that the players are greedy and if they would just take a “team friendly” deal (in and of itself also a myth) we could sign more players. That’s just not a fair assessment of what the cap is and how it works.

In 2023, Sports Illustrated published a good article by Andrew Brandt, a former Green Bay VP of player personnel who has negotiated numerous NFL contracts. The article is designed to separate fact from fiction regarding what the cap actually is and isn’t. The article is free - here’s the link: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/17/nfl-business-football-explaining-salary-cap
It‘s a good read if you want to have a better view of how player salaries really impact the cap.

Just cherry picking a couple of key points from the SI article:

• “Cash is real money; the cap is simply accounting. Cash is what a player will actually receive in a contract. Cap is a mechanism of compliance, a way NFL teams account for a contract over the life of the deal.” What really matters in these player deals is the guaranteed amounts of cash and how long they can take to pay it out.
• “Elite players should take less to help the team. NO!” Brandt says the call for players to take less money is ridiculous. It is the owner’s responsibility to make the cap work, not the players.

One thought I’ve had for years: Whose job is it to manage the cap responsibly? Is it the players? Or the front office?

If our front office expects the players to help them manage the cap efficiently we are doomed. There are multiple NFL teams right now who are paying more stars at market value than the Cowboys and competing for championships.

The bickering over money at this point is silly. NFL stars are paid market value. Not a penny less. If you want them, you have to pay them market value. The Cowboys front office expecting their best players to take less than market value is crazy. If you want those players on your team, you pay them market value. If you don’t want to pay them market value, then you trade them or lose them in Free agency. That simple.

Recently a lot of people at this board use the term "greed". We certainly all think we have the same understanding of that term. But when i read your post for example, i get the feeling that some here dont really know what greed really means.


Here is the Definition of greed:


Greed: A selfish or excessive desire for more than is needed or deserved, especially of money, wealth, food, or other possessions.


As you can see greed has nothing to do for example with how much someone else, who is paying you, owns. Some here try to use that as an argument.

Players are greedy. Thats a fact by definition and not a myth. Whats more is that they try to quench out the last penny out of everything. That to me is not only greedy but overall a sign of character flaw.

Nonetheless there is no law that as an athlete you need to earn so much money during your career that you and your family can live without doing anything afterwards. Thats just a smart twist of reality to shape them as poor individuals.

Most of them have a college degree. Thats more than the usual u.s. citizen has. So they have, regardless of their sport career also a good education to work with. So they can find a job and work for their living. They are also young when they end their careers so age is not a factor.

But let the players get their money. Fundamentally i have a problem with the system that allows for such high salaries. After all those athletes dont do anything good for society. All they do is entertain. Its a fundamental flaw in the system when it values something like that way more than the work for others.

But that entertainment has such a big importance in your country is not the players fault. And if he is someone who does not question the System but says "i accept that and i will learn how to pull out the most for me" ? Well i can understand that.

Still i take myself the right to judge this kind of behavior: it lacks moral and ethical values. And with a system that supports that rather than humanistic values you see what you get: greed everywhere. Egocentric people that have even lost the understanding for imhuman bevahiour.


I can follow your argumentation about the owners and the way to try to put the responsibility on the shoulders of the players. And in my opinion you are right.

But thats the way business works. That does not justify their behavior. However if you know the game you wont fall for it.

 

[gimmesix]

So if Dak, Micah or CD is not signed then the team must not want the player for one reason or another.

I also agree with a previous post. The Joneses are not good at managing their waves and maximizing the window of opportunity. It’s like they’re scared to take the plunge, or too cheap, or too amateur. My guess is a combination of all 3. If the salary cap money issue is a myth then what is the problem here? Especially with Lamb at this moment sitting out. This FO is frustrating to root for and that doesn’t include the toxic culture of the team.

Where the hang-ups usually occur is in amount of years and guarantees. The lower the amount of years, the more difficult it is for the front office to spread out the hits or even automatically restructure after a year or two and lower the amounts that hit the first two or three years. The lower the guarantee, the easier it is for the front office to load the back end and then cut the player after two or three years without taking a big hit.

The average per year (which is what fans and media seems to get caught up in) is not nearly as important to front offices as length and guarantees. The main holdup with Dak's contract last time was that he wanted a shorter length. I believe some void years were added because of that, but the problem with those is you end up with a lot of dead cap during years when the player might no longer be on the team.

I don't think this front office would have any problem with making Dak and Lamb the highest paid player at their positions if they'd take longer-term contracts with less guaranteed money. However, the players generally want higher guarantees and shorter contracts (so they can get another big one in a few years, like Dak is trying to do).

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

NFL contracts are not fully guaranteed so that involves more risks for the players, players can be cut before the end of contracts. There is a certain amount of guaranteed money tied into the contract, but once that has been paid out there's no security in that contract for a player. Honoring a contract has to work both ways and it doesn't, as the NFL is currently constructed.

So you hold the NFL owners accountable but not the players?

Which players have had their contract terminated?

What players have HELD OUT ignoring their contracts.

Since you brought it up...I'd like to know. Who honors the contracts most? Sincerely asking ..since you know more than me about it.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I appreciate your view my friend. But sorry that’s not really true that Mahomes is “taking less”. It’s pretty easy to look up the way the chiefs have restructured his deal in 2023.

Mahomes took “market value” when he signed that big deal in 2020 and in 2023 that contract was also restructured. The idea that Mahomes is taking less is somewhat misleading.

can you clarify "somewhat misleading"? It either IS...or isn't.

And I am ALL FOR context. So ...do tell.

 

[doomsday9084]

With all the big talk about contracts for Dak, Cedee Lamb, and at some point Micah Parsons, there is so much misunderstanding and myth about market value, ”greed”, etc. The biggest myth so often thrown about is that the players are greedy and if they would just take a “team friendly” deal (in and of itself also a myth) we could sign more players. That’s just not a fair assessment of what the cap is and how it works.

In 2023, Sports Illustrated published a good article by Andrew Brandt, a former Green Bay VP of player personnel who has negotiated numerous NFL contracts. The article is designed to separate fact from fiction regarding what the cap actually is and isn’t. The article is free - here’s the link: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/17/nfl-business-football-explaining-salary-cap
It‘s a good read if you want to have a better view of how player salaries really impact the cap.

Just cherry picking a couple of key points from the SI article:

• “Cash is real money; the cap is simply accounting. Cash is what a player will actually receive in a contract. Cap is a mechanism of compliance, a way NFL teams account for a contract over the life of the deal.” What really matters in these player deals is the guaranteed amounts of cash and how long they can take to pay it out.
• “Elite players should take less to help the team. NO!” Brandt says the call for players to take less money is ridiculous. It is the owner’s responsibility to make the cap work, not the players.

One thought I’ve had for years: Whose job is it to manage the cap responsibly? Is it the players? Or the front office?

If our front office expects the players to help them manage the cap efficiently we are doomed. There are multiple NFL teams right now who are paying more stars at market value than the Cowboys and competing for championships.

The bickering over money at this point is silly. NFL stars are paid market value. Not a penny less. If you want them, you have to pay them market value. The Cowboys front office expecting their best players to take less than market value is crazy. If you want those players on your team, you pay them market value. If you don’t want to pay them market value, then you trade them or lose them in Free agency. That simple.

Let's be honest, if a team paid all of its players market value they would end up being 9-8.

The way you win in the NFL is to get players to perform at a level greater than their pay. Or more specifically, cap value. Teams do that by distributing signing bonuses over long contracts and then backloading salary. In the short term, you get a player who ostensibly should be playing at a level above their cap value. That levels itself out though. Towards the end of the contract, players are playing at less than their cap value.

When we see players getting these massive deals on an average basis, its really skewed.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/72380/trevor-lawrence
Lawrence:
Year 1 15m
Year 2 17m
Year 3 24m
Year 4 35m
Year 5 47m
Year 6 79m
Year 7 75m
Void years 28m

So, the Jags got a QB at a relative bargain for about 4 years and then he blows up their cap.

Dak is in the "blow up the cap" phase of his deal and no one really wants to admit it.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

NFL contracts are not fully guaranteed so that involves more risks for the players, players can be cut before the end of contracts. There is a certain amount of guaranteed money tied into the contract, but once that has been paid out there's no security in that contract for a player. Honoring a contract has to work both ways and it doesn't, as the NFL is currently constructed.

Hence my call for the NFL to step in...an reconstruct this messy contract situation.

 

[plymkr]

I don't think this front office would have any problem with making Dak and Lamb the highest paid player at their positions if they'd take longer-term contracts with less guaranteed money. However, the players generally want higher guarantees and shorter contracts (so they can get another big one in a few years, like Dak is trying to do).

100% agree. I think both would be signed if they would agree to 5 or more years. I wonder if Dak is wanting a 1-3 year deal. I hope at some point the behind the scenes negotiations come to light whether or not we sign them or not cuz I’m real curious what the sticking points are.

 

[Roadtrip635]

So you hold the NFL owners accountable but not the players?

Which players have had their contract terminated?

What players have HELD OUT ignoring their contracts.

Since you brought it up...I'd like to know. Who honors the contracts most? Sincerely asking ..since you know more than me about it.

Both sides should, but players get cut all the time before the end of their contracts and don't get anything unless there was any guaranteed money. Gallup, Zeke, LVE, among many others have been cut before the end of their contracts. Players hold up their end of contracts more, because they don't have much of a choice, but NFL owners can cut them at anytime. Every team does it, multiple times a season. For a NFL team, contracts are virtually meaningless unless there is guaranteed money remaining.

 

[Bobhaze]

can you clarify "somewhat misleading"? It either IS...or isn't.

And I am ALL FOR context. So ...do tell.

I will try to explain a fairly complicated answer regarding market value.

When Mahomes signed his big contract in 2020 - a ten year, $450 million deal, he set the QB market at $45 mil a year or slightly below. (In 2021, Dak signed his 4 year, $160 million deal which averaged to be $40 mil per season) So at the time Mahomes signed his deal, he was asking for and received market value. Now his $45 mil a season average is below market.

So is he being “team friendly”? Only in the sense that he signed a ten year contract instead of 4-5 years which gave his team more flexibility in deferring his payments. He did that because he said he trusts the front office to be able to put a good team around him. I believe more than anything, that trust is what led to the ten year deal. It’s a trust not seen in most NFL team situations. Certainly not here in Dallas.

In 2023, the chiefs agreed to restructure Mahomes contract. This change sets Mahomes up to make $208.1 million between 2023 and '26. It was the largest deal over a four-season span in NFL history. And at the time, the team said they would revisit his deal in 2026.

So is Patrick Mahomes being very “team friendly” with his contract? Well with his restructure, he’s still making about what the QB market was paying in 2023. Not more but certainly not less.

That’s a long answer because it’s not really a simple “it is or it isn’t“ answer.

 

[kskboys]

Let's be honest, if a team paid all of its players market value they would end up being 9-8.

The way you win in the NFL is to get players to perform at a level greater than their pay. Or more specifically, cap value. Teams do that by distributing signing bonuses over long contracts and then backloading salary. In the short term, you get a player who ostensibly should be playing at a level above their cap value. That levels itself out though. Towards the end of the contract, players are playing at less than their cap value.

When we see players getting these massive deals on an average basis, its really skewed.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/72380/trevor-lawrence
Lawrence:
Year 1 15m
Year 2 17m
Year 3 24m
Year 4 35m
Year 5 47m
Year 6 79m
Year 7 75m
Void years 28m

So, the Jags got a QB at a relative bargain for about 4 years and then he blows up their cap.

Dak is in the "blow up the cap" phase of his deal and no one really wants to admit it.

Notice how the first 4-5 years are affordable. That's what a QB does who wants to win. Forcing a 4 yr deal on a team is a selfish screw you move.

 

[kskboys]

Both sides should, but players get cut all the time before the end of their contracts and don't get anything unless there was any guaranteed money. Gallup, Zeke, LVE, among many others have been cut before the end of their contracts. Players hold up their end of contracts more, because they don't have much of a choice, but NFL owners can cut them at anytime. Every team does it, multiple times a season. For a NFL team, contracts are virtually meaningless unless there is guaranteed money remaining.

Owners honor the contracts 100%.

Players who are holding out are honoring their contract 0%.

Honestly, how'd you come up w/ this strange way of thinking? It's just weird.

If a player wants more guaranteed money, all he has to do is take slightly less.

 

[kskboys]

I will try to explain a fairly complicated answer regarding market value.

When Mahomes signed his big contract in 2020 - a ten year, $450 million deal, he set the QB market at $45 mil a year or slightly below. (In 2021, Dak signed his 4 year, $160 million deal which averaged to be $40 mil per season) So at the time Mahomes signed his deal, he was asking for and received market value. Now his $45 mil a season average is below market.

So is he being “team friendly”? Only in the sense that he signed a ten year contract instead of 4-5 years which gave his team more flexibility in deferring his payments. He did that because he said he trusts the front office to be able to put a good team around him. I believe more than anything, that trust is what led to the ten year deal. It’s a trust not seen in most NFL team situations. Certainly not here in Dallas.

In 2023, the chiefs agreed to restructure Mahomes contract. This change sets Mahomes up to make $208.1 million between 2023 and '26. It was the largest deal over a four-season span in NFL history. And at the time, the team said they would revisit his deal in 2026.

So is Patrick Mahomes being very “team friendly” with his contract? Well with his restructure, he’s still making about what the QB market was paying in 2023. Not more but certainly not less.

That’s a long answer because it’s not really a simple “it is or it isn’t“ answer.

Because he went long term and is willing to restructure as needed, he absolutely signed a team friendly contract.

 

[Bobhaze]

Notice how the first 4-5 years are affordable. That's what a QB does who wants to win. Forcing a 4 yr deal on a team is a selfish screw you move.

I don’t completely disagree with you Kev. But a lot of QBs do the 4 year deal vs the 5 year deal solely based on a lack of trust. The QB must feel trust that the team’s front office will be willing and able to put a good enough team around them. Mahomes said he signed his longer contract because he trusts the chiefs FO to be able to build a team around him. And they have.

It’s funny because QBs get paid way more than they should just because of the scarcity of QB talent. Even an above average QB makes huge money today because of the basic economic theory of supply and demand. A short supply of talent increases the demand, thus the high pay.

All of this high pay to QBs creates the very false notion that the QB is everything. We have several fans on this forum who honestly believe all you need is a great QB and SB wins will follow. I know you don’t believe that and neither do I.

But I still firmly believe that the bottom line responsibility to draft, develop, and strategically manage a quality roster is 100% the responsibility of the team’s front office, not the players. The players responsibility is play at their highest level, take coaching and work within the team’s structure. It’s is not a player’s responsibility to “help” a team manage its own salary cap.

 

[Bobhaze]

Because he went long term and is willing to restructure as needed, he absolutely signed a team friendly contract.

He has twice been paid at market rates. In 2020, he was paid $45 mil per season. That was the highest QB pay at the time. He did not take less. In 2023, he worked a restructure which then set his annual pay at $52 mil per season. It will be revisted again in 2026.

Mahomes is working with the chiefs long term because he trusts them to build a good roster around him. If you were playing QB for the Cowboys would you trust this front office is fully committed to being aggressive in acquiring talent to be placed around you as QB? I wouldn’t.

 

[kskboys]

I don’t completely disagree with you Kev. But a lot of QBs do the 4 year deal vs the 5 year deal solely based on a lack of trust. The QB must feel trust that the team’s front office will be willing and able to put a good enough team around them. Mahomes said he signed his longer contract because he trusts the chiefs FO to be able to build a team around him. And they have.

It’s funny because QBs get paid way more than they should just because of the scarcity of QB talent. Even an above average QB makes huge money today because of the basic economic theory of supply and demand. A short supply of talent increases the demand, thus the high pay.

All of this high pay to QBs creates the very false notion that the QB is everything. We have several fans on this forum who honestly believe all you need is a great QB and SB wins will follow. I know you don’t believe that and neither do I.

But I still firmly believe that the bottom line responsibility to draft, develop, and strategically manage a quality roster is 100% the responsibility of the team’s front office, not the players. The players responsibility is play at their highest level, take coaching and work within the team’s structure. It’s is not a player’s responsibility to “help” a team manage its own salary cap.

Agree w/ everything but your last sentence.

The team is everyone's responsibility. Mahomes did just that, thought about the roster and the team when he signed his contract and then when he renegotiated. Brady did it several times.

 

[kskboys]

He has twice been paid at market rates. In 2020, he was paid $45 mil per season. That was the highest QB pay at the time. He did not take less. In 2023, he worked a restructure which then set his annual pay at $52 mil per season. It will be revisted again in 2026.

Mahomes is working with the chiefs long term because he trusts them to build a good roster around him. If you were playing QB for the Cowboys would you trust this front office is fully committed to being aggressive in acquiring talent to be placed around you as QB? I wouldn’t.

Nope, I'd get out, and wouldn't blame Dak if that's what he wants.

 

[Adreme]

My interpretation of max is highest at the position.

And every single time a top 10 player comes up for an extension they end up at being the highest paid or right at it. Asking for anything less is asking for a player to take less because the owner hired people who don’t know accounting to run the books.

 

[Praxit]

So, Tom Brady taking a team friendly deal to help the Patriot's FO acquire other talent is just a myth?

...that's what I was going to reiterate on. Brady was one of first players to actually mind the term "Team Friendly" .

My guess is how they restructure around clauses, so that they are able to sign more players.

 

[Bobhaze]

Agree w/ everything but your last sentence.

The team is everyone's responsibility. Mahomes did just that, thought about the roster and the team when he signed his contract and then when he renegotiated. Brady did it several times.

Well….1. Brady’s famous “team friendly” deals in NE are completely misleading IMO. The way Belechick drafted and managed that team from 2004-2017 was brilliant. He drafted loads of cheap but talented defensive talent and cut or traded several really good players to avoid paying them. Brady completely trusted that FO to give him a great D year after year. When he left for Tampa he took market money.

2. If the Cowboys were any good at building a top notch roster and I was a QB here, I would sign a 5 year deal. But they suck at it. So why should any QB who wants a ring think signing here at top market money this FO will support them or even know how.

If I were Dak, I would play out this year and move on. He’s not a top 5 QB but he’s good enough to win some playoff games with the right supporting cast. Why would any QB think, “Yeah I will risk losing my value to help this team get more talent“ when this FO couldn’t do it when Dak and Zeke were still in rookie deals.